New IDPA rule book is out

[PC7]

http://www.idpa.com/misc/

Preliminary version, comment period until Dec 3.

New rules supposed to go in effect 1 Jan

[DMark]

Damn It - - - Its LtCol Jeff Cooper...., NOT Colonel Jeff Cooper!  (page 3). 

- Well it looks like the gamers are finally going to get their "fault lines" for cover (Visible Cover Reference Lines) with Rule 3.5.4.  Trust this will let us SOs focus on muzzle and trigger fingers more.

- I've come to the realization after nearly 20 years for SOing IDPA that Air Gunning should be allowed for safety reasons.  Watching new shooters "point" in the wrong direction (as in breaking the 180 rule) has educated me that air gunning is a good thing.  Besides, experienced shooters are already getting sight pictures with their eyes as they do their walk through, you can watch their heads move as they plan their shot placements.  Rule 3.3.2 should be removed. 

- Yipeeeeeee, with new Rule 4 the scores will align with the numbers on the target (1 down = 1 second added, etc., etc).  This was the original intent when Larry Vickers designed the targets...., but Bill Wilson changed the scoring after the targets were copyrighted and since Bill was the founder putting up the money he was first among equals.  Also this will help us liberal arts majors since that old .5 second deal was hard to count up using our fingers and toes.

- Good News - - - The Colt Commander (the original compact carry) is now legal in CCP.  Rule 8.2.4.1.3 has changed the barrel length to 4.375 inch or less.

- Good News/Bad News - - - Rule 8.2.7  Pistol Caliber Carbine - GOOD!  Rule 8.2.7.1.4  PCC Minimum barrel length of 10 inches - BAD!  Where did 10 inches come from?  Did anybody at IDPA HQ take the trouble to see what PCC barrels lengths are out there?  A call to PSA would have informed them that 8 inch and under are some of their best sellers.  What about the MP5 worshippers (like 173rdABN)?  The longest barrel HK makes for a MP5 is 8.9 inches.

OK , those are just some of my comments after a quick review, and yes I will forward these to the rulebook review.

    

 

[jumprun13k]

Will the Colt Commander fit in the new smaller box?

[jumprun13k]

3.5 & 3.6 Cover, Cover and Reloads – Absolutely love the new cover rules. Especially the cover & reloads.

4 Scoring Rules – I understand that the intent of going to 1 second per point down is to emphasize accuracy. My concern is that this will not change much at the upper ends of competition, but it will widen the gap between the middle level and the upper. Which will create frustration for those shooters that are the real backbone of the sport.

4.2 Shooters must join IDPA after their 3^rd match. At the local level nobody wants to turn someone away. I am not sure this is really enforceable. At the same time, IDPA needs the revenue from membership dues. Not sure what the answer is.

8.1.7.3 (8.2.2.2.20, 8.2.3.2.20) – Heavy/Cone/Bull barrels are getting more prevalent, especially on 1911s. If the pistol makes weight and fits in the box, the length of the barrel should not be an issue in ESP and CDP.

8.2.2.3.1 (8.2.3.3.1) – As above, if the pistol makes weight and fits in the box the length of the dust cover should not matter.

8.2.3.1.2 – Stop limiting it to 45 ACP. 40 at 165 PF is perfectly viable

8.2.4.1.3 – Barrel length of 4.375” is too long. Should be 4” or less.

8.2.4.1.5 – Box dimensions exclude several popular guns that are the definition of PCC.

8.2.7 - PCC but no carry optics?

 

So here is an interesting thought

6.1 says that a stage description cannot override the rulebook

3.6.2 says you may reload while moving as long as you are not exposed to any unengaged targets

9.9.8 is the stage description for Stage 3 of the classifier:

String 1 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds total in the firearm at P4. Draw and fire 2 shots at each target using from either side of the barricade, re-load from slide-lock, advance to barrels at the 15-yard line (P5) and fire 2 shots at each target using cover shooting inside of the barrels on either side.

String 2 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds total in the firearm at P5. Draw and fire 2 shots at each target using cover from inside of the barrels, re-load from slide-lock move to the opposite barrels and fire 2 shots at each target using cover from inside the barrels

So, according to the rulebook, since I have engaged those targets from the first position, I can reload on the move to the second position. Is that right?

[DMark]

4 hours ago, jumprun13k said:

Will the Colt Commander fit in the new smaller box?

7 3/4 x 5 3/8 x 1 3/8.

Yup...., but just barely.  Might have to go with a Wilson Combat Concealment Grip Safety just to make sure. 

Hmmmmm...., funny how a WC part would make that work. 

[jumprun13k]

Saw a post on FB where it did not fit unless they removed the mag.

[DMark]

2 minutes ago, jumprun13k said:

Saw a post on FB where it did not fit unless they removed the mag.

