sigmtnman

It is your butt that will get in trouble if it is not and you are caught with it. It is not hard to count/replace the parts, so why not do it?

Congrats! Watch out, that kool-aid is strong... I wound up drinking some in Dec and have since picked up 2. Waiting for those pics. And now I understand you knowing about cabooses. lol

I hope you are correct, but I fear "they" have positioned themselves on all sides of the arguments, so that even when we win 1, we lose 2. Most people can not fathom a world in which we are free from the binds of onerous government process. A world in which I can drive any speed I desire, but am responsible for the my action if I impact another's private property. A world where I can do business without a license, but am wholly responsible if I affect another's private property. A world where there are no victimless crimes. A world where I don't need a drivers license to drive, a marriage license to marry or a social security card to work. When I talk of this sort of things folks loose their minds, because they have always been told it is anarchy, when in actuality it is the pinnacle of freedom and responsibility. With the fact that the largest employer in the US is the US government, the task of awakening folks becomes even more difficult, as those in the employ are less likely to do anything to upset the status quo.

Yes, I agree. I really do feel the acceptance of corps as an equal to man was a move by the leaders of the government to usurp our god given rights. When natural person rights and corporate rights are at loggerhead, the corps win because they are viewed as having super rights because they supposedly represent a body of natural persons, when in fact, they represent the views whoever is at the decision making helm. Eminent Domain is a case in point. We need to wake up to the realization that this is yet another tool in the arsenal of those who wish to remove us of all of our rights. Please don't confuse this with business, and commerce. Business and commerce can take place under sole proprietorships and partnerships, where there is absolute responsibility assigned to the owners who are in fact natural persons. I do think we would be able to make inroads and progress if we actually had an educated populace that cared about others, ate dinner together every night with their family and was more motivated to discuss politics openly, instead of watching dances with stars. Instead, the dept. of education has done a excellent job of preparing everyone for their place as an obedient mindless cog. Have you ever had a chance to look into who founded the department of education? Very interesting stuff right there. I absolutely feel things will get done. I am just thinking it will take a statutory enema to accomplish it. Please don' t take this the wrong way, but in our discussions, I see you more as Hank or Dagny who still believes that the looters are acting under misguided altruism and incompetence. I feel a bit more like John, Ragnar and Fransisco... I like your sig, but I think there is a complimentary passage by Francisco that applies: " "So you think that money is the root of all evil?... Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? ... Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into bread you need to survive tomorrow. ... Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values... Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes marked: 'Account Overdrawn." (forgive me from getting this from wiki, I know it is not the best source, but this is summarized from pages 410-413. When I went back to my copy to reread the whole section, I found it already dog eared. ) A strange side note is that I find it funny that Alan Greenspan, who was a student of Rands philosophy went on to become a destroyer of money with the Federal Reserve.

