graycrait

Whatever it is worth coming from a recently certified Glock and certified S&W M&P armorer as well as plastic handgun nut in general: go G19: simpler to work on, proven time and again, big aftermarket if you like that sort of thing. Downside of the G19 can be the grip for some people, the S&W M&P excels in it's grip design. Both are solid guns and one should have no fear in picking either up to SY...

Rugers aren't that hard to detail strip and reassemble if you know how and have a bit of practice. I did a parts swap for an 5th Special Forces Group soldier the other day with his gun in my lap as I swapped parts out, showing him how it is done. I had a hard time the first time or two but now it is a snap. If you don't do anything else throw the mag disconnect away and replace it with a $7.00 MKII bushing or a Clark bushing. Next install a Volquartsen pre and over travel adjustable trigger with a Volquartsen sear. That will allow you to get the trigger to 2.5 or 2.25lbs with little over and pre travel. These two websites pretty much covers the MKII and MKIII, standard or 22/45. detailstrip www.1bad69.com

TNWNGR, I gave the S&W M&P a trial, twice. I am done with them. The Dan Wesson revolver on the other hand has me very interested right now. I've drank from the fire hose of Dan Wesson info the last several days. Unbeknownst to me is that a gun parts manufacturer friend of mine is a DW revolver expert. He makes and markets DW revovler parts including barrels and shrouds in a heavier format than the originals, but attach just like the old ones. He also makes sights, parts kits, etc. My first experience with DW revolvers had me thinking that they were a little hinky in design compared to Ruger and S&W, but I have revised that notion now that I am more familiar with a number of gun designs. There has to be a good reason that not only is the design strong but is very accurate if the barrel is gapped and tensioned correctly, neither of which is difficult. Dan Wesson left S&W to produce his revolutionary pistol design. It is good that CZ is once again making the DW revolver design. I don't plan on getting a CZ-made DW revolver, but I can't say never as long as the option exists. I'm going to try different barrel lengths and try to find a .22LR DW revolver.

Just wanted to share a pic and info. I recently acquired a couple of takedown pumps that have striking similarities. The top rifle pictured is a Winchester 62A from the 50's and the bottom one is a Rossi Interarms from the 90's I guess. Blue Book prices for the Rossi i the condition it is in are about 100.00, while the Winchester sits around 500.00. Both guns do what I want very well, shoot 20 grain Aguila Colibras in my backyard without bothering the neighbors.

R1100R, Eric of EWK Arms is a friend of mine, pen pal at least. I've got some feelers out for used 2" "orig" DW barrel assemblies right now that may bear fruit soon. If that doesn't work I will get one or two barrels from EWK and will surely get some of EWKs other DW products. EWK is out of barrels right now but will have another run sometime in the future. The grips on this 15-2 are too big for anything practical to me so EWK sent me this url: lbcustomgrips.com. It isn't coming up this morning but was working last nite - maintenance maybe. I won't be selling mine as I think I have "drank the Kool-Aid." I can see several DW revolvers in my future. Thanks for the warning about the CZ DW barrels. I almost pulled the trigger on a 2.5" on their website last night in my haste, but backed off when it seemed likely I can get one with patience locally or from EWK when there are more available. Craig

I traded my S&W M&P 9L with Apex trigger and two sets of aftermarket sights including Trijicon night sights and Warren tactical rear w/HiViz front sight. I got: 1) 5000 sealed rounds of Centurian 40grain LRN 1250 FPs ammo; 2) 95%+ Taurus 62 pump tube fed .22 rifle and 3) 95% condition 1979 blued 6" Dan Wesson, Monson, MA, 15-2 .357. I am currently in negotiation with a third party for used 2 & 4" DW blued DW barrel assemblies and have a friend who makes DW revolver parts. CZ still markets parts that will work on this model. I have worked on DW revolvers before but didn't class them as Ruger durable or S&W elegant. However, after doing more research before the trade the DW revolvers can squeeze some pretty good accuracy out of the revolver world. One of these DW revolvers in .22LR would be way cool.

