LI0NSFAN

EX texan- Bunkers can be done at a reasonable price. The most affordable is the shipping container that is stuck underground. I was in a bunker about a year ago where the guy bought 6 of them for under 5000 and he can weld so he made doorways to each of them and put up some walls to give some privacy. He said after getting the property, getting a well, containers and his time and building supplies he is in it for 8,000 and he spread it out over 4 yrs. He got the first container and made it ready for short term living in the first year and keep adding after that. He is now at about 1000sf of living space. He is getting 2 more, 1 for food storage and the other for security items. I have a little more in mine,but I can't weld so that takes me out of that option. I spread my cost out over 5 years to make it more affordable. I got the property first year, got the well, and septic the second and just save the other 3 years. I just finished building a House on the property as well so parents can move in when they retire. I like living near downtown and all the parks so we prbably wont live there for a while so inlaws can live there.

That is exactly the mindset I am in, I just live in a much smaller city where a lot less people are on welfare and need to be taken care of. I am also putting 30-60 days as get past the worst of it timeline.

I understand the AR arguement completely, I have one and love it. I got a decent dealon mine and did not buy a top of the line flattop and after buying sights It came in right at 1,000. I also have a Mini 14 that has good iron sights and function just as well as my AR and I got it for 550 used. It is not quite half but close. I would also not call a mini a bargain or POS gun, I would trust both with my life as I have never had a problem with either. It is just when you are buying 5 a cheap AR at 800otd compared to 600 that would save 1000 dollars. I know that you can get ARs for 600-700 but I feel that the Ruger is a better gun for that price range.

After starting another thread, I get the feeling that I am a lot less paranoid than the next guy. I am wondering what most peoples SHTF is. Is it along what I think of, civil unrest that is localized to an region and the rest of the country is fine, or is it an all out post apocalyptic world war and YOU are our only hope for survival. Just want to know what you are prepping for and general supplies. I only asked this because recently found out that I know someone who recently bought a armored personnel carrier and has a bunker that looks like a military warehouse. I just dont ever see a need as much as he has.

I did look at that ( it was interesting to read what happens during those times" but I just dont feel that every person that flees the city is coming to my doorstep. There are a lot easier places to get to than my place. It is a 3/4 mile 2 track to "my place in the hills" I have a clear vantage point for the last 1/4 mile the other half mile to the road is dense vegitation other than the 2 track.

I agree about protecting what is mine and my family. I also don't feel that there are a lot of people that can add to my family/group. I just don't see more than 1000 people coming up to my place looking for help and i don't expect to HAVE to shoot all of them. I just dont see me going on a killing spree and needing 1000 guns and 1 million rounds of ammo. We can survive on our property for al fairly long period of time barring enviromental issue, ie nucular fallout, airborn bio attack, or anything that makes breathing difficult. In the safe house we can last a couple of months of not leaving.

I know a lot of people believe that you need to stock up on guns that you can get parts and ammo of bodies laying in the street. I see 2 problems with that for me. #1 I do not plan on leaving my property. I will have everything I need here. Well water, plenty of dry goods, small garden, wild game if needed. I fell in a necular fall out I will either be dead of evacuated. I am secluded enough that I wont have mobs of people coming to my place looking for supplies. If 30,000 rounds of ammo can't hold them off nothing will #2 If you do plan on taking something off people why not stock up on what YOU like and if needed take the gun as well as parts and ammo off them. I personally never expect to do this because I am neither going to roam the street looking for ammo or trying to take over the world. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I just don't think that things will get bad enough in E TN and the mountains to have to go all out and prepare for EOW and repopulation. Knoxville has a population of just 200,000 and I dont see all those people coming 20 mi into the hills to my doorstep trying to take me out.

I like the AK for the stock up gun. It just does not share ammo with a handgun. I did encounter not finding more than 1 of the 357 lever guns in stock. I did find a place that will order everthing I want and not charge a transfer. They are ordering them in at there cost and sell to me at discounted retail because of the number of each. It looks like I am getting the setup done this June. I have decided to go the 357mag wheel gun, 357 mag marlin lever action, mossberg ati 243, ruger 10/22. I will be buying as many as I can on the private market until its time to order and then order what I have not gotten yet. That should help the budget and lessen the chance of having TBI at my doorstep for getting 20 guns in such a short period of time. I will post pics. Now I need to work on a way to have all of this mobile for each person and getting speed loaders for the wheel gun(still have not picked a maker on that).

I saw this and was amazed they did not hit the building. I don't know a whole lot about military helicopters, my mother worked as an air rescue nurse so I asked her and she said it could happen in the right things align. She said if they banked to sharp up they would drop like turbulance in a plane. So if the air was thinner she said she could see it not regaining itself. She also added that the guys flying this should have known this and unless the were having trouble before they passed the building they should have never came in that low and tried to bank that sharp.

Is this a condo type community or subdivision. I have had a couple of houses that had HOA. I have never had them maintain my yard or house. They have always taken care of the common areas. They will not do repairs or maintence on anything on your property. I would double check the contract, my guess is that the person selling you on the advantages of HOA misspoke and they don't mow your lawn or maintence. If it is in your contract you have the right not to pay the HOA fee if they are not doing the things stated in the contract. All you have to do is send a letter stating why you are not paying the fee until the contract is met in full. My mother did this and she has had a lot of success with this route.