Pardon my train of thought here, I can hopefully put a caboose on it... Statutory law is why they can legislate however they please. We accept the "contract" when we take social security cards. Under contract you agree to give up your freedoms for the security the government offers. Once in a while there is a dog and pony show put on by the SCOTUS to keep us all from pondering this and to make us feel like we have "constitutional" rights. We have no constitutional rights, we have god given rights. This may sounds crazy, but the legal words that we choose to use can put us soundly in the common law or position us to fall under statutory law. An example is drivers licenses. There is SCOTUS case law where a man who did not have a drivers license (contract with the state to drive) was aquited of charges because when he was stopped he said he was "traveling", which the constitution forbids the goverment from restricting. Had he said he was "driving", that would place him under statutory law, because a "driver" is a commercial activity that can be regulated by interstate commerce. From my perspective over the years of paying attention to politics, I really see no substance difference in either party or their actions when the rubber hits the road. I also see the loan democrat or republican crossing party lines at just the right moment to pass crap legislation, time and time again. I see one party pick up and do the same things the last party complained about, while apologists sit around saying it's different this time or acceptable because "party Y" did it before. Ask yourself why Clinton runs around with Bush Sr. Why did W work so closely with Obama during the transition? These people put on a show in public then go drinking and patting each other on the back at night. There is a pattern where a republican executive tees up something and the next democrat executive drive it home. Then while driving home the teed up crap, the democrat tees up some distasteful crap for the next republican to drive home, allowing for finger pointing galore while lining their pockets. Nixon teed up relations with china, and Carter drove it home. Carter allowed massive illegal immigration and Reagan granted them amnesty. A handful of corps own the majority of the news and media, but most folks are not aware of the interrelationships of the directors that sit on these boards. This is not tinfoil, just straight up facts that are varifiable. Go to Media Owners - See who owns the American media - American media companies at MediaOwners.com and pick out a company. Select either the ceo or the company name itself and go to theyrule.net, again this is not a tinfoil site, just a site that uses public records to map who are the directors for what company, what institutions they are affiliated with (CRF, RAND,etc) and finally which Executive administrations they have participated in. If you then use muckety, it will allow you to find additional relationships. All of the information on these 3 sites is varifiable through public records. Common law has been overrun by statutory law and none of us are freemen anymore, just property of the Federal gov. We gave away our own decision making and the responsibilities that go along with those decisions for statutory laws to protect us form things that might happen. Whether we wanted to make that exchange or not, it was forced on "We the people" with the 13th and 14th ammendments which removed all of us as citizens of our soveriegn states and made us United States citizens. This was completed with the social security cards which place us under the guardianship of the fed. The moochers and looters have taken advantage of the statutory laws and use it to supress competition with onerous requirements that only large corps can afford(hipa,sox, etc) , direct favors (subsidies, tax credits for certain industries), force companies to do business with others they may not wish to, and in the worst cases using the investigative/enforcemtn units of government illegally to stifle competition(fda raiding raw dairy farmers and food coops.) Pasterization is a good example. Industrialized farming required pasturization to make the milk safe due to the conditions of operation and the large distribution areas. These industrial farming corps then lobbied for every dairy farmer to be forced to pasturize their milk because people were choosing to stick with raw milk and not the pasteurized milk. This is a clear example of industry using statutory law to benifet themselves and stiffle competition. I believe the majority of statutory law is crap too. It removes personal responsibility by indviduals and places it in the hands of the state. If you have lots of money or connections, you get a good lawyer or the right venue/DA/judge and you go free, if you don't, well you don't... Under pure property rights, there is no need for the onerous statutory law, since everyone is responsible for themselves, if they impede on others property rights. Statutory laws try to handle the what-ifs and possible situations that *may* cause something. These statutory laws are the same laws that grant person hood to a soulless corporation and give your god given rights to them so they may work to take away those rights from you.

lol. I have had a number of jobs at corporations and never have I had a say in the political statements of the company, only the board and execs did. Why do all of the people need to form a corporation to have their voice heard? You can join together with others to have a voice heard without a corp.

The constitution must be taken as a whole, you can't cherry pick. The preamble sets up the constitution and begins "We the people" and all rights referred to in the constitution are self evident from our creator. That would eliminate corporations having the same rights as people. I am not so much against the scotus ruling as merely trying to point out the fallacy of corporate person hood. Any foreign national with enough money to incorporate will enjoy the same rights to freedom of political speech as you, donations to candidates and all. I guess next we will be giving foreign terrorists and prisoners of wars our rights as well. Just because my countries government says a corporation is a person, that don't make it so with my god.

It is cut and dried for the natural persons known as "we the people".

I have a g22 and a pf9. I like my pf-9 and it is my edc. I have an uncle mikes pocket holster and it works well. I am 6'2 225. It is not real fun to shoot after a couple of mags, but I find it as accurate as my g22 up to about 25 feet. The trigger is long. I have never had a ftf or fte, but did have another issue (below) with around 250-300 by me and I don't recall how many by the previous tho owner. If you get a used one, the ejector roll pins can walk on them, so check that out. After a few fires, the hammer and/or slide will lock. I sent it back to KelTec and they replaced most of the parts on the lower, the grips, polished the feed ramp and shipped it back for free. The customer service is awesome. Heck repairing a used gun for free goes above and beyond in my book.

