Fallguy

Arrested for what? Now if you have told him you are armed or he has seen a weapon...I 100% agree he can disarm you for the duration of the stop if he deems it necessary. But I don't think anything says you have to answer the question in the first place. I would think if you can passively refuse to follow a command without violating the law, you can passively not answer a question without violating the law. I'm not saying I wouldn't answer any questions...I'm not saying it is even a good thing...I even agree that if you don't answer, he may be able to have you get out and search you, I'm just saying I don't think you have to answer any questions.

Here is another lawyer's opinion... http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2000/op/op147.pdf Lawful Commands of Police QUESTION Whether an individual who intentionally but passively refuses to obey a law enforcement officer’sreasonable, lawful command commits an offense under Tennessee law? OPINION No, an individual who intentionally but passively refuses to obey a law enforcement officer’sreasonable, lawful command does not commit an offense under Tennessee law because force is a necessaryelement of resisting arrest.

The info you were given is correct. If you renew before your permit expires, then you can continue to carry even if it expires before your new permit arrives, as long as you have the receipt showing you renewed before the expiration date. If you don't renew till after your permit expires, then you can not carry until the new permit arrives.

Not to pile on....but the law is fairly clear, if your permit has expired you can not carry with the receipt for renewal...you must wait until your new HCP arrives. I don't doubt that other answers were given though.....I admit that recently it seems DOS employees have been more accurate on things related to HCPs, but for a long time many didn't seem to know a lot some laws and procedures.

Yes...maybe for trespassing, if he was asked to leave and didn't. Of course that could happen without the sign. I really don't think most LEOs would have just hauled him off to jail if they saw him inside without any discussion. There is a thread on another forum where someone OCed past a "No Concealed Weapons" sign...he was never asked to leave, but the law was called and after some discussion...there were no charges, because he didn't violate any law...just the policy of the location and LEOs are in the business of enforcing laws, not private property policies..... But I agree that carring past the sign, to ask about it probably wasn't the best way to start the discussion.....

How did he break the law? A "No loaded weapons" signs doesn't contain all the info required in 39-17-1359 to be a legal posting.

To sort of summarize all that has been said... There is an AG Opinion (07-148 Question 7) that says an owner can regulate the method of carry on his property. The only law prohibiting carry though is all or nothing 39-17-1359. So a "No Open Carry" sign wouldn't carry any weight of law. The owner would have to ask the person to leave and they refuse, then to OCer could be charged with trespassing. (Same AG Opinion above Questions 5 & 6) However he could do this without a sign posted. A sign may prevent someone from OCing in his place...but unless this happens a lot, I agree with some that it may start more conversations or concerns than OCers it prevents and considering he would have to go through the same procedure with or without a sign....well it's up to him what to do.

At first I wondered if it is a poorly worded sign meaning not for repair etc... like many outdoors stores have. But the except for LEOs part doesn't seem to follow along with that.

You are right...I should have said without a warrant. There are a few exceptions in 40-7-103. Of course a warrant can be obtained for any violation of the law and the officer can make the arrest.

It is...but isn't it a misdemeanor? Which if it didn't occur in the LEOs presence....I don't think he can charge him.

State law allows carry in state parks, I don't know of any restrictions at any park that aren't alread in the law. I don't think any policy go against the law. I think the Costco he carried in may have posted, but it has been reported on here that not all of them are posted.

In general why would a LEO ask for your HCP unless he already knows your armed? If he already knows your armed or has seen a firearm in the car...then all the RAS, PC is already there, right? If you have handed over your HCP without being asked, odds are you're not the type that would then refuse to be open and cooperative, right? If he hasn't asked for your HCP, you haven't handed it over, no weapons are visable and you look like the "average" guy...the topic of firearms may not even come up.

You are correct, he can disarm you...if he feels it is necessary for the safety of himself, the HCP holder or the public. (Not really supposed to "just cause") It would seem from many post here, most officers any more are choosing not to disarm them. I could be wrong, but I think the law is worded the way it is, because normally I don't think an officer would ask you for your permit, if he didn't already know you are armed. So if he already knows, you're armed...me may or may not disarm you while checking your permit. But this is why some don't notify (unless asked) because it may not come up at all if the HCP holder doesn't bring it up.

