sigmtnman

You have to laugh at this part I don't recall them saying they were tests when they rolled the fees out... We went ahead an made the jump to a credit union from Regions because of it.

America has used it too, remember Manifest Destiny? So what's the point here other than to relate Southerners to the Germans?

Sheeze, I was just making an appropriate reference and the usual suspects get all touchy... That Lincoln quote sounds like a true politician. While Deists may believe that a "supreme architect" or whatever they believe/don't believe in has a hands off approach to things, Christians believe otherwise. Trials and adversity are part of the greater plan and a certain outcome is not necessarily forthwith. Instead of attacking this thread why not start one about yankee heritage? One must ponder; If the north is/was so grand, why do they continue to move to the South? Yes, the South did lose that series of battles and since then much more has been lost. Maybe the South has just been playing opossum.

Deo Vindice

That's funny Mr. Fernatt. If you would like to have a legitimate discussion about the views put forth and policies supported by the candidates, that would be great and I am open to that. If you would like to make judgments and assumptions about folks with different perceptions then just pass me by. FWIW, I was open to Herman Cain before I realized he appears to worship mammon, does not appear genuine in his values and changes his mind depending on the occasion and audience. Cain supports a debt based society (usury) which is what the Federal Reserve is about and he has no issues with it as he he continues to state. He made the National Restaurant Association one of the top lobby groups in the country to the detriment of individual citizens representation. While he has been very successfully while working at some of the top multi-national corporations, it would appear with further investigation that he is an insider. Not to mention, he is named Cain... Here is a video of him claiming one thing to only later change his mind to support the killing as we all know. As you point out, there is a problem with Perry's tax plan, but there are also issues with Cain's plan. When the corporations are forced to pay a 9% flat tax, they will pass that along to the consumers in the form of price increases and thusly we will really have an 18% national sales tax. Many folks make the majority/all of their money through capital gains and they would pay nothing. The burden is being shifted entirely to the wage workers, though it could be argued it is done so now through the many loopholes which are capitalized on by many folks. Consider as well, that we will no longer be able to deduct the 9% TN sales tax or dependents and many will be paying much more. It is estimated that Cain's plan will bring in more taxes than is currently collected and is similar to trying to fix a problem by throwing more money at it. Without a reduction in overspending and the bloated government, the private sector will never recover as the money will continue to be siphoned to an central authority. There are better options, but at least it is being discussed. What did the .gov do for $ before the enactment of the Federal reserve and IRS in 1913? Furthermore, I support Garry Johnson as well as Ron Paul and while neither satisfy all of my desires in a candidate they are closer and have actually lived the lives that they purport to represent.

Huh? Mine didn't.

I really have to wonder if you behave the same in person.

I never intended to question your relationship with the Lord, but was rather pointing out a verse which is appropriate with regard to your usage of the Mark Twain quote. Matthew 5:22

So little to add to the discussion? I don't care who can "get elected", I care about voting for the best candidate. Reading the quote in your signature by John Adams, I'm curious if you understand the difference between Austrian economics and keynesian economics?

Actually I am very open to change my mind, but not without evidence. I've pointed out fallacies in your understanding of Paul's positions and of how free markets work. I've asked questions and you didn't answer, but instead chose to use strawman arguments, ad Hominem and logical fallacies. Perhaps you should read Matthew 5:22 before before using your Mark Twain quote...

Why? They wrote the Constitution and Dr. Paul is the only candidate who believes in it. How does allowing illegals to live here keep us safe and secure? Why should they be able to stay if they got here through illegal means? Would you feel the same if those 6 million were terrorists? Please direct me to these stances by Cain as the only thing I have read says he is pro-life, but believes in pro-choice for others. With today's missle technology and our blue sea Navy, why do we have to have a presence around the world? The price of gold would be revalued to match the number of dollars in circulation. It was done with the original Bretton Woods, so it has been done before and it is the only way to fend off the sort of inflation printing money causes. Why shouldn't the Free Market drive healthcare? How does a free market == hand holding. Please elaborate. I've watched my health insurance prices quadruple over the last 10 years, so your point is lost on me. Dr. Paul is a doctor after all and understands health care. So, if you vote for who you feel is the best candidate, you are stealing votes away from the viable candidates? What? You should not pick your candidate like you do a sports team. Or even worse, based on who you think can win or are told can win. You vote for who you want. I appreciate that you have amassed a wealth of experience in your 3 years of voting though and you are allowed to vote for who you would like, but don't misrepresent candidates views who you don't like. Which of his attempts are flawed? Would that be when he said there was a housing bubble? Or would it be when he said we would experience inflation and we did? Would it be it where he exposed the 16 trillion the Federal Reserve loaned to US and foreign banks? Would it be that he was the only one who didn't support the bailouts? How has his sincerity come into question? Go look at his voting record.

Just responding in kind.

Sounds like you don't understand Dr. Paul's positions. Were the Founding Fathers anarchists? No, they just understood that a strong central government == Tyranny. He wants to actual enforce our borders unlike what we have now, where anyone can walk across as long as they wave a mexican flag. He wants to make the $ stronger by actually backing it with Gold, so that it can not be devalued by printing. He wants to make our security stronger, by making sure we don't go bankrupt like all other empires of the past have done, who try to police the entire world. He feels the States have a better idea of what the citizens wants and needs are as opposed to a Fed run by corporations. He believes in God, guns, Property rights, doing away with the federal reserve and the IRS. But I reckon if you support baby killing, policing the world, inflation and hiding your head in the sand so the .gov can hold your hand, he is not your man.

I could not use to them for EDC, even with my Valor checkering. They sure look good for the barbque though.

The only thing about Sarge's grips is that they lack texture. If you are going for looks alone, they are sweet.

VZs are excellent.

I have the AK grip on 3 guns now. I had the Saw on a saiga conversion and it worked well. My S12 has a hogue and it is the nicest of the three though it requires a bit of shaving to fit tight without wobble. I've found the Standard AK stock to be the best for myself for full size and the sidefolder the best if I want it to go shorter.

At least he would veto everything that came across his desk and slow the crooks in CONgress down. He could also do away with executive orders.

Lots of democrats would support Paul even thought they may not agree with all of his stances, because he has a proven track record and they feel like Obama lied to them. I've heard many say that Obama more of a neocon than Bush. Lots of independents would support Paul because he has a proven track record and they respect his honesty. No difference between Romney, Cain, Perry or Obama anyways... They will all continue to turn America to crap.

They never fail to mention his "libertarian" leanings. They never mention Romney's democrat leanings with Romney care or his socialist leanings with the bailouts? How about Perry being an ex-democrat or his cheerleader leanings or his socialist leanings with the bailouts? Didn't he support Hillary care and force preteens to take a VD vaccine? How about Herman Cain's socialist leanings with the bailouts? Or his corporate crony-ism and corporate lobbyist leanings? Ron is the only one who has never voted for a tax increase and is the only one who wants to do away with the IRS. He is the most Republican of the bunch. He is also the only one who feels that corporate welfare is wrong and that they have a stranglehold on DC.

"Remember... If you see something, say something."

Yes, without cutting the size of the .gov, it is for not. The 9/9/9 plan will bring in more revenue to the Fed than it gets now. That is like giving a drunk more alcohol to solve his drinking problem. The other thing is that the 9/9/9 plan is actually a 9/9/9/9 plan since employers will no longer be able to deduct payroll. Where will the employers get that 9% from? Your salary. Not to mention, we pay over 9% here in TN for sales tax which we are able to deduct now and won't under Cain's plan. That adds another 9 for TN residents... "... abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing.†—Dr. Ron Paul.

It's just a sad selection, except for the "fringe" candidate that lost by less than 1% in the Iowa straw poll. The thing about Paul that makes me half way trust him, is the way the media despises him. Given that the media is owned by 6 corporations, who's boards of directors sit on other companies which stand to gain or lose a lot of .gov $$$, this makes me feel somewhat good about him. What is surprising is that we have an awesome tool, called Google. Combine that with the right search terms and you can find government and business information that will paint an accurate picture of all of the candidates, yet most folks still rely on the media to tell them who to vote for.

Newt is an interesting fellow. His relationships w/ healthcare companies who commit fraud is quite surprising for anyone who pokes around. Gingrich's College Course Linked to Republican PAC : Politics: House panel is reviewing complaint about its financing. Speaker maintains his class is nonpartisan. - Page 3 - Los Angeles Times

Bring it on. I aint skert.