graycrait

ccr refinishg, Holy Smokes!! Thanks. Now I need to send a Glock upper and small parts. Craig

I hang out at a shop that charges 15.00 + 10.00 for the background.

What initially disappoints me about the Apex in the M&P vs Vanek/Fulcrum or Lightening Strike Glock triggers: 1. Installation time of Apex is much longer in M&P vs Venek, Fulcrum or Lightening Strike or even Ghost Rocket Connector of Glocks 2. Installation of complete Apex in M&P is a comparative PIA with all Glock aftermarket. 2. Pretravel length of Apex is annoying enough to make you think about it, something I should not have to think about. 3. Gritty pretravel of Apex. Only thing that keeps me working with M&P is superior out of the box ergonomics of trigger shoe and grip. Installation of aftermarket front and rear sight is is also a PIA compared to Glock. Like a couple of years ago the "fiddley" nature of the M&P is starting to turn me off. Craig

I know about Robar NP3, Failzero EXO, Metaloy hardchrome but I am wondering who else is out there? I am not interested in Dura or Cera Kote, just metallic finishes? Who else does small part hardchrome or nickel/teflon finishing? Ideally I want to get some small parts finished in very slick durable coatings for Glocks and S&W revolvers. NP3 seems good but cheaper would be better. Craig in Clarksville

Has anyone shot one of these and does anyone know how much these cost retail? Specifications

I traded my G36 recently for a M&P 9L (why the 9L - simply a target of opportunity). Although I like Glocks, to an extreme some say, and my G36 was very comfortable to carry with a grip reduction, with stippling of both the gun and Pearce +1 extensions, I wasn't as comfortable using it as a carry gun as I wanted to be. In a peacetime paper punching two-handed grip in a modified Weaver stance it was fine. If for some reason I had to shoot the G36 one-handed weak-hand it was harder and slower than I like. For the right owner with the right training and skills it works like, well - like a Glock. Additionally I have some soft tissue issues in my right wrist and elbow and it aggravated those more than I get with Glock 9mms.

RWF, Who is Dan? Also do you have M&Ps with very little take up (pre travel) in the triggers? Craig

Great! At last, someone who has taken the time shoot a lot of .22 before going centerfire. I preach this but few listen. I would also recommend you get a decent 9mm as 9mm is the cheapest ammo you can buy retail next to .22LR. Don't go too small in 9mm and watch the triggers in many 9mm handguns. Back to the LCP: learn to shoot it fast at 15-21' one-handed weak hand and strong hand. The little guns are sometimes easier to shoot one-handed when you need it fast and if you need it fast you probably need it one-handed.

It wouldn't be my recommendation as a first handgun but if you master it at 15 yards and in nearly any other pistol will be "easy." The only accessories you need are cleaning equipment and ammo, lots of ammo.

I'm with I_Like_Pie, but an Sig X-Five would be nice too.

I installed a Zev Tec Fulcrum trigger kit into my Glock 17L, I like it a lot. The pre and overtravel are much reduced and the reset seems shorter. Nice positive reset with no "Mushy" feel on the break at all. I may end up getting 2 or more of these. I took the Lightening Strike trigger out of the G17L and put it in my Beta G19. I also installed in both my 17L and BG19 two new extractor plungers from White Noise Defense: H.R.E.D. 9mm - White Sound Defense Why use these? I'm not sure. I like to try out Glock, Ruger and some other weapons' aftermarket. Glock Warehouse - Manfucaturer Products - ZEV TECHNOLOGIES I got the Zev Tec Fulcrum trigger through Brownells using my military retiree discount. Lightening Strike: Glock Triggers by Lightning Strike Products Inc. As a matter of course I do a .25 trigger job on my Glocks but I do like trying out aftermarket triggers. Including the triggers mentioned here I have also used Vanek triggers. Home - Vanek Custom I would recommend Fulcrum over the others at this point. I also installed an Apex trigger in my S& M&P 9L. I got this M&P in a trade, not my first M&P - the second (I got rid of the first one about 4 weeks after getting it), but the first one I have fiddled with. The M&P seems like it has twice the parts of the Glock. This kit required that I replace parts in the slide and frame. The M&P has two springs on the striker. You also have to remove the rear sight to get the safety plunger out exposing a tiny disk and a small spring and plunger. All of which can get lost. The Extractor has to be removed by knocking out a roll pin aka CZ pistols. Also the lower seemingly has many more parts than the Glock. The sear plunger spring is the tiniest spring in a gun I remember having seen and I promptly lost it, which I found much later. Thankfully I had a new one as part of the Apex trigger kit. If you watch the Apex Tactical Youtube installation video you will note that their armorer had a tough time with this part of the reinstallation too. The lower also has two roll pins and a trigger pin that have to be knocked out. (I'm so used to pushing Glock pins). Watch that spring wire that tensions the takedown lever. I got the gun together and saw this laying on the table under something and wondered what is that? Oh well, knocked the pins out again and reinstalled it. I should watch the videos or look at a diagram before I start these projects not after. I do have to say that the trigger is lighter with a nice break, but the creep is gritty even after I polished the striker's face which interfaces with the sear. The Apex sear is touted as a "hard" sear, but I am afraid I will have to dismantle this thing again and polish the sear face. The trigger take up seems extreme to me with the M&P but that doesn't really turn me off, although it is something I would like to address. The trigger itself fits my hinky RH index finger pretty well and the bore axis of the pistol is low like the Glock. I am not fond of the many little parts of the M&P vice the Glock though. But the grip is wonderful now that I have slightly reshaped one of the grip inserts. Apex triggers: https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html also purchased through Brownells at a discount I broke my HiViz sight that I tried to install on the M&P. Later I talked to an Army helo mechanic who did the same thing with his M&P. He said the second time he did it he froze the front sight in the freezer and heated up the slide with a hair dryer and it went in easily. Seems obvious now. I installed Warren Tactical on the rear and reinstalled a tritium of some brand on the front. Sometimes a brass punch and hammer are not the answer. I am going to have to try one of those Kaiser universal sight tools. I like the Glock's simplicity over the M&Ps action design. I wish the Glocks innards could transferred to the M&P's ergonomics. Unrelated but thought I would toss this in too - I ordered some things for my traditional bows from 3 Rivers Archery for the first time. Efficient and helpful: 3Rivers Archery Equipment, Traditional Youth Archery Bows and Arrows, and Long Bow Hunting

Stopped in to G&L this morning so that a friend of mine could drop off a couple of firearms to get fixed by Jeff. Then the 4 of us stopped in at the range for a bit. Guns fired: S&W 49, S&W Mdl 10, S&W M&P9C, Sig 229, S&W M&P9L, SA XDM40 4.5, 3 G19s, G17L, G19 w/AA .22 upper. Consensus was that one of my "slightly" modified G19s was the easiest to shoot well. However, I personally really liked the Sig 229 - my first time shooting one of these. The S&W 49 will replace my Keltec 32, when feasible, as my left-hand one-hand backup gun. Although I am going to replace the front sight on the S&W M&P 9L and put in an Apex trigger, right now, I put that gun behind my own G17 and G17L. A new trigger and sight may put it up higher on the list. If you want/need a "standard" size SYA handgun it really is hard to beat a G19. However, I think I need a 229, 226 or a X-Five Tactical. Those guns fit and work well for me. Craig

I've bought sold and traded quite a few brands of self defense handguns in the last decade. For me it is about weight, trigger geometry, reliability and durability without having to baby the gun. I would be hard pressed to guess how many Glocks I have worked on or owned. I have 8 of my own right now. They are not my favorite handgun but they are my preferred handgun. There is enough grip material on a Glock to form the grip to be pretty ergonomically pleasing if you don't like stock. I appreciate the fact that I can make the Glock's ergonomics conform to me and not me having to conform to it. The trigger geometry and the ability to "tune" the trigger appeals to me also. More on that when I get my Fulcrum trigger kit this week, although as posted before I have had both Vanek and Lightening Strike Glock triggers. I have shot all the other plastic gun competitors and did buy a M&P a few years ago, but at the time I didn't think it gave me anything over a Glock and was just a little more "fiddley" inside. However, the day before yesterday one of my friends offered to trade me his M&P 9L for my much customized Glock 36. The M&P grip panel hit the basal thumb in my joint funny before and became uncomfortable during long range sessions in my previous M&P. So the first thing I did with this new one was to grind the grip panel to accomodate my thumb joint. I'll be at the range today to try this new to me M&P out. My friends kid me that I'll be having a fire sale on Glocks soon. I too have "converted" a couple of my current Glocks to "dedicated" .22LR using Advantage Arms kits. I have handled one of the M&P .22s but have not shot one. The unavailability of an aftermarket .22 conversion for the M&P may be telling on its market penetration depth. For the last few years and for the foreseeable I go to bed with a Mossberg 500 and Glock 17 close to hand. It would take a lot to make me change those two comfort items.

Put some 180 grain Cor Bon Hunters or Buffalo Bore 180 grain .357s in it and have one of your buddies shoot it.

As to colors of the S&W 49: since bluing doesn't make any sense I thought about doing something similar to what the snub I have been told about that was featured in the American Handgunner (which I inadverdantly deleted), tan and black. As for the M&P 9L I am going to test it out tomorrow, install the Apex kit when I get it. I ain't painting the M&P 9L. I can't or won't Cerakote any guns until my friend who does Cerakoting gets back from Afghanistan. As to a safe full of guns, I trade mostly, which keeps the number downs. For instance I got the M&P 9L for a G36 I had. Hard to say what I would do with the M&P 9L if someone offered up a G34, but then I have had 2 G34s before and have a 17L. I need to see how the M&P 9L runs with the Apex kit versus the Fulcrum kit I will install in my 17L.

The LCP and P3AT work well, with the dimensions about the same, although the LCP is bit more refined. The LCP weighs 9.4 oz and the P3AT weighs 8.3oz. The P32 Keltec weighs 6.6oz. I try to have a P32 close at hand most of the time. I just load it with ball ammo for a bit better penetration. My little drill for a SYA gun is to be able to dump it fast in a 6" circle at 15' weak hand one handed. If I can't do that then I get concerned as to practicality of a SYA gun. I figure in my lifestyle if I have to use a gun everything else must have gone wrong so I best practice shooting one-handed left handed.

I got lucky and got an older beater S&W 49 that someone had spray painted with aerosol spray paint, dropped it on pavement at least once but didn't booger up the action or the innards. I feel a colorful Cerakote project coming up. Also acquired by trading my Glock 36 a S&W 9mm M&PL (5" barrel). I tried to like the S&W M&P 9mm in the past but the action is just a tad more fiddley than the Glocks and there was a troublesome feeling between the grip and the big joint where my thumb joins my hand. I like the S&W M&P's low bore axis for index finger-like point shooting. I got the Foredom rotary tool out and changed the grip of this M&P and got the grip so ugly looking I got my 10.00 woodburning pen out and stippled the modified grip insert and the front strap of the M&P. The M&P trigger isn't bad but I am feeling an Apex M&P trigger kit coming on - 'cause I can't leave a gun factory stock. Sub 3lb Drop In Kits for the S&W M&P « Will Work For Ammo – Apex Tactical Specialties

I have tried and have done about everything one can do with a Glock. Ditto that Vanek trigger that a previous poster mentioned. However, I have ordered a Fulcrum trigger kit for one of my dedicated .22LR Glocks with Advantage Arms conversion kit. Even with a Taylor Freelance Seattle Slug in the grip void at 3.5oz an AA .22LR Glock only weighs around 15 oz. At that weight triggers are important if you want to make little groups with an ultra light weight .22LR pistol. The traditional .25 cent trigger job with 3.5lb connector won't get it. So I want to see what the possibilities are. Hey - tercel89 - Cold War? I resemble that. You calling me old?

I have had two PF9s. They are what they are, light weight fire breathing buck snorting little dragons. Do the Golden Loki fluff & buff and shoot them a little but carry them a lot. GoldenLoki.com. The Pf9 is not a fun gun to pop a couple of hundred rounds off at the range. It is a value laden SYA pistol.

Alpha, Not to worry, I traded the G36 to a friend for his S&W M&P 9L. Now I don't need a G34 (again). I could swear I pay a fee to the forum, can't remember that last time I paid but I still can get on the classifieds so I must be paid up. OOPS, just checked and I hadn't paid up lately - corrected that!

Glocks are perfection from the factory, never do anything to them, it would be sacrilege and a waste of time, effort and money.

I get the SSS Aguilla at TN Gun Country.

Today I went to the range and tested the following pistols: Taurus PT 22 with wood grips older version Taurus PT22 with rubber grips newer version Glock 36 Glock 19 Glock 26 Glock 19 with AA .22LR conversion Glock 17 with AA .22LR conversion I also shot a friends new Ruger SP101 4" .22LR (long and heavy DA trigger pull and SA left much to be desired.) I will pass this one by. Older Taurus: Shot perfect with Aguilla 60 grain subsonics shooting 4 or 5 mags worth, different mags. I was shocked and pleased. Upon receiving the pair of Taurus PT 22s I had soaked them for a couple of days in tranny fluid and then cleaned them well. I also used my Dremel and Craytex bits to polish the chamber and ramps. I was shooting one-handed with both Taurus at 21feet just to see if they would cycle the Aguilla assassin bullets. Newer Taurus. It would shoot and cycle 60 grain SSSs until the 2nd to last round and then jam the nose of the round into the top of the chamber. I may try and address that with some Craytex but not sure if it is worth the effort. It happened with multiple magazines so it wasn't the spring or follower. (I have 5 or 6 mags for these Taurus PT22s). HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The newer and older PT 22s ate with aplomb CCI Velocitors (40 grain at 1450FPS). All in all I was really pleased with the the Taurus PT 22s. I think *+1 60 Grain Aguilla Subsonics may be what the doctor ordered for a small Save Your Ass pistol that requires no slide racking and can be uploaded in seconds with an additional magazine.I shot all Velocitors and Aguilla 60 grain SSS into a fist sized group at 15 feet at speed one handed with no real concentration for accuracy. BIG NEWS!!!!! Both my dedicated Advantage Arms" .22LR Glock 19 and 17 ate with no bobbles with different mags (I have 4 mags each gun) Aguilla 60 grain SSS. I could keep the rounds into a dime at 15 feet one handed slow fire. The issue with using Glocks is their light weight with the AA conversion. I added 3oz to each with Taylor Freelance Seattle Brass Slugs in the grip void but they are still light. Also shooting one handed the trigger could be better in such a lightweight .22LR. Good enough for soda cans at 25 yrds but not good enough to shoot serious groups with these 4lb "combat" triggers. I was both surprised and quite pleased that both AA conversions could digest and spit out with reasonable save your ass accuracy arguably the best .22LR self defense bullet on the market today: 60 grain Aguilla Subsonic. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Comparative%20Analysis%20of%20the%20Terminal%20Effectiveness%20of%20the%2022LR%20and%2025ACP%20handgun%2012APR11.pdf Lastly. Glock G36 with Federal SV 230 grain JSP. I want to like the .45 ACP for Self Defense badly, but alas I personally can't. I have had 11 or 12 other .45 ACPs. My very nice "customized" G36 is 100% reliable and is good enough if you want to blow someone away at 30 feet but I don't like shooting it - leastways not when compared to my Glock 9mms. The G36 is not brutal, but like my 11.5oz Diamondback DB9, it ain't fun. I'll keep the DB9mm because it is so small and Glock-like, the G36 has to go. Bottom line on the G36: I will trade this gun in a NY minute for a Glock 9mm hopefully with 4 mags, any functional Glock 9mm or something(s) in .22LR or agreeable amounts/type of 9mm, .22LR or .223 55-62 grain ammo. https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=5f85f16e91&view=att&th=1330a6220f756639&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_gttb57uh0&zw Craig craig

I've got two Star BMs and one BKM (alloy frame) 9x19s. Compact version of the B's - sort of.

Right now I have 9mm Glocks in 26, 19, 17 & 17L. For me the front sight and trigger mean more to me than the sight radius if I am methodically and carefully trying to punch a hole in paper, although the sights I use could hardly be called target sights. "Rapid" follow-ups work easiest for me with my particular G19s. I have the same front sight on all of my Glocks 9mm or .45 and try and have the same trigger feel on the Glocks I consider carry guns.