RobertNashville

It was my understanding that all Carmike cinemas had a no firearms "policy"; properly posted or not.   However, the only problems I've ever herd of were with those who openly carried; not a terribly smart move in a place with such a policy and given the fairly recent movie theater shooting in Aurora (now all the pro OC folks don't get excited; I occasionally OC but definitely not in a place where there is a no firearms policy!).   I rarely go to movies anymore...usually wait for them to hit DirectTV, Netflix and/or Amazon but when I do go to a movie I try to find a theater that isn't posted' legally or otherwise.

It isn't although it would be illegal if you gave it to someone residing in another state and it didn't go through a BG check...I don't know how easy it would be for Chicago gestapo to check on that. :shrug:   Likely more problematic would be lying about giving the gun(s) away when they were still in your possession of in the possession of someone who didn't have the "proper" FOID card.

I can understand why you would want to remove guns from the home/possession of someone who, for example, is truly suicidal or has been convicted of a violent felony but there is ZERO reason or justification for just taking firearms like this...these firearms have $$$ value and no one should have to lose the value of these weapons just because they can no longer legally own the weapons...someone should at least get the money and it shouldn't be Chicago (of course they really do need the $$$ since they are in almost as bad a financial as most of the libitard run cities and states).

The Chicagoland Gestapo are hard at work I see...yet another reason why I NEVER set foot in Illinois...if my unalienable right to keep and bear arms is not respected and protected then I know that my money is unwelcome. It's a shame too...I lived in North Chicago for a couple of years and for years after I moved I continued to visit Chicago's museums and theaters and restaurants (not to mention start my recurring trips down Route 66). I hope that the good people of Illinois (and I know there are many) will take their state back and restore sanity. Until then, I have been and will continue to drive AROUND Illinois to get to places and avoid spending a penny in the communist state of Illinois.

They also have a responsibility to not cause harm; something these cops were either never taught, forget, or didn't care about.   If you/others are convinced they had to move her then why didn't these cops at least move her in the proscribed way to move a potentially injured person???  Do they get a pass for that as well?   If folks are okay with cops ignoring the most basic rule of first aid (something I would think would be pretty important for a cop who probably routinely responds to auto accidents to know) then why don't we just ignore the "always assume a gun is loaded" rule of firearm safety...I mean, it's just a suggestion anyway.

Whatever you want to blame it on, "no spare tire" has been a pretty normal thing in many cars for quite a while now, at least a few years.   It saves weight and space (which means costs and MPGs).   However, it's been my experience that most of the vehicles offer either a full-sized or a temp spare as an option.   Personally, I don't like not having a spare but whether you really need one or not really depends on the consumer/situation.

Violent by who's standards?   Had she suffered any spinal/neck injuries as a result of the accident then what they did was far more than sufficiently violent to cause massive additional trauma to her spine or even cause significant damage when there had been none up to that point...she did not need to be and should not have been moved from her vehicle but if there had been imminent danger/they truly had to move her then there is a proper way to move a potentially injured person to limit risk of additional injury; these officers are either too stupid to know that or didn't care. Not moving a potentially injured person is as basic to first aid as "a gun is always loaded" is to basic firearm safety. They had other options to get control of her and secure the vehicle - they chose not to use them - they deserve to be disciplined.

I'm not exaggerating anything.  If you think you can look at a person and judge whether they have a spinal injury based on your perceived severity of the accident then you are fooling yourself at the victim's expense; anyone who has worked more than a few accident scenes knows just how foolish that is.  As to the degree of force they used ANY force was irresponsible and excessive because it was 100% unnecessary and 100% against even the most basic first aid.   I don't know why you want to dismiss the actions of these cops but their actions were absolutely wrong...absolutely irresponsible...absolutely stupid and there's not a chance in hell you are going to change my mind on this.

  Or maybe they could have turned her car off and held her in place in her seat instead of violently pulling her our of her vehicle until medical arrived (if they ever got around to calling them). There is noting "silly" in this argument other than those arguing that violently pulling this woman out of her car was justified because you simply don't move a potentially injured person unless there is no other choice and if you do have to move them you do it in a way to minimize any potential harm which means you don't pull them out of their vehicle, handcuff them behind their back and plant them face first on the pavement like they just shot someone.         I'm all for supporting cops but these cops acted stupidly...they acted against the most basic principles of first aid and they deserve to be and I hope they are disciplined for doing so before they do this to someone else and kill them.   I'm not an expert in much but even though it was a while ago, after 20 years running as an EMT I do know I'm absolutely right with my view of this issue.    I'm out.

Are you really going to tell me it's "standard procedure" to violently pull someone out of vehicle that's just been in an accident? Because if you are then is PISS POOR PROCEDURE and it needs to change because it's idiotic.   What is so damn hard to understand that you don't move a potentially injured person and you sure as hell don't violently pull them out of a vehicle when they've just been in a wreck regardless of whether they are drunk going into diabetic shock or anything else. There was ZERO reason to violently pull that woman out of her car except for stupid, irresponsible cops being stupid and irresponsible.