I have had my own business before and sold it. So please don't think I am a business hater. I love free enterprise. I hate government intervention. I feel government intervened when it recognized corps as natural persons with god given rights.

We need a liberty party:

I reckon I am really surprised that so many people feel a legal entity drawn up on paper and devoid of a soul is our equal. Oh and sorry about all the edits I am cleaning a 1911 while we discuss this.

I do not support abridging free speech for US citizens and have never said I have. I would fight to die for a fellow US citizens right to free speech. I do not however respect the a decision by our government to allow corporations which are not natural persons with God given rights to enjoy our god given rights as natural persons. Corporations are not people capable of morals and are not US citizens. That is the flaw. Sure Corporations are made of of people. I work for one and the majority of workers are non us citizens. I believe they should not have a say in our political system. I am more likely to lose my rights to free speech by the company telling me I have to watch what I can say in public and on the internet, but hey, I have to live with that because I choose to work there. I don't like the idea of H1B visa holders and foreign execs influencing another election. I didn't checkmate myself. I read the entire opinion, IMNHO it should have been decided on a more narrow ground, but they chose not to, and unfortunately I don't have a lifetime appointment from a corrupt executive.

I held many brands and models before I bought. I am happy with my purchase so far and hopefully will remain so.

I am sorry, but I don't think Italy (through Fiat owning Chrysler) should have free political speech in my country. Just like I don't think a corporation ran by a Chinese national or a non US citizen should have the free political speech they will under this decision.

You are mistaken what I am saying. I am for capitalism. I am pro business. But a corporation is not a natural person. And whether you like it or not a multi national corporation does what is best for it's stock holders, without regard to it's country. If a corporation is a person, why can't it run for president or serve in the military?

If corporate personhood didn't exist there would be no discussion about corporate free speech. A corporation is not a person and does not have god given rights. The Preamble to the constitution says; "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It does not say "We the Corporations" and it does not say, "We the people and corporations created under authority of the state." Something created by the people does not have the authority to create it's own posterity.

Thanks for the kind words. I bought mine at Benton and they had one more but I am pretty sure it was gone the last time I was there. They have all kimbers 10% off and have a cash discount as well. The one with the bumper is a wilson combat 8 rounder. The factory ones are low profile and don't break down.

I just sold off a few of my guns to offset the cost of a Kimber Pro CDP II. I am 250 rounds into the break in and it has been flawless and a joy to shoot. I also shoot a g22 and pf-9. It feels perfect for my hand and seems more balanced and has less recoil than the other 2. I have been feeding it 230 fmj alternating the factory mag and a wilson combat 8 rounder.

My wife and myself went to see it yesterday at the IMAX in Turkey Creek and it was unbelievable. That 3d is amazing. The trailer for the space shuttle had better 3d than Avatar. The astronauts were in our seats. It almost was sickening. lol But just wow, avatar was awesome. Did anyone catch that the humans were using artificial/mechanical means to achieve what the avatars did by biologically bonding? Talk about some tree hugger crap right there. lol

I wound up shooting my new kimber instead. Is it tomorrow too?

150 more flawless rounds of 230 fmj today with good 2-3" 3 shot groupings at 25 feet, standing, single and 2 handed. The gun is more accurate than I am... I am still very, very pleased with the gun. It is a little on the flashy side, but I really like the "carry melt" so I figure when/if the finish wears down I will do it up black.

Insurance companies have much to do why we have mandatory seatbelt laws. Hey AR, can't you see James , Wesley , Cuffy and Mr. Thompson sitting around a dark room negotiating favors and which banks would be forced by the fdic to sell themselves?

You are an intelligent man. Most people are heavily influenced by the propaganda that comes from whatever corporate owned news source they choose to listen to. Why should a non natural person (corporation) have god given rights? Are we to think the founders wanted that? I am not talking about a responsible business owner or partnership. Corporations are not persons and don't have god given rights. The recognition of them by the government oversteps the bounds of the constitution.

Take away her seat and give it to a common free man.