Card thanks for asking, I did not want to ask but always wanted to know.

I have another post up about what long range rifle to get, this round keeps coming up. I have shot a lot of other rounds but never shot this one. I was wondering what the pros/cons are to this round. I would need it for a 300yd ridge to ridge shot. Will a 243 make that shot(provided I can) and still have enough take down power. I have read things on it and it look like it will but I would like to know from someone who has shot it. Question 2: what would be a good bolt action rifle with irons that comes in this round.

GJ- thanks for the heads up, I may pick some up just for fun anyway. keep them in th safe house JIC for me to shoot. Jonin-I have not heard much about 243 so I am looking into the 243. The long range rifle is for a ridge top that is about 300yds from the safe house. It is the highest point in the area we are the second. I don't expect to use the long range but I would rather have it then not. Me and the other hunter in the group both prefer the 308 round and we know what we can do with it. I am only getting 5 of those so we have already loaded back ups for 2 of us so the others can reload. I don't want to get into a situation where the wife and kids have to shoot it but can if they have to.

The difference between the mossy and getting a nagant and ati stock(to reduce weight) is not that much. Sad as it is Nagants around here are not $100 anymore. the last couple time I have seen them they are asking $130 and after ATI stock it is close to $200.

Here is how I rank importance for choosing these guns 1. compatability- I wan't to have as little different calibers to stock up on, mags must swap between carbine and hangun a must, if I go semi auto route 2. ease of use- I have to train 3 non gun people. Think about teaching your 90 yr old grandma that doesn't speak english. I am not but if she can learn it anyone can 3. cost- I could have a great set up for 4000 a person, I just dont have that kind of money. No single gun over $700 as that is a good chunk of the budget for one gun. 4. reliability- I do not want to have to worry if it is going to go bang every time, meaning guns that are picky on ammo are out 5. ammo availibility and cost- do not want to buy ammo as it comes available. Should be able to go and pick up 1000 rounds as needed at a reasonable price 6. abuse on the body- My wife is 100lbs she can hold her own but a sore shoulder may hamper effectiveness. Same for the 2 kids they are under 15yrs old and small 7. availability- I am not looking at a gun that is on back order When I figure out what I want I will be getting 5, I would like to go to one place and get it. I under stand shipping as a delay but don't need a gun that takes 8-10 weeks to get in. I have used this as a guideline for choosing and if it does not meet ALL it does not fit this project.

Jonnin- The wife has shot the mossberg 308 and the nagant, she prefers the mossberg. Also the Nagant weights almost double than a synthetic stock mossberg. I have had several nagants and none of them shoot the same and may be harder to get sighted in for each person. A newer gun has a more consistant shot and esier to sight in for an individual. Plus all the time to clean the nagants up when you get them, I will be doing all the cleaning if I get them. JAB it will be fun training.

I am with you I think that spending a little more and getting a 30-06 or 308 would be a better choice. I like the mini14 over the AR, but I have eleminated the 223. cal from the mix. It really looks like I am going for 357mag in revolver, 357mag lever rifle, mossberg 308 bolt action, ruger 10/22

I am looking into the details of the FFL. I know it would save the money just not sure I want the potential hassle.

I have noticed that the guns are flagged ALOT faster here than anywhere else. There was a 308 listed in Memphis for over a month. I put up a scope for a gun, not the gun just a scope and it was flagged and taken down in 5mins. I guess the people in Knox have nothing better to do than flag.

I have a decent collection but most are hunting rifles. I have near 20 but no doubles of any one gun. So no matter the route I go I would have to buy at least 4 of each gun. I agree on getting the 223 or 308 in something other than the AR but all the AR slappies keep post to get an AR. I like the platform but the cost does not out weight the benefits, Especially when you can get a quality rifle in same caliber for half the price.

OS- that is a nice combo. Cdukes- My primary concern with that is that you now require everyone in your group to have the knowledge to make the switch. I know its easy but people that are not normally around guns and are under pressure may find this frustrating. Plus you run into the issue of if anything happens to the lower you are now out 2 guns. My second concern for this project is cost. to get even a low end ar (if availible) or build one, after buying the 22 upper you are now near or over 1000 and have only 1 mag for 22lr that holds ten. My original reason for not using the ar platform is that I could not find one (in stock and availible) that I did not have to buy extra parts for near $1000otd and that eats alot of the budget. When getting 5 people armed, budget came into play. If I was just arming me, AR would be my primary.

The more I think about the 357 route, I like it. I LOVE the reliability of wheelgun and levergun option.

I have left my KCI for the range as well but have had no problems so they are an option for me.

Prag- I thought about the hipoints because of the cost and I own a couple and do like them but the max mag is 10rounds. You can get ones a little bigger but they are not at all reliable. I might get a couple of hipoints to stash on th property for emergency back up if caught out of the safe house.

These are the kind of discussions I was looking for, I have gotten some good Ideas. I am really looking into the 357 option and love the idea of a lever gun. I was not evern thinking of wheel guns with different cylinders