Trump / HPA

[btq96r]

21 hours ago, btq96r said:

H.R.367 - To provide that silencers be treated the same as long guns.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/367?r=21

 

The full text will come as it gets uploaded to the site.  The House alone almost hit almost 400 bills filed in just a week since the new Congress convened, so they'll understandably need a few days to update the website.

FYI, this bill has 43 co-sponsors and only one- Rep. DesJarlais- is from Tennessee.  All you folks who live in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, & 8th districts (I think we all know the 5th and 9th reps aren't in favor) and want this to get put on a committee schedule should fire off an email (yes an email, letters take up to two months to be screened because of the anthrax scare) and politely ask your member of Congress to help.

Edited January 11, 2017 by btq96r

[hipower]

13 minutes ago, JAB said:

Responding specifically to the underlined portion of your quote I think that the reality is that groups which make their living fighting against anti-gun laws don't really want all such laws to go away for the same reason you state that some Democrats might be okay with some pro-gun rights legislation - because such laws are their best fund raising tools.  In other words, if pro-rights groups get too much done then they will have destroyed the specter of 'losing your gun rights', put themselves out of a job (or at least reduced the perceived need for them to be so sizeable) and effectively killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.  I'm not saying that such groups don't do good things for gun owners.  I am just saying that they have just as much stake in keeping their supporters worried as liberals have in keeping the antis stirred up so they probably wouldn't want to do too much too fast even if they could.

As to the main topic, I have personally never really had that much interest in owning anything NFA because of the funds and the red tape and jumping through hoops involved.  Specifically speaking of suppressors I haven't had much interest due to not only the stamp and hassle of owning the suppressor, itself, but also because I don't want to fool with the expense of having any of my pistols set up to run one (threaded barrels, etc.)  However, if suppressors were legal and readily available to the point that some major manufacturers could set up combo deals - for instance, if I went to buy a Ruger MK whatever or other, new .22 pistol and it was available as a set with a factory threaded barrel and a suppressor all in the same box for maybe $75 or $100 more or so above the price of the base model pistol alone then I'd likely opt for the combo.  Further, I personally think that would be the way a manufacturer could get an edge (initially) over similar pistols from competitors (until those competitors started offering similar packages) and I also think that such would be the way that a whole lot of suppressors would be sold in a hypothetical world without the current restrictions.

In response to your suppressor comments, it's a very individual thing. I've always liked them. Some do. Some don't.

I'm pretty sound sensitive, and have had ear and hearing problems all my life. Good hearing protectors help, and I rarely ever shoot without them.

I got addicted years ago when I shot a suppressed 9 pistol. It was fantastic!

I am like you with the aversion to the stamp and the cost, but I did purchase a Ruger 22/45 when they first came out. It was set up like you described, with a can with it. It wasn't as cheap as you mentioned, but I did go ahead and deal with it.

And yes I hated the full 9 month wait I had with it. I won't say the whole deal and time and money involved wasn't a real pita at the time, but I have enjoyed the suppressor immensely. 

I have a couple 22 pistols and a 10/22 rifle and it really makes for a great time to use only foam plugs or nothing at all outside.

If all comes to pass as we've been talking about, I'd love to have one for a larger caliber pistol. Why? I can't really give you a valid reason, except to say I like them and want another.

[JAB]

35 minutes ago, hipower said:

In response to your suppressor comments, it's a very individual thing. I've always liked them. Some do. Some don't.

I'm pretty sound sensitive, and have had ear and hearing problems all my life. Good hearing protectors help, and I rarely ever shoot without them.

I got addicted years ago when I shot a suppressed 9 pistol. It was fantastic!

I am like you with the aversion to the stamp and the cost, but I did purchase a Ruger 22/45 when they first came out. It was set up like you described, with a can with it. It wasn't as cheap as you mentioned, but I did go ahead and deal with it.

And yes I hated the full 9 month wait I had with it. I won't say the whole deal and time and money involved wasn't a real pita at the time, but I have enjoyed the suppressor immensely. 

I have a couple 22 pistols and a 10/22 rifle and it really makes for a great time to use only foam plugs or nothing at all outside.

If all comes to pass as we've been talking about, I'd love to have one for a larger caliber pistol. Why? I can't really give you a valid reason, except to say I like them and want another.

Oh, I think there are probably a lot of people who want them and maybe have been on the fence about obtaining the tax stamp and so who would jump as soon as the legal restriction barriers were removed and take care of whatever modifications were needed for the firearms in the aftermarket or buy a combo even at a premium price.  For me and probably many others, though, I am saying that although it might not seem 'worth it' as things stand if the price went down and the availability went up to the point that the fantasy I mentioned became reality (the factory threaded barrel and can combo for around $100 more) then it wouldn't be so much a matter of, "Is it worth it," as it would be a matter of, "Why the heck not?"