I have no clue as to why the poorer performance with the lighter types of .22 except for bullet mass must make the slide retract all the way. Advantage Arms makes the .22 conversions I have for Glocks. I have one for the G17 also.

Capbyrd, Thank you for the info, I'll be looking into Huntertown Arms. Craig

I tested out some fairly lightweight .22 pistols yesterday, primarily to see how the 60 grain subsonic Aguila SSS would work in them. Interestingly enough the 60 grainers ran well in all 4 pistols pictured below. The new PLY .22 by Taurus worked 100% from the first mag load of the 60 grainers, and I ended up shooting about 150 60 grain SSS through the PLY 22. The trigger reset on the PLY 22 is not as fast as the reset on a Bobcat, had two Bobcats at the test belonging to friend, who also had a PLY 22. However the PLY 22 allows second strike capability. I like the PLY 22 so much I may get another one. At 7yds and in, with those 60 grain subsonics, the PLY 22 is a real thumper of a mousegun. Here are some of the ammo types that ran 100% reliably through the PLY 22: 60gn SSS Aguila, American Eagle 40gn LRN, Armscor Precision 40 gn LRN, Winchester Dynapoints (40gn I think), Centurian 40gn LRN, CCI of several types including Stinger, CCI bulk pack Ar15. What didn't work: Winchester 36gn JHPs in the 525 bulk pack -always had or or two failures in a mag load. Aguila 30 gn truncated cone Super Max Hper Vel failed initially but worked later - this round needs more testing. Lastly, my earlier model Taurus died during the test. The slide split at the front. The PLY has a seemingly better made "slide cradle" under the barrel. The pictured .22LR pistols weighed empty with magazine: PLY 22 = 11 oz; G26 AA = 13; G19 AA w/3oz brass slug in grip void = 18.8oz; S&W 2214 = 18oz.

I have had a couple of supressor enthusiasts recommend the Silencerco Sparrow Stainless Steel. Supposed to be expensive but worth it. I'll probably go with Yankee Mill Mite as I am only plinking with .22LR. I alsojust received a threaded 1:9 twist .10/22 barrel from Tactical Innovations to shoot 60 grain Aguila subsonics.

What is a Glock?

A nice little scope for a carbine 10/22 is the Weaver 2-7x28 Rimfire.

OK, something I know something about. The rules of 10/22 to make a factory gun (which is a very nice factory gun for the money) and what to make it a pretty nice gun regardless of price but in order of money or time neeed: 1. Volquartsen hammer & poly buffer pin 2. Auto bolt release mod - zero dollars 3. Rechamber and recrown stock barrel 4. Volquartsen sear 5. Reface and chamfer bolt. 6. Bed stock 7. Maybe oversized pins or aftermarket tigger group 8. Stiffer stock But now you are exceeding the original design parameter limits. Start looking at Remington 40X orAnschutz 2013.

Like a supressor expert told me: there isn't more than 2 or 3 db difference between .22 supressors so cleaning is the real issue. The Mite can be cleaned, is not a full auto supressor, and makes any bolt or pump supressed .22 very quiet. I think the 10/22 action itself is louder than a supressed subsonic .22 round.

[/img] Pretty nice job of threading a standard 1022 peg barrel by a friend of mine who teaches SF snipers at Ft Campbell. Note that he cut down the intergral 10/22 sight base and used it as the shoulder. I tested this barrel today using a friend's Yankee Hill Mite with SV subsonics. No baffle strikes and very nicely done. I have got to get to Guns and Leather and get a supressor of my own. Craig

Short version of history. S&W Escort is first. After that 2206 in stainless steel, they make them in 4.5 and 6". 422 is black aluminum and 622 is silver aluminum, both weigh the same Very accurate. Many say as accurate barrels as 41 but they lack same balance and weight as 41, and don't have as good as trigger. Low bore axis and weight, and thread adapter and wrench by EWK Smith & Wesson 422 Series : EWK Arms make this the ultimate supressor host in 4.5" (rare) and 6". 2214 is black aluminum shorty and 2213 is brushed aluminum shorty. Mags for the 2206/622/422 is the same as S&W 41. 2214/13 is 8 rd but can take the 10 rd 41 mag. Back in the day the firing pin was the achilles heels but Jack First gunshop in SD and EWK in OH made better tempered aftermarket pins. I have owned 2214, 622, 422(both lengths), 2206 (both lengths). My favorite is 6" black 422.