My Colt will fit with the OEM flat welded based mag, won't fit with my CMC or WC mags.  I can see where having a taller rear sight and/or an different grip safety with a longer extended beavertail would be a problem. 

Of course a few minutes with a Dremel can take care of all of those issues! 

[ROCKRIVERAR15]

International DEFENSE PISTOL Association. Short rifle before carry optic?

Edited November 16, 2016 by ROCKRIVERAR15

[Cruel Hand Luke]

The way I read it was the fault lines were for standards stages only....see 6.3.1

 

So apparently a "Fault Line" and a "visual reference line" are 2 different things.....

Edited November 16, 2016 by Cruel Hand Luke

[dcloudy777]

1 point / 1 second = IDPA is basically bullseye with goofy vests.   

[DMark]

12 hours ago, dcloudy777 said:

1 point / 1 second = IDPA is basically bullseye with goofy vests.   

Well not all of us use a goofy vest...... 

Also don't recall ever having to move around back when I shot Bullseye.  However that was a long, long time ago and my Master qualification card is no longer current so things might be different now.

Edited November 17, 2016 by DMark

[deerslayer]

"All comments, reviews, and suggestions should be sent to Comments@idpa.com. Be sure to include your IDPA number as those without will not be reviewed."

As if they will actually review suggestions...

Edited November 17, 2016 by deerslayer

[dcloudy777]

1 hour ago, DMark said:

Well not all of us use a goody vest...... 

Also don't recall ever having to move around back when I shot Bullseye.  However that was a long, long time ago and my Master qualification card is no longer current so things might be different now.

Do they move in IDPA?  They tell you where to stand and what order to shoot targets in.... 

 

 

[GhostDog]

Changing the rules every year is working out so well for the NFL, I can see why IDPA would do the same (sarcasm).

[dcloudy777]

28 minutes ago, GhostDog said:

Changing the rules every year is working out so well for the NFL, I can see why IDPA would do the same (sarcasm).

The first IDPA rule set back in 1996 was excellent.  Literally every new revision has made the game worse, not better.

[deerslayer]

I am still trying to figure out what was wrong with the 2012 rules. 

[chuckstur]

....and they left in the rule about not dropping an empty magazine unless you have one in the pipe!  As if anyone carries a pocket full of loose ammunition to reload a magazine.  What difference, at this point, does it make anyway?

[chuckstur]

....and they left in the rule about not dropping an empty magazine unless you have one in the pipe!  As if anyone carries a pocket full of loose ammunition to reload a magazine.  What difference, at this point, does it make anyway?

[Spiffy]

On 11/16/2016 at 10:09 PM, deerslayer said:

"All comments, reviews, and suggestions should be sent to Comments@idpa.com. Be sure to include your IDPA number as those without will not be reviewed."

As if they will actually review suggestions...

I am certain they will carry as much weight this time as they did the last time.

[Spiffy]

On 11/18/2016 at 3:22 PM, chuckstur said:

....and they left in the rule about not dropping an empty magazine unless you have one in the pipe!  As if anyone carries a pocket full of loose ammunition to reload a magazine.  What difference, at this point, does it make anyway?

Too much like USPSA with the dropping of mags willy nilly...........but PCC is perfectly fine.

[chances R]

On 11/18/2016 at 3:23 PM, chuckstur said:

....and they left in the rule about not dropping an empty magazine unless you have one in the pipe!  As if anyone carries a pocket full of loose ammunition to reload a magazine.  What difference, at this point, does it make anyway?

Agree......would seem to be covered by simply sticking to the 'no rounds left behind'.  Dropping an empty mag is dropping an empty mag.

[BrasilNuts]

12 hours ago, chances R said:

Agree......would seem to be covered by simply sticking to the 'no rounds left behind'.  Dropping an empty mag is dropping an empty mag.

Pffffffft..... Shows what you know, droppin' a empty mag will get you killed in the streets bruh!

[GhostDog]

Not to hijack (but I guess I might be) but... does anyone know if Meprolight FT Bullseye sights would be IDPA legal. I can't tell based on the ambiguously written rules and am afraid getting an answer from Arkansas is all but impossible.

Edited November 27, 2016 by GhostDog

[chances R]

5 hours ago, BrasilNuts said:

Pffffffft..... Shows what you know, droppin' a empty mag will get you killed in the streets bruh!

Ummmmm.......and I always thought it was an empty gun that would get you killed.  The ballistic coefficient of an empty mag is not very good.

[BrasilNuts]

4 hours ago, chances R said:

Ummmmm.......and I always thought it was an empty gun that would get you killed.  The ballistic coefficient of an empty mag is not very good.

Wow, I thought I laced that so thick with sarcasm that it would be clear to anyone it was a joke.

Empty guns don't get you killed, bad decisions before your gun runs out of pew pew gets you killed.