It is kind of odd, to me, that some European countries where the official stance on firearms ownership might not be as 'tolerant' as the U.S. seem to require suppressors, at least in some instances, in order to prevent noise pollution or something similar while our country treats them like majorly dangerous devices.  I mean, how many mafia hitmen (or women) do these folks really believe there are and, of those, how many of these hypothetical hitmen - who theoretically kill people for a living - do they believe worry about getting a tax stamp for their suppressors (if they use them) or have trouble sourcing them via non-standard 'suppliers'?  Yet, again, we have a case where the only people who are restricted or penalized by a law are those who are law abiding.

Edited January 11, 2017 by JAB

[hipower]

13 minutes ago, JAB said:

Oh, I think there are probably a lot of people who want them and maybe have been on the fence about obtaining the tax stamp and so who would jump as soon as the legal restriction barriers were removed and take care of whatever modifications were needed for the firearms in the aftermarket or buy a combo even at a premium price.  For me and probably many others, though, I am saying that although it might not seem 'worth it' as things stand if the price went down and the availability went up to the point that the fantasy I mentioned became reality (the factory threaded barrel and can combo for around $100 more) then it wouldn't be so much a matter of, "Is it worth it," as it would be a matter of, "Why the heck not?"

It is kind of odd, to me, that some European countries where the official stance on firearms ownership might not be as 'tolerant' as the U.S. seem to require suppressors, at least in some instances, in order to prevent noise pollution or something similar while our country treats them like majorly dangerous devices.  I mean, how many mafia hitmen (or women) do these folks really believe there are and, of those, how many of these hypothetical hitmen - who theoretically kill people for a living - do they believe worry about getting a tax stamp for their suppressors (if they use them) or have trouble sourcing them via non-standard 'suppliers'?  Yet, again, we have a case where the only people who are restricted or penalized by a law are those who are law abiding.

Well stated.

[jonnnyboy]

11 hours ago, jonnnyboy said:

What does the "Hearing Protection Act" mean to those who might want to build their own suppressors? 

I think the reason I asked this question is I am waiting now to see what will happen in the first 12 months of the new presidency.  I've jumped through the hoops once for that initial 22 suppressor and I have to admit it was worth it.  My issue is there are a number of other options I would like to try and the prohibitive cost of the suppressor coupled with the tax stamp really puts a wet blanket on things.  Even waiting on the Form 1 for so long just seems too prolonged to maintain the excitement of development and discovery!

I'm hoping for a situation where building, owning, shooting a suppressor will be totally sans tax stamp.  I would love to design my own can or even source the materials from the firearms market that I think would develop; think AR-15 style parts availability.

Just thinking out loud here . . .

[bud]

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Edited April 26, 2017 by bud

[hipower]

1 hour ago, bud said:

Larry, do you think widespread availability of cheap .22 suppressors is going to mean more people plinking in backyards around us in the city, and is that likely to be a major argument against their removal from NFA?

 

I certainly would hope not. I do think that...I wish you hadn't brought that up, not that I pause for a moment.

My first thought was no.  We, as the most likely purchasers of said item, would not do such a thing. It would be illegal as before. Whether or not a firearm is/was suppressed; shooting rounds inside the city limits, Metropolitan Davidson County, or any area where firearms in general at not to be used, shot, or carried.

But...and there's always that but. I'm sure some wannabe secret agent would somehow get a 22 firearm that's threaded and do exactly what you question.

Then there is the possibility of it being used on one of those EBR's and really set off the other side.

That's a lot to think about though. I really, really would like to think all would go well; but the pessimist in me thinks otherwise.

How about some input from you other guys on bud's question. 

[300winmag]

People can always use 22 CB rounds or the high powered pellet rifles if they want to be quiet without buying a suppressor.  As far as a 22 rifle, I have not gotten good accuracy at even 25 yards out of 22 CP rounds.  I also tried the new Remington CBee rounds and they are not great either.  Good enough if you want to hit a coke can at 25 yards but nowhere near as accurate as regular 22 ammo.

[Oh Shoot]

2 hours ago, 300winmag said:

...or the high powered pellet rifles if they want to be quiet without buying a suppressor. 

My only pellet rifle (1000 fps max) , with built in suppressor is pretty much as loud any of my .22s shooting subsonic short of CB. Meaning, too loud to get away with it in Knoxville. Hell, even my Crosman pistol at 600 max is marginally same. 

