Firearms

[Guest -V-]

I'd sat a .22lr pistol that is scoped (2x or so ) for taking small game, and a .308 rifle for most other things. My go-to is a DPMS LR308, so it covers both the hunting, sniping, and general purpose semi-auto rifle category all at once. Plus, .308 can be found in any wal-mart or hunting-related store. It is one of the most common hunting calibers out there, so ammo should be relatively easy to scrounge up.

In all honesty, I would also consider a .177 pellet gun over the .22lr, since I could still harvest the same small game, but ammunition situation suddenly becomes much less complicated. Food for thought...

I think one of the greatest "force multipliers" one can have is a working vehicle with enough gas to go at least 600 miles over off-road conditions. If things die down in a good way, return home, and recap your extended camping trip, if things keep going south, barter, steal, or raid what you need and be out of dodge before anyone can retaliate.

[Oh Shoot]

... steal, or raid what you need and be out of dodge before anyone can retaliate.

What a humanitarian prepper!

With luck you might steal from one of us, and your survival plans are nipped in the bud -- permanently.

- OS

[Guest -V-]

With human nature what it is, I think it is beneficial to acknowledge that when push comes to shove in a long-term scenario (complete social breakdown, basically a mad-max type scenario) the niceties of modern society that we are used to begin to be replaced by the barbarism of bygone eras. The sense of compassion for "those poor hungry liberal suburbanites" becomes replaced with the same animal instinct that a predator has for its prey. Survival is a war without end, and war has no rules.

[Oh Shoot]

With human nature what it is, I think it is beneficial to acknowledge that when push comes to shove in a long-term scenario (complete social breakdown, basically a mad-max type scenario) the niceties of modern society that we are used to begin to be replaced by the barbarism of bygone eras. The sense of compassion for "those poor hungry liberal suburbanites" becomes replaced with the same animal instinct that a predator has for its prey. Survival is a war without end, and war has no rules.

Agreed.

That's why you'd best be very careful about who you steal from.

Your odds are much worse in SHTF.

- OS

[Moped]

In all honesty, I would also consider a .177 pellet gun over the .22lr, since I could still harvest the same small game, but ammunition situation suddenly becomes much less complicated. Food for thought...

I think one of the greatest "force multipliers" one can have is a working vehicle with enough gas to go at least 600 miles over off-road conditions. If things die down in a good way, return home, and recap your extended camping trip, if things keep going south, barter, steal, or raid what you need and be out of dodge before anyone can retaliate.

You can currently purchase a Crosman Phantom 1200 .177 cal single stroke air rifle at Wally World for $80. It is supposed to rated at 1000fps with regular pellets and 1200 fps with match grade pellets. Has a Synthetic stock. For a little more you can have one with a wood stock and a scope. I think it runs around $115 or so. I've been real tempted to get one. Might happen after christmas! There are several reviews here.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Crosman Phantom 1200 FPS .177 Caliber Break Barrel Air Rifle with Adjustable Trigger and Synthetic Stock

I agree also about the car. I'd add one thing though. We don't know what sort of event might occur, but the chances of some sort of Electro Magnetic Pulse seem to me to be growing every year. You might want to consider a vehicle that is pre-electronic ignition (think 60's or 70's vintage). EMP will make it a useless pile of metal, plastic and rubber otherwise.

[robin48]

As brutal as it sounds, V has a point. I will do whatever it takes to ensure my family is ok.

[Oh Shoot]

As brutal as it sounds, V has a point. I will do whatever it takes to ensure my family is ok.

As long as you realize that everyone else will be, also.

In normal society, you can't snuff a thief unless he's in your home.

In a prolonged SHTF situation, that little detail of societal law disappears.

After just a short period of lawlessness, most folks who still have assets worth protecting, WILL protect them, and one's odds of surviving as a independent thief or raider will go steadily downhill.

- OS

[robin48]

i fully understand that, and I pray it never comes to that as it would be hard for me to live with. Luckily i have a coalition of friends who have banded to gether into a tightly knit group of preppers.

[Guest -V-]

Excellent points all around. The detail that I am surprised that was latched on to so hard was the steal or raid what is needed. I am confident that when push comes to shove any one of us will do whatever it takes to keep their family safe and fed. Its human nature, or innate evolutionary programing, if you prefer.

But, as any crafty predator knows, it is best to take easy prey, and the easiest prey is taken en-mass even right now, namely the economic prey - hence why barter is my first option. If things get real tough, and its do or die, yes, stealing and raiding become very viable options. I am not saying that the gun should be the first choice, but I keeping in mind that the gun is a viable choice.

One point that was brought up is that .22lr's might make for excellent barter currency. Protection and Hunting tools will be high on many people's lists of "needs" during a break-down. .22's are compact and a lot of 'em can be carried. You can use 'em to get food, or you can use them to get goods from other people. Seems like a prudent thing to have.

As moped brought up regarding vehicles, an EMP-proof design is best. I do not know the exact in's and outs, but a for me a pre 1990's toyota 4x4 with a 2.4L R22e engine seems like an excellent choice. That engine runs on simple electronics so an EMP/Solar flare type disaster should have no effect on it. It seems to have enough mobility for most of east Tennessee, enough fuel economy to stretch your range. With as many that are still on the road, there should theoretically be high availability of replacement parts.

As for the crossman .177 pellet rifle: Thats the exact one that I have. Its a very handy and light rifle. The only current weakness is the plastic front and rear sights. Replace those with aluminum, and it would be perfect. Taking a squirrel or a rabbit with it is entirely do-able. I'm sure .177 cal molds can be purchased or made. Since all that is needed there is soft lead, wheel weights could be melted down to make hundreds if not thousands of rounds of .177 ammo. I also know they make .22 cal pellet rifles, but I have no experience with them, or their terminal effectiveness. If anyone can offer some input, it would be much appreciated.

The other up-side to that, is I doubt there will be a mass-harvest of squirrels and other small prey. I recall an older gentleman mentioning that within a few years of the great depression, deer populations became very sparse due to over-harvest by hunters. With as many guns in the area as we have, I wouldn't be surprised if deer populations become depleted within the first year. Squirrel and Rabbit populations, on the other hand, seem much more sustainable. Plus with very limited/no electricity, preserving food becomes an issue. A couple of rabbits or a squirrels can be harvested each day and eaten fresh. Unless you have a large group, I doubt any of us could eat an entire deer in a single day.

[Guest sL1k]

well along with packing many of the same things you guys are a couple people seem to leave out the good ole bow and arrow, and black powder/lead balls. a jug of pyrodex goes a long way. arrows can be reused, lead is easy to replenish but is heavy its a good fall back incase ammo runs low.

[robin48]

well along with packing many of the same things you guys are a couple people seem to leave out the good ole bow and arrow, and black powder/lead balls. a jug of pyrodex goes a long way. arrows can be reused, lead is easy to replenish but is heavy its a good fall back incase ammo runs low.

Good points. A crossbow is on my list

[Punisher84]

As long as you realize that everyone else will be, also.

In normal society, you can't snuff a thief unless he's in your home.

In a prolonged SHTF situation, that little detail of societal law disappears.

After just a short period of lawlessness, most folks who still have assets worth protecting, WILL protect them, and one's odds of surviving as a independent thief or raider will go steadily downhill.

- OS

You're assuming that most of these sheeple will actually do anything other than cry and starve to death. I wouldn't take from another family, but abandoned possessions are fair game if you're talking a true end of the world situation.

[Oh Shoot]

You're assuming that most of these sheeple will actually do anything other than cry and starve to death. I wouldn't take from another family, but abandoned possessions are fair game if you're talking a true end of the world situation.

Scavenging is one thing. -V- entered into the arena of raiding.

Big diff, whether you want to consider morals or more importantly, practical odds for success.

- OS

[Jonnin]

A 9mm carbine and pistol set, with a solid 1000 rounds of ammo or so, cheap hollowpoints. A 22 is ok for hunting small game but you have hostile people and larger game to consider. A 9mm round out of a long barrel is pretty potent.

[Moped]

No sure I would go that route anymore. Since I first started this thread, I've re-evaluated my thinking on firearms. First of all, if your on the move, a 1000 rounds of 9mm is going to get REAL heavy quick. If your on foot, your not going to be able to carry that much around. If your in a vehicle, a 1000 rounds takes up a lot of space that might be better served for say a 5 gallon jug of water or food or maybe a large box of nails or something else that's critical to survival. That's one thing that makes the .22 so nice. You can carry a lot rounds without having a lot of weight or taking up critical space that would be better used for something more important.