I'm not talking about differentiating between a medical condition and being high on bath salts of anything else...it doesn't matter whether she was drunk or going into diabetic shock nor did they need to make a determination before moving her because it was irresponsible to move her; much less drag her out of her vehicle.   I'm talking about basic first aid...I'm talking about qnce you are past the basic A-B-C of first aid the most basic rule is to NEVER move an injured person and most especially so when there can be spinal/neck injuries (and you ALWAYS must be concerned with spinal injuries in a car accident) unless they are in immediate danger - anyone who has ever taken any basic first aid class should know that and most certainty a first responder should damn well know that.   There is no reason to play "what if'...the car wasn't on fire...they did not have to drag her out (pretty violently at that) from her vehicle just to turn it off...they did not have to drag her out to secure her until medical arrived...they did not have to drag her out and they most certainly didn't have to put her face down on the pavement in handcuffs.   If folks want to think these cops acted responsibly that's fine, I don't agree and never will.

Apparently they never took beginner's first aid either.

No one is overrating...what those cops did was still stupid and irresponsible; period.. Even if she had been drunk it was stupid and irresponsible to drag a potentially injured person out of the car like that.   If anything they should have made he stay in the vehicle and kept her as still as possible until medical had gotten there; not strip her out of the vehicle, handcuff her and put her face down on the pavement and walk away....they still could have easily turned the vehicle off without risking injury to her or anyone else.

One of the MANY things I learned in Massad Ayoob's MAS20 "Rules of Engagement for the Armed Citizen" is that the victim (the person who defended his life) and his attorney must, with the help of expert witnesses, be able to explain his actions, educate the jury and counter all the stuff the prosecution will throw at you...you have to be able to articulate why you did what you did and why it was the correct action.   Why do you use the ammunition you use? Why did you keep firing? Why do you practice shooting so often; were you practicing so you could go out looking for a chance to shoot somebody?, etc.

I'm sorry but I simply can't agree.   It looks bad on TV because IT IS BAD.   Just because they got lucky that they didn't hurt her more is not sufficient to avoid punishment (and I can almost guarantee you that that if they've acted this stupidly and recklessly this time they've done it before and will do it again because stupidity and irresponsibility don't just magically appear once and then disappear).   There are certain basic knowledge a first responded should know and I'm absolutely sure they've been taught and one of those basic pieces of knowledge is that you simply do not move an accident victim unless it's necessary to remove them from greater danger...this concept is so basic that I'd bet most grade school kids know it.  I'm not suggesting that these cops should have their lives ruined but I'd suggest at least a month or two of leave without pay...something that will dip into their personal pocket book to get their attention and if the city is in any way training their officers to act this way then the city needs a damn good lesson too.   Citizens aren't criminals and they need to be treated with dignity and respect; especially when they've just suffered an auto accident...the courts can take care of punishment for a driver later if it's warranted; responding officers should treat them as victims (because that's what they are); not criminals and what they did to this woman, aside from the risk of injury, was to treat her as a thug/criminal. She didn't deserve that treatment; they deserve to pay for their irresponsibility.

The reason people are suggesting severe penalties is because we have reached the point in this society when, short of actual force, MONEY is all a government/government agency (or most people) understand or will respond to.   When incidents like this are just ignored you'll get more of them...make the city and/or the cops pay a hefty price and you have a decent chance of seeing some changes so that the next person they forcefully drag out of a car that's been in an auto accident isn't killed.

The video tells the ONLY story needed with regards to this discussion...you simply DO NOT DRAG A PERSON out of a car like that when the person has been in an accident...YOU JUST DON"T DO IT (unless you are an idiot or you just don't give a shit about the person).   Doing so is irresponsible...it's reprehensible...is just plain STUPID.   You don't need a damn checklist to know what anyone who has ever had a basic first aid class is taught.  :screwy:

No question that following the speed limit will usually result in no speeding tickets. But, it's not always a 100% because it's not always a certainty which car in speeding if the LEO is using Doppler radar and there are multiple targets.   Radar unit manufacturers and trainers may like to profess otherwise but there is and has to be a bit of human choice in the matter and they can chose incorrectly.  Plus; you put a bright red Corvette and a mini-van close to each other with the van doing 78 in a 70 zone and the Corvette doing 75 and I can almost guarantee you that more often than not, the 'Vette will draw the ticket for doing 78!  ;)

I was better than this punk and I'd bet you were too.   Sure, I did some dumb things when I was 17 but I never did anything even remotely close to Trayvon's actions nor would my parents have tolerated that kind of thuggish behavior.  I don't consider that luck; I consider that the result of having parents rather then sperm and egg donors.

There is a phrase that comes to mind that is true and has been true for thousands of years; there are none so blind as those who will not see.

The problem isn't with quotas if they exist; the problem is are cops ticketing/arresting innocent people just to meet them.   I view "red light cameras" in the same way.   I truly detest how folks down here (compared to the other states I've lived in) seem to believe that bright RED lights are mere suggestