jgrauman

i hear ya, the xd and pt140 are about a half inch shorter. the only thing with the m&p is the price. that's what i like about the taurus, NIB for under $400. hell that's what the xd's used to be. i went and looked at a pt140 and another xd today, they wanted $399 for the pt140 and $505 for the xd. if i was to get another xd i would want a stainless one, and can't find one around here anywhere. might go up to benton's sunday and see what they have, i just dont' like going up there if im not sure about buying something, i hate wasting the gas!

I have thought about it, but i really want another sub. i love my xd's but thought i'd change it up a little, but have only owned on taurus and it was a revolver. i read some good reviews about the pt145's and thought i'd check em out. thanks for the response

nobody else?

thinking of getting one... any thoughts or experience pt145 in .40. thinking of this one or another xd sub .40 in SS

very good points molon. I have a hard time understanding why so many police officers have a problem with law abiding citizens carrying legally in the first place, be it open or concealed.

while i was a in college a buddy and i were mistaken as two robbers and had 5 patrol cars do a felony stop on us in the middle of the street. ripped out of the car at gun point thrown on the hood and handcuffed. He was even put in the back of one of the patrol cars. they questioned us and realized the mistake, told us to be careful and let us go. pretty sure it was for their protection. edit: this was in VA

molon, that's what i said, age was the aspect that the crooks look at as a weakness yeah dave, that's exactly what i said. and there's nothing about age of the trained man, just a TRAINED man.

65 years old?! 54 years old?! no offense to the age, but come on, that's asking for a robbery. First Tennessee, no more than 100 yards from my house, has been robbed twice in the last year at gun point. they have armed "security guards" that work there as well. these guys carry revolvers they've probably never shot and open the door for people. oh, and they are out of shape and at least 50. again, no offense to the age, but that's no deterant to rob a bank, that's a free pistol to the robber. everytime one of these guys opens the door for me while standing BEHIND it i think, " if i kick that door, you're going down." put a trained man with an AR on an armored truck or at the door to a bank and see how many people try to rob it. crooks are the best at spotting weakness, they have learned to find it all their lives, that's how they survive. "shot one guard in the chest, then went around the vehicle and shot the second guard as he tried to unholster his gun, police said." no disrespect to the guards that lost their lives, but they were out of their league if a single man took out three of them with a handgun. rather than looking at this for what it is, a security company that does not protect their employees with proper training, the SOB's turn it into anti-gun propoganda.

i've heard good things about the blackhawk serpa, but have no personal experience with them.

:doh:i understand that and wrote it twice in this thread. as long as the same discretion is given for everyone. are you seriously not getting the point here or are you just enjoying the back and forth with everyone?

if you want to take this personally, then take it personally, i'm arguing a moral concern in law enforcement that obviously many citizens in this nation share. write a ticket, don't write a ticket, that's between you and your character and integrity, just don't respond to valid points on the subject with smart a$$ responses. debate the facts, and the facts are that the law enforecment profession is looked upon with great resentment due to its lack of character and overall stance on integrity for the position it holds in our society. Plane and simple. you can argue the small points of it all you want, be it writting your mother or pulling over a fellow LEO, the reason you feel you're being attacked is not due to the lack of LEO's on this forum or the greater number of "cop haters," it's due to the number of citizens that have a lack of respect for LEO's... the majority. I for one cannot sleep at night when i do a job and go home and think that maybe i should not have done that. and i'm just a lowly electrician.

they do have leeway. they can give written warnings or verbal warnings, that is up to their discrection. as i stated before , not just a free pass with the flash of a badge.

why the hell would you field strip your weapon in that situation? if i'm at a point where i have 55 seconds to do that, i'm going to be bandaging the stump on my wrist and keep one in the chamber for anyone coming around the corner.

"BS stories" and "cop haters" hmmm "not having a clue of what they are talking about" so since we aren't cops we don't have a clue? this is about character and integrity, not being a cop. you have a tough job dave, but it's a job. you are an employee that has rules he should abide by, unfortunetly it's a high profile job that is under a lot of scrutiny due to the lack of integrity that some cops show, a lot of the time, in the open. i'm not a cop hater, as i said, i have 5 friends that i grew up with who are cops and i don't hate them nor do i hate their profession. but because of situations that have been mentioned, and your honest statements of letting your fellow officer friends off, your profession will continue to be under scrutiny for such actions and will never gain the respect of us "ordinary citizens."

im not arguing that line of thought either dave. if my friend has had my back then damn right i'm going to have his. but breaking the law, be it speeding or anything else, is breaking the law. you want to write them a warning or give them a verbal one on the record then so be it, as long as you do that for everyone else in the same situations. your job does not grant you the right to break the law. i run my own company as an electrician. if i don't act professionally i don't get business. if i employ people that don't act professionally or do their jobs correctly, if i let them slide on following the rules, houses burn down, people get hurt. last october my best friends dad was driving home the weekend before her wedding and was t boned by a trooper doing 90, not on a call, the guy had to be wheeled down the aisle to give his daughter away. I'm just saying, those rules are for all of us, your JOB does not entitle you to break them.

I have many friends in law enforcement and one who is a friend of a friend. he in particular absolutely lowers my respect for them. He's a big drinker and when i've gone out with him he loves to get in to trouble just so he can pull out his badge and say "it's okay, i'm a cop." it drives me crazy. another who is actually a friend of mine only goes to bars that hook him up with drinks and has let off our friends on things that anyone else would have gone to jail for. So since we've been talking about statistics, that's two of six that i know personally. So 1 in 3 cops abuse their position

ETSU had a required class to be taken in your first two years of school. "Probability and Statistics" great class, they taught how to find, disect and conclude statistical information and the ways that information is manipulated

hey tim, i've got a couple xd .40's and a h&k usp .40 if you want to try those out i'm a member at carters and would be glad to let you try them out.

I just talked to my buddy and he told me he found it on here http://state.tn.us/safety/handgun/qualifications.htm this is the only info i could find though. "Effective July 1, 2005, Tennessee handgun carry permit law will now allow certain applicants already exempt from complying with firing range provisions of the current statute to also be exempt from any classroom requirements. Those current exceptions are applicants who proof to the department that within five (5) years from the date of application for handgun permit, the applicant has: Been certified by the police officer's standards and training commission, or successfully completed training at the law enforcement training academy; or successfully completed the firearms training course required for armed security guards; or successfully completed all handgun training of not less than four (4) hours as required by any branch of the military."

i'll talk to him and find out exactly what he was told and from whom before i start saying, "i think it was...."

I recieved mine 2 weeks after being fingerprinted. a buddy of mine who is a retired Ranger took the class with me, went through the entire process and waited 2 months... come to find out, if you have served there is a way around all that, you just have to fill out a different app and you're pretty much good to go.

I thought he asked some pretty good questions and would have loved to hear Kerry's answers.

After reviewing the evidence i stand by my original statement. the cops never should have stepped up in the first place. he's out of time so lets go grab him up? sure AFTER the cops grab him he begins to resist and then it escilates from there. and kerry says, "that's alright, let me answer his question" after they cut off the microphone and before the cops laid a hand on him. somebody didn't like the questions he was asking so they cut the mic off? then the cops begin to escort him out? shouldn't have ever happened, kerry may be an idiot, but he's a professional politician that can handle himself in the face of a few blunt questions from a 21 year old college kid. they should have let him handle it from the debate side. not sure about those that think the kid got what he deserved, this isn't a police state, we do have a right to confront the politicians we ALLOW to speak for us. they work for us, not the other way around. if they do something we don't like then we should be doing the escorting out.

i would have to see the video, but from the report here, seems a little excessive. Kerry said it was okay and he would answer the question. had they let him finish his questioning and let kerry answer, this would never had been an issue, but again, i would have to see the video to see if the kid was being an idiot

although his name is the headline for the school, haywood hand is a great man. he was my high school football and baseball coach a decade ago. talk about somebody who has integrity, he taught me a lot about respect and true work ethic. he left my high school and started his own company where i worked for 3 years. i'm not defending the rediculous decision to change the logo and i don't know his stand on firearms, but i'm guessing he had some pressure from the school board due to VT being right down the road.