Careful guys........

I agree that the amount of an item can make a difference. ...and yes, several TVs etc... could be cause for concern. I don't have a problem with running anything(s) through NCIC if there is a reason to think something is up, but it just seems from my observation (as limited as is it I guess) that firearms are checked proportionality more often.

First I must say I am bit surprised that it wasn't till the 8th post that an OC thread got off the original topic. It usually the second or third...lol Of course when someone ask a specific question that involves OC it always become a OC - Anti-OC debate...so nothing new. But anyway... I don't know of any prepared literature right off, but you may try checking other website. Or as some have suggested. You might just include a line or two about carry in general on a card then have URLs to a few websites with more information.

At one time I think the the new expiration date could be different depending on when the renewal went through. But lately all have reported it being the same as what is on the HCP now.

I know the Dept of Safety page says Airports are off-limits, but as stated above that is only the "secure area". The airport in Nashville however is posted, but it is only the terminal. On another forum I am in a running discussion with a Nashville Airport LEO on a subject....and he just posted in that thread that the parking lot, drop off/pickup area is not posted and other than checking your permit there shouldn't be any problem.

Well yes, there is a record the gun was run, but in the database where it was run/checked....there is no information of who was in possession of it at the the time, is there? Yes, a DL/HCP check or other things may have been run at the time, but that is checked through the state database...the TIES system in TN (Tennessee Information Enforcement System) and wouldn't be along with the information in the national NCIC system. I guess with a bit of work one could tie it all together..but it wouldn't be simple. All that said....I never have understood (other than the normal firearms are bad) why it seems firearms are almost always checked through NCIC, even when there is no reason to think they are stolen, when an officer encounters one. I mean if you were taking your old TV to a friends house and it was sitting in the back seat or whatever...unless something seems out of place, the officer usually isn't' going to check to see if it is stolen....but if it is a shotgun.....I bet he does.

Just because a LEO takes you license doesn't always mean he'll run it through the computer. I have seen them take it, hold it, talk to the driver for just a moment, hand the license back with a warning and end of stop. Even if runs it through the computer and sees you have a HCP, it doesn't mean he knows or even thinks you are armed for sure. As discussed in another thread, there seems to be a fairly large percentage of people that have HCPs that don't regularly carry. So why bring something up that may never come up and has nothing to do with the stop? Now if your weapon is exposed, he is going to search you for some reason or any other situation where you think he may see/find it..then Yes, by all means inform. I agree that surprises aren't good. Last time I was stopped, I didn't notify....he took my license, went back to the patrol car, came back and gave me my ticket and that was it. I'm not saying make it hard on them or be difficult etc... I'm just saying that sometimes you may make an issue out of something that otherwise would never come up. But if you want to notify, that is fine...but just because some don't doesn't mean they are trying to be difficult.

Lots of opinions and post on this, some say Yes, some say No. In the end you have to make your own mind at the time.

Why is everyone wanting sue McDonald's? What is you feel they did or didn't do? I mean if the police have no legal duty to protect you, how can you expect an employee of a place you are in to have a duty to protect you? A business being held responsible for the actions of its patrons is one reason many places post. If we (HCP holders) shoot someone in there place they don't want to be sued for not banning firearms. As far as hate crimes go...I'm with Red5...if someone commits a crime against someone, does it really matter what their motivation was?

In TN the info is in two different databases and each one has to be checked individually.

Well...they're not enough to find out in one step. You can take the name that comes back from running the tags, run DL check with it and even if there is more than one you can match the address from the tag check. I don't think this normally done, because who says the registered owner is the driver...but it can be done and I almost wonder if that was the case this time. Since the LEO did ask right away....

Well actually the law says you have to present your HCP upon demand, not answer questions. But I wouldn't lie...that becomes a whole seperate issue besides why you were stopped and having the handgun.