monkeylizard

Yep. We're conflating 4 different issues in this thread: The method of storing energy - ICE mostly wins this one because gasoline refills are fast and available everywhere effectively creating unlimited range. EV gets a bonus because it's easy to start each day with a full "tank". Cost - ICE wins the up front costs and major repair costs. EV wins maintenance/operating costs and is closing the gap on both up front and major repair costs. External control - Tie. This ranges from annoying (subscription to use your seat heaters) to frightening (remote disabling/controlling). Neither is immune from it. Right-To-Repair - ICE wins for now because that horse is out of the barn. EV is the emerging tech the mfg's are trying to fence in. All 4 are mostly independent, but since EVs are generally closer to the cutting edge of technology and are usually loaded up with more of it, they're currently more likely to get caught up in #3 in the near term. In the medium term, all ICE cars will see the same thing. There's likely no significant long term for ICE as far as new production goes. Toss in the government meddling trying to force consumers to EV who don't want to go so it adds to our EV con list and makes it an emotional rather than rational conversation. Nobody likes to be told what to do. That stops critical thinking skills to where we can't see the advantages of EV (performance, always full at the start of each day, lower operating costs, enough range for most needs) and only focus on the negatives (high up front cost, not really green like advertised, limited public charging infrastructure, charging times, and limited heavy-duty availability for those who need it).

I here I was thinking I was a bad person for always leaving the pull-a-part with a pocket full of fuses . . .

People used to to swap the engines out of the old Hertz Shelby Cobra Mustangs.

Since when did we have "normal" members?

If that comes to pass, it would apply to ICE just as much as EVs.

. . . any job that requires road travel (including construction and landscaping), all retail, government offices/services, gymnasiums, churches, hospitals, corporate office buildings, basically every job . . .

Yeah . . . because the owner of an ICE car would never be told "Your car needs a new engine" or "Your car needs a new transmission". Batteries are more now than a new engine/trans but battery costs are continuing to fall. Five to ten years from now I expect they'll reach parity cost with an ICE replacement. And with battery packs expected to still retain 90% of their charge after 200,000 miles, their replacement cycle will likely be as good or better than an ICE engine or trans.

Do you mean school teachers? Or warehouse workers at the Smile Direct Club? Or office workers at Lockheed Martin? Or Postal workers? Or Wal-Mart employees? Or grocery store cashiers and stockers? Or food court workers in an Indiana shopping mall? Or literally nearly any other place on the planet where violence is not expected but still happens? Yeah, those people (literally everyone who doesn't have armed security inside a fully secured facility) should change jobs to another one equally likely to experience violence instead of being prepared to defend themselves.

Smells like laundry up in here.

All you have to change is the head unit. No speaker change required. Just be sure to get one with a built-in AM/FM radio. I would expect they all would, but these days I wouldn't bet on it.

I think everyone agrees with that. The real issue is getting caught for some reason when you DIDN'T have to use it. Then you're still getting fired.

It's basically the same as sleeping with the owner's wife. Not illegal, but you're getting fired if you get caught.

We'll never unsee it if ya'll don't quit quoting it!

Or a drop of peppermint oil. They HATE peppermint.

Ugggggh . . . Kind of reminds me of Kentucky Conan! I'm pretty sure David will give someone 2 weeks of shore leave to "think about your actions" if that ever gets posted again.

I'd say it's a fair bet it's pretty much the same thing. And we see how that turned out. Like it or not, we will move to non-gasoline engines. The only real unknown is how quickly. China is investing heavily in EV infrastructure and their HUGE upwardly mobile middle class is driving the entire world market. China has already passed the US to become the world's largest car market. EVs are still fairly new and are more expensive up front than similar ICE cars and a battery replacement is more expensive than a comparable engine replacement in an ICE car. But a $15K battery pack today cost what, $25K 10 years ago? What happens when a battery pack lasts about as long on average as an ICE and costs about the same as a new engine replacement? And charge times are down to under 10 minutes or rapid battery pack swaps are available? That day is coming. I know we're not there yet. I don't have an EV and wouldn't yet have one as my only vehicle. The cost structure and the infrastructure isn't ready yet and I'm not in the "early adopter" segment but I'm glad that some people are. They're helping make the EVs better and drive down the costs for the rest of us who will have to switch sooner or later. I don't plan to buy another car for around 5 more years, and I'll definitely be looking at EV.