This is a pretty small .22, using a Yankee Hill Mite we had some fun with Aguila 60grain subsonics, RWS subsonics and manually cycled colibras. This is the smallest of the 2206/422 series, some time after the S&W Escort.

I'll look at my Apex kit in my M&P 9L but maybe it would be better after I return from M&P Armorer's course next week. Craig

I've been carrying my DB9 as my off-hand pocket gun. Since returning from the factory in a 4 day turn around I have had zero function problems. A bit ground and smoothed off the bottom off the feed ramp has made it reliable with my usual ball and JHPs. This pistol can be controlled at panic speeds by one-handed shooting. I compare it to my Keltecs and S&W J-frame Mdl 49 and don't find the DB9 wanting in comparison.

P.S. I just looked and this rifle would likely save a lot of grief by just getting this one: FS Full Custom Ruger 10/22 Built - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Dolomite_supafly has it right and I envy him his home range to test out experiments. However, if you want to improve the trigger without hardly doing anything just buy a Volquartsen hammer and install that. That will nearly get you to where you need to go. Just that one thing. Of course you could stone your own hammer but then you have the issue of stoning through the hardened metal, going too far, etc. Just the VQ hammer will do you a lot of good. I've tinkered around with a dozen or so 10/22s, using 4 or 5 Green Mountain barrels, a couple of Rimfire Technology barrels, after market trigger groups, and other parts. Right now I have a Colossic bolt lock on order to turn one of my 10/22s into a suppressed bolt action/semi-auto. If the bolt lock works I may spring for a 1:9 twist barrel for Aguila 60grain SSS ammo. If you want to turn a 10/22 into a match grade .22 rifle you can come close if you experiment a lot, but on one project I spent as much on a 10/22 as one would on a Winchester 52 or a Remington 40X and the gun could not shoot with those, but it was fun and educational. The smartest value to get one shooting really nice without breaking the bank is getting hold of Nemohunter on rimfirecentral or contacting Randy at CPC and sending your bolt and barrel to him to be tuned up, then install a VQ hammer and then go from there if you think you need to go further. Connecticut Precision Chambering I have a refaced bolt and tuned up stock peg barrel on one of mine and I like it better than any other I have had and it looks like a stock carbine 10/22. Trigger is about 2.5lbs, and just having a decent trigger is a good thing. I have a friend who makes gun parts and is going to make a S&W 41 barrel/upper with a 1:12 twist. Talking to him got me off on a tangent again looking at twist rates, barrel lengths, bore specs etc. Talking to this fella he told me that he just measured one of his stock 10/22s and it is right on Saami spec wise. Which seems to suggest that if you take a 10/22 in these steps you can rather inexpensively and incrementally improve the accuracy up to a point: trigger; rechamber/crown the barrel; bolt work; V-block;bedding. Much beyond that I think you might be better off getting a true target rifle. The other issue with a tighter chamber is reliability and crud build-up. I had a 10/22 barrel made one time that had such a tight chamber for one specific type of ammo that it became unreliable rather quickly due to the inherent "dirtiness" of .22 ammo. There are a lot of trade offs in the .22 rifle game. I like 10/22s but I think you can have a lot of fun with the new S&W AR-like .22, at least that is what I hear from two hardcore gun friends of mine. I personally can't get over how much fun a Remington 552 semi-auto is with its ability to shoot nearly anything you put in the tube at the same time, leaving out Colibras. Have fun and keep asking questions. I suspect there are more than just a few guys on this forum who have poured money down the rathole of 10/22 aftermarket and learned some lessons.

ls3_kid, If you were here in Clarksville I would install the requisite aftermarket parts to make a Ruger MKII or III (std or 22/45) so that your dad would have pretty darn good target .22. Throw a Ultradot Matchdot or Millet or Tasco ProPoint on the right Ruger and you or your dad might give the high end gun owners a run for their money. Craig in Clarksville

I have owned or shot the snot out of all three. Run away from the Taurus 94. The new SP101 .22 DA revolver has a horrible trigger, but can be improved. The 617 is the class of the lot but may need some trigger work to get it up to older model 17s' triggers.

I've owned all of the following and currently have all these installed in pistols except for the Vanek. Vanek - GlockHome - Vanek Custom Good trigger bar and shoe set-up for a race gun especially if you want it to look stock Glock plastic from the outside. The Vanek triggers are probably the gold standard where shooters want good safe triggers with light pulls. I had one of these in one of my homemade "race" guns a few years ago and I had it set up with a sub 2lb trigger. Phantom (aluminum trigger shoe) - Glock Phantom Triggers - Glock parts, accessories, and custom Glock refinishing at Rockyourglock Store This is a stock trigger bar with pre and over travel adjustable aluminum trigger shoe. Right now my favorite. The shoe at 9.04mm wide feels better than my next favorite, the Fulcrum. The trigger safety on the shoe has a slightly less powerful return spring than the trigger shoe safety on the Fulcrum. The pre and over travel adjustments work. I think this shoe has not been on the market overly long, but I only recently came across it. This is a perfect match for a 6lb trigger return spring, .25 cent trigger job and a 3.5lb connector. Fulcrum (aluminum trigger shoe) - Fulcrum Glock Warehouse - Main Page This is a stock trigger bar with pre and over travel adjustable aluminum trigger shoe. This is a very nice shoe with a comparatively stronger trigger safety spring than the Phantom. The shoe is flat and is 9.14mm wide. Pre and Over travel adjustments work. The Fulcrum has quiet a few fans in competition circles where it is allowed. I would think that maybe the Phantom will give the Fulcrum a run for its market in time. This is a perfect match for a 6lb trigger return spring, .25 cent trigger job and a 3.5lb connector. Lightening Strike (aluminum trigger shoe) - Glock Glock Triggers by Lightning Strike Products Inc. This is a stock trigger bar without a pre and over travel adjustable aluminum trigger shoe.If you want an aluminum trigger that is the closest to a stock Glock smooth "target" trigger this is it. This is a good match for a 6lb trigger return spring, .25 cent trigger job and a 3.5lb connector. Ghost Rocket (3.5 handfitted connector with over travel adjustment) - Glock 3.5 lb. ROCKET This is not a trigger but a connector that you have to hand fit to adjust overtravel. It has been around for a good while now. It is slightly tedious to set up but is not hard. Apex (sear spring set-up for lighter trigger) - S&W M&P https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html This is a sear spring kit that will definitley lighten your trigger pull. Even though it is called a "hard" sear with an implication that it is harder than the stock sear, the face of the sear that contacts the striker should be smoothed before installation. CAUTION: to install the complete kit you have to remove the rear sight from the slide to install new striker springs. There is a very small disk, spring and plunger under the sight that can easily get lost, with care on a white towel you should manage them. When replacing the sear there is a tiny, I mean tiny spring and plunger set under the sear. They will get lost if you are not careful. There is a replacement plunger spring in the Apex kit, but no extra plunger. Unless you have tiny fingers a hemostat is the best tool to use to install these tiny pieces. Thoughts: 1. The Ghost Rocket is the least expensive aftermarket way to get a nice trigger out of a stock Glock trigger bar. Do a .25 Cent Trigger Job, install a 6lb trigger return spring and hand fit the Ghost Rocket connector. 2. My personal favorite at this time is the Phantom. I like the surface feel of the shoe and like the Fulcrum it has pre and over travel adjustments. I wish the Phantom had the same trigger safety spring as the Fulcrum as the Fulcrum's safety spring seems a bit more stout although not annoying. I still give a slight edge to the Phantom due to its shoe design. 3. Lots of folks put in reduced power striker springs to further lighten the trigger pull but I don't currently do that in my Glocks. I installed the striker spring provided in the Apex M&P kit and that trigger is light, but my M&P is strictly a range gun. I expect all my Glocks to shoot crappy ammo with tough primers.