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

And if silencers are considered firearms then integrally suppressed pistols would be for sale. Maybe the HPA has been in the works for a while, long enough for SilencerCo's Maxim 9 to be dreamed up and produced.

[Omega]

4 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

And if silencers are considered firearms then integrally suppressed pistols would be for sale. Maybe the HPA has been in the works for a while, long enough for SilencerCo's Maxim 9 to be dreamed up and produced.

I don't know, there have been integrated barrels for sometime.  I know that 10/22s have had some for almost 20 years. 

[Randall53]

Has everyone seen this?  Well, it's a local Chattanooga station, but the info is national:

http://newschannel9.com/sports/outdoors/congressional-sportsmens-caucus-leadership-advancing-hearing-protection-act

[Kyron]

Just wanted to point out that low cost cans are already hitting the market. If the HPA becomes law it seems likely many more will be much lower cost.

 

http://rebelsilencers.com

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, Kyron said:

Just wanted to point out that low cost cans are already hitting the market. If the HPA becomes law it seems likely many more will be much lower cost.

 

http://rebelsilencers.com

 

 

Please no-one buy one of their cans.  Especially for a first can.  Don't do it!!!!

[KahrMan]

3 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

Please no-one buy one of their cans.  Especially for a first can.  Don't do it!!!!

Why?

[bud]

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Edited April 26, 2017 by bud

[Jct1911]

1 hour ago, KahrMan said:

Why?

Just not up to par. Also some reports of not delivering. Suppressors aren't the place to "cheap out".

[Erik88]

I sent an email to congressman Duncan and got the standard automated email. It basically said he supports the 2nd and that he would look at this bill if it is reintroduced. No where did I see him say that He actually supported it. 

[bud]

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Edited April 26, 2017 by bud

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, bud said:

If silencers come off nfa regulated list, "cheap" is going to mean " reasonably priced". There's a lot of fat to trim in current prices. A disposable .22 can could be made pretty darn cheap, and as long as they're safe to use, and cost about 40 bucks, I'll by a hand full.

On that front, manufacturers are already exploring additive manufacturing (3D printing) so I imagine it won't be long before plans for a disposable can make the scene. 

[Capbyrd]

2 hours ago, KahrMan said:

Why?

 

2 hours ago, bud said:

I read their "Our Story" tab. They've established a very marketable persona, and I take it the owner made out well with 199trust.com so they may have enough brains and capital behind them to make a go of it. He's definitely in on what I think is the new ground floor.

So I'm assuming the quality/ lifespan of product is crap?

 

 

 

They have been selling the 22 cans to dealers for 50 dollars.  Several of those dealers have been posting on Facebook that they blew up the can with the first mag.  Baffle strikes on a 22 are harder to notice.  But what it boils down to is just horrible product QC.   Also, the design is crap.  You are stacking tolerances by screwing all of the baffles together.  Its crap and its going to leave a lot of first timers frustrated and angry at the experience and they are likely to avoid NFA or at least suppressors altogether after that experience. 

[Jct1911]

59 minutes ago, bud said:

If silencers come off nfa regulated list, "cheap" is going to mean " reasonably priced". There's a lot of fat to trim in current prices. A disposable .22 can could be made pretty darn cheap, and as long as they're safe to use, and cost about 40 bucks, I'll by a hand full.

That's IF though. The Rebel is most likely the lowest of the low as far as quality goes. Double the price(roughly)and you have a lifetime supressor from numerous manufacturers. 

As to cheap and disposable, if not NFA and I can legally build, I'll have a stash of homemade supressors. Hell, I've already got 9 form 1's. 

[KahrMan]

24 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

They have been selling the 22 cans to dealers for 50 dollars.  Several of those dealers have been posting on Facebook that they blew up the can with the first mag.  Baffle strikes on a 22 are harder to notice.  But what it boils down to is just horrible product QC.   Also, the design is crap.  You are stacking tolerances by screwing all of the baffles together.  Its crap and its going to leave a lot of first timers frustrated and angry at the experience and they are likely to avoid NFA or at least suppressors altogether after that experience. 

 

Thanks for the heads up.

[bud]

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Edited April 26, 2017 by bud

[Dolomite_supafly]

ANY 22 can is going to last 5000+ rounds before it starts to really become harmful to your hearing.

People are not going to just throw away a silencer they filled out a 4473 to buy. No different than throwing away a gun no longer wanted. People will sell them to fund a better one spurring a large secondary market of used silencers. Up until now it was just not worth it to buy a used silencer after the cost and wait but if it could be sold instantly there will be a used silencer market, especially during the shortage of supply.

It looks like that 30 caliber silencer is aluminum or excessively heavy steel. If it is aluminum it will have a very short lifespan. If steel it must weigh as much as the gun.