If your not on the move, you need to ask yourself, is 9mm enough for defense or hunting? If I were hunkered down, I think I'd go toward a true rifle round like .223, 30/30, .308, 7.62x39 or 30-06. I'd want something that would reach out and touch something at a greater distance than a 100 yards. I probably wouldn't have a bunch of pistol ammunition. I'd want a lot of rifle rounds, though. Thousands if I were hunkered down, in fact. I'd also have a reloader, powder, bullets and primers. And thousands and thousands of rounds of .22lr and several rifles to rifles to shoot them with.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Moped

[Guest bubruins]

I've browsed through but I don't think anyone has mentioned the idea of a Ruger Charger. I would think that it would be a great SHTF weapon as it's .22lr, small for it's performance, can have high-capacity magazines, and is generally pretty reliable. That - and they're relatively cheap - typically around $300-350 with a red-dot. They mount up with bipods nicely and they supposedly have accuracy to 50 yards that surpasses many .22 rifles. Thoughts?

[Oh Shoot]

I've always felt the Charger has few of the advantages of a pistol or a rifle.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Being an owner of a Charger I can say that accuracy is in line with a factory 10/22, that is nothing to great. I went through mine and set back the barrel to get a better chamber and that helped immensely as did having the bolt headspaced. I also did the trigger to get a nice crisp and light trigger. Now it is as accurate as most rifles, maybe a bit better but not by much. In order to get the msot out of it you must shoot it off the bags.

As far as the Charger itself being useful. I thought I had to have one so I bought one. Once I got it home I realized that it is too big to be handy and too small to make it as accurate as a rifle. The only advantage it has is the high capacity mags but those are hit and miss making it a mute point. They are fun but there are plenty of other better choices out there. I would rather have a some sort of 22 pistol as they are handier and probably just as accurate as the Charger.

Here are some pictures of my "Tactical Charger":

I have since put it back to the factory setup because even though the tactical version was fun it left me wanting in the accuracy department.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

The 9mm thought was a compromise, its ammo is heavy but it will do the job. I do not want to be up against a family armed with deer rifles and 45s with just a 22 rifle. If its just hunting, the 22 is ok, though I doubt I could take a deer with it, or stop an angry bear. If stationary, anything goes as you said, this would be a mobile gun. Likely I would stash some of the ammo though, and a 22 backup, probably a target pistol, would be sweet.

[Guest RiseMechanical]

It's still a sweet looking charger! I would have to agree with you about not being very handy though. They are awesome from the bench but for practicality, I'd have to go with a 10/22. I have a tack driving Mark III now... and it's purdy!

[Mason]

If I have a need to "Bug Out" I will have a .22 LR semiauto rifle and a .45 ACP semiauto pistol with me. That is the very minimum for food and security. If we are talking short-term, I will also have eather a pump shotgun or a high powered rifle.

As others have stated, my main goal is to get home and stay there in any type of emergency that does not consume my home. If my house is lost my first priority is to find a new home with basic shelter, stored food, security, and privacy.

Many tools have alot more value than a gun in the long-run.

[Guest RiseMechanical]

Agreed. In the short run, they may help us live long enough to use the less lethal tools. I believe that if/when the SHTF, there is a good chance that there will be many more firearms available than people to operate them. In the long run, I'd imagine that running out of ammo will be a problem long before running out of guns.

[Guest pontiac_fiero_g]

if it truly is a long term survival situation and i want food then my choice is a slingshot, easy to use, im decent accurate, and ammo is literally unlimited. now if i have time to go home before i go underground ill grab my remmington vantage .177 break barrel pellet rifle because it has more than enough power to take most small game in my area, 250 pellets fit in the same space as a can of dip, and ive taken squirrel from 40 yards with open sights and even though it cant be used to kill a human i think it would definatly deter somebody if you put an 8gr hollowpoint pellet 6inches into their chest.

in a survival situation im hoping to not be seen i dont plan on intentionally staying out in the open near anybody but close friends and family.

[Mike.357]

In the long run, I'd imagine that running out of ammo will be a problem long before running out of guns.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, gotta be prepared

[Guest ARMEDMARINE]

Taking the .22 and a hangun at the minimum