Why? How does it benefit you for someone else to be stranded? On the EV forums they could post a similar photo of an ICE car stranded out of gas and say "I hope this happens a lot more". Sure it's more convenient to quickly refuel an empty ICE with a gas can than to tow it, but the same basic principal can happen to either type of energy. You gotta watch your fuel/battery gauge. One advantage an EV has that few people with ICE cars have is that you can almost always start your day with a full charge. Plug in at home each night and you always start on Full. Someone brought up a mass evacuation like a hurricane. That's definitely a challenge, but it's also a challenge for ICE cars. Lots of people never make it all the way because they run out of gas and the one gas station for 20 miles ran out hours ago. Last winter there was a big snowstorm somewhere that stranded a bunch of people for a day or two. Gas cars were running out of fuel overnight, mostly because few were on full tanks when the day began. But there was at least one guy in a Tesla who stayed warm all night and was able to drive home after the road reopened because he started the day on a full charge. Another byproduct of the ICE cars in that situation was breathing in toxic fumes. When a car is moving, you don't get that effect, but packed together on a closed roadway and everyone idling, lots of those toxic fumes pool around the car and cars are not airtight.

I don't know Indiana law, but in TN if a shooting is judged (by an actual judge) to be self-defense, no civil suits can be brought against the shooter.

And he landed 8 of 10 shots under duress. Pretty dang good at 129 feet with a crazy adrenaline rush.

I don't like carrying my passport unless I have to. It's one more thing to keep up with and try not to lose and it doesn't sit neatly in my wallet like my DL does. that's the only reason I'll be doing the RealID. Side note: Mrs. 'lizard and I have TSA Pre-Check and it's usually great. When it's time for renewal, we'll be switching to Global Entry. It's only a few dollars more than Pre-Check and includes all of Pre-Check's benefits plus it fast tracks us through CBP's customs check points on international arrivals.

I'd be even MORE afraid to Google THAT!

But those lose the trunk (or most of it) to get the frunk. EVs have both. I was mostly referring to future design possibilities that the buying public isn't ready for yet. There are some pretty wild ways to design a transportation device when the motors are in the wheels and the energy storage (aka "battery) can be incorporated into the structure of the car. There are some very cool lab-only inventions in the works now with carbon lattices storing electrons. Think of parts like the frame of the seats, the steering column, the door panels, the headliner panels, etc doing double duty as batteries. You can't do that with gasoline. Tech like that is lab-only now, and will be terribly expensive in its first applications outside the lab, but some day we'll see some amazingly cool takes on how to design a car using these coming technologies.

That was the old premise and yes, it was a lie in the total cost of ownership but not in the daily/monthly expenses. The cost of electrons to go a mile is lower than the cost of gasoline to go a mile. Plus regular maintenance is cheaper (no oil changes, brakes last a lot longer, coolant lasts a lot longer, etc.). We're getting closer to them being basically break even. You'll pay more up front for a comparable EV, but cost of ownership is lower. You'll pay less for an ICE, but cost of ownership is higher. For now the total is still higher for the EV vs a comparable ICE. The new premise is instant torque, amazing performance, convenience of "filling up" at home, less localized air pollution in high-density urban areas, and they still have the lower cost of maintenance vs ICE cars. Over the next decade we're going to see big growth in the charging station availability and charging speeds. It's going to take a quantum leap in battery tech to be able to charge one from 5% to 100% in 5 minutes or less the way we can fill a gasoline tank now, but the gap will close. We'll also see new designs that the EV platform makes possible by the removal of the engine (we already have "frunk" storage) which could never be done with an ICE engine. The eco-friendliness is at best misleading and at worst a lie. It depends a lot on where your electricity comes from. Here in TN we get a lot from nuclear, coal, and NG fired plants. Many of our older fossil-fuel plants have been updated with way more efficient processes and air scrubbers so they're less polluting than they used to be. Out west, there's more solar which does make less CO emission during energy production. But the solar panel production is pretty unfriendly to the environment. Then again, so is building a coal plant, mining coal, and storing the coal ash so pick your poison.

This. Plus only a small percentage actually has a permit to begin with. The odds of an armed citizen being in position to stop an active shooter aren't great. IF there happens to be one nearby, you have to factor in btq96r's point about mindset and their willingness to engage and their ability to put lead on target. The odds of all those things happening are not high.