Non lethal defence for wife

[Guest TNK]

What besides a gun would you get for your wife or maybe daughters to carry? I know a handgun is best, but until she takes her HCP I want to get her something that she can defend herself with...I really like the kimber pepper spray, but what are some others that are just as good. Stun gun maybe? Any ideas?

[BigPoppa]

Stun Gun ? No. You have to (literally) be in arm's reach, and the traditional stun gun does little to deter an attacker.

Taser is a better choice, but more expensive and some training would be in order. Taser does give a standoff capability of 21 feet, and if the probes miss or get pulled out, it can be used close-in like a stun gun.

Pepper Spray is a good bet, but get a law enforcement grade product - not the stuff that Dollar General sells that contains black pepper and water. Defense sprays usually are more handy to carry, and concealable.

ASP baton or similar requires training and certification to be legal, and again you have to be very close range to deploy.

Whatever they carry, especially handgun, DON'T let them carry it in their purse !!!! 90%+ of women will never be able to reach their purseborne defensive weapon in time to prevent an attack.

And make sure they always have a cell phone on them.

[Guest Phantom6]

Stun Gun ? No. You have to (literally) be in arm's reach, and the traditional stun gun does little to deter an attacker.

Taser is a better choice, but more expensive and some training would be in order. Taser does give a standoff capability of 21 feet, and if the probes miss or get pulled out, it can be used close-in like a stun gun.

Pepper Spray is a good bet, but get a law enforcement grade product - not the stuff that Dollar General sells that contains black pepper and water. Defense sprays usually are more handy to carry, and concealable.

ASP baton or similar requires training and certification to be legal, and again you have to be very close range to deploy.

Whatever they carry, especially handgun, DON'T let them carry it in their purse !!!! 90%+ of women will never be able to reach their purseborne defensive weapon in time to prevent an attack.

And make sure they always have a cell phone on them.

If there is going to be an assault it's going to come from slapping distance anyway. Taser is very expensive (C2 model is about $299.00with replacement modules at about 45 bucks a piece) but better in my opinion than OC as the sprays are greatly effected by environmental vagerancies such as wind. The expandable baton is in my opinion the best bet. We offer certification and continued training for recertification. Got a class certification class coming up on 17 January. There's a thread over at "Tactics and Training" at the following URL: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206348#post206348

[Punisher84]

Once again to bad ASP batons aren't civilian legal for carry. I know this has been hotly debated lately, but to the OP I would look seriously into the laws about carrying an expandable baton before even thinking about it as an option. There is merely a defense to carrying a baton, but nowhere does it say it is legal to do so.

I'd stick to Pepper spray or a taser for non-lethal.

[Smith]

I am in the same boat and I went with OC spray. My brother-in-law got some from his department and gave them to all the ladies in the family. Good strong stuff. I added a little pink carrier thing and she likes it. I just can't see my wife using a baton or stun gun/tazer effectively and she definitely doesn't care to train like she would need to.

[mousegunner]

http://www.mouseguns.com/nongun.htm has some ideas...

[Glock30Owner]

Once again to bad ASP batons aren't civilian legal for carry. I know this has been hotly debated lately, but to the OP I would look seriously into the laws about carrying an expandable baton before even thinking about it as an option. There is merely a defense to carrying a baton, but nowhere does it say it is legal to do so.

An HCP is "merely a defense" to unlawful carrying of a handgun. As is carrying in your home or place of business without an HCP. If a defense is provided for in the law, then it is legal under those conditions.

[Electric B]

I would go with a kimber spray.

[Guest HexHead]

I would go with a kimber spray.

Yep, I just bought one for my daughter over Christmas when she was visiting.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I got my girlfriend some spray over at Hero Gear...the Kimber Sprays are quite nice too...

[Punisher84]

An HCP is "merely a defense" to unlawful carrying of a handgun. As is carrying in your home or place of business without an HCP. If a defense is provided for in the law, then it is legal under those conditions.

Not really the same thing. If batons are legal for civilian carry then why do most shops not sell to civilians? I'm kinda at the point to say do what you want, but the internet is not the place to get your legal advice.

[Fallguy]

Not really the same thing. If batons are legal for civilian carry then why do most shops not sell to civilians? I'm kinda at the point to say do what you want, but the internet is not the place to get your legal advice.

Yes!!!! it is the same thing!!!

39-17-1307 makes it illegal to carry both a firearm and "club" (among other weapons) in TN PERIOD.

39-17-1308 has DEFENSES for each for carry of handgun (Having a HCP) and a "club" (Having a certificate of training in the use of said "club")

..and YES!!!! Expandable baton carry is legal for ANYONE that has the certificate of training from a certified trainer.

[Guest canynracer]

Go with the Kimber spray...90mph in a stream...less likely for the wind to blow it back at ya, and 90mph stream in itself hurts...it will go around glasses, and you get two shots.

[Fallguy]

I have sent an e-mail to a state Rep that has helped me in the past with laws and even obtaining AG opinions. I will post in a new thread his response. But to me "any person" simply means "any person"

[poak]

I bought my girlfriend some a while back from Friedman's in Nashville. It's a "pepper gel". I bought two canisters, one for her to carry, and one for her to test. I was pretty impressed with delivery of the stuff. Oh, and it also contains UV dyes, making it easier for LEOs to apprehend the suspect even if he washes the gel off.

Here's some pics of it:

http://www.defensedevices.com/mace-gel-pepper-spray.html

[Punisher84]

Yes!!!! it is the same thing!!!

39-17-1307 makes it illegal to carry both a firearm and "club" (among other weapons) in TN PERIOD.

39-17-1308 has DEFENSES for each for carry of handgun (Having a HCP) and a "club" (Having a certificate of training in the use of said "club")

..and YES!!!! Expandable baton carry is legal for ANYONE that has the certificate of training from a certified trainer.

I have sent an e-mail to a state Rep that has helped me in the past with laws and even obtaining AG opinions. I will post in a new thread his response. But to me "any person" simply means "any person"

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I'm just stating this is a debated issue and I think everyone should understand the law, because on your end you say it's ok, on my end I've got lawyers, cops, state certified instructors, and even the shops that sell the things saying Nope no go on civilians carrying.

I'll be interested to see what the State rep says, but until I get something more solid than an interpretation of law, I'm standing by my sources.

[Fallguy]

I'd really like to know what lawyer told you this. You can PM me his/her name if you'd like.

Did you show 39-17-1308(a)(9) to them?....and they still said civilians can't carry?

[alwayspackin]

Yeah, listen to a lawyer!!!! They know everything!! But the truth is that if you are not trained with the club, stick or what ever then the judge will but your butt in jail, when you get arrested for having it. I have asked a few people carrying ASAPs (security guards mainly) if the had there ASAP training card. Some of them actually do. You are suppose to carry your certification card on you just like you HCP or armed security license (card). I don’t why this is so hard for people to understand.

[Guest Guntrainer]

Oddly enough, Armament Systems and Procedures (ASP) will only train Law Enforcement and Private Protective Security at their training facility or on the road. They will NOT train Citizens or Civilian Trainers.

THIS could be the chink in the armor for a Private Citizen with an ASP.

AS far as Chemical Spray, there are many times IT DOES NOT WORK.

If you spray an impaired offender, and it does not work on him, you are going to wear it when you engage him or he engages you. It will likely work on you.

There has been mention of a Krav Maga class in the Nashville area. This takes a considerable amount of commitment and time.

There is a fellow in downtown Nashville, Levi Montgomery, who trains folks to defend themselves without depending on a device they may not get to use when needed. This guy is a wrecking machine, but very mild mannered.

http://www.basetac.com/Levi.htm

[Fallguy]

Oddly enough, Armament Systems and Procedures (ASP) will only train Law Enforcement and Private Protective Security at their training facility or on the road. They will NOT train Citizens or Civilian Trainers.

Here is a copy of the e-mail I got back from ASP when I asked them about civilian training.

Good morning.

It is up to the discretion of an ASP Instructor if he/she wants to certify a civilian. Our support is for law enforcement personnel regarding the amount of force used in a given situation.

If you should have other quesitons, please e-mail me or call our office at (800) 236-6243.

Kathy Bruns

kathyb@asp-net.com

So it seems it us up to the instructor. However...there are other brands of expandable batons out there as well.

Of course I know this is straight from the horses mouth, but still may not change the mind of some because someone else said different.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

To clear this up, a civilian can legally carry a baton in Tn if they have completed the training by a certified (post I think) baton instructor.

Carrying the baton isnt as good idea as carrying and using the most potent peper spray out there. We carry FREEZE +P in civilian key chain sizes, and it works great. You ask any police officer out there and they will tell you FREEZE is the "TIZZLE" in bad azzed pepper sprays.

Stun guns dont work because you have to get in the attackers reach to use it.

IMHO tazers have thier limits as well.

I'd go with a good spray.

[Guest cjr]

My wife has the Kimber spray aswell, I would not want her carrying a baton because it would most likely be taken away and used on her.

[Fallguy]

To clear this up, a civilian can legally carry a baton in Tn if they have completed the training by a certified (post I think) baton instructor.

Shhhhhhh

That goes against some very learned people in the Memphis area who are also instructors with lawyers and all kind of experience and cases behind them.

[Punisher84]

Shhhhhhh

That goes against some very learned people in the Memphis area who are also instructors with lawyers and all kind of experience and cases behind them.

OK now this is ridiculous. I keep my mouth shut and I thought we kinda got this worked out through private posts. Now you wanna start this kinda crap?

That's ridiculous man. You just caused me to lose all respect I had for you. I don't know if that means anything or not to you, but you know people can have differences of opinion and at least on my end I was simply cautioning people to check the laws for themselves and to know if it was legal or not.

I said before if it is legal then that's great, but my sources that I know and trust said it isn't. That's what was told to me and that's what I relayed. So your answer is to call out a person who once considered you a friend and make me look like a fool. I'm completely astounded at you man.

[Fallguy]

My point is I believe God himself could come down and tell you it is legal, but as long as these others are advising you that it is not, you will keep telling people it is illegal even though you have told me yourself that in your opinion you don't think it is.

So far you have not backed up anything they have told you other than to say they have told you. Myself and others have least posted some reference material as to why we think it is legal. "ANY PERSON" Loyalty is a wonderful thing...as long as it doesn't blind you.

...and FWIW I really wasn't talking about you, since you have told me you personally think it is legal, but for those that you say keep telling you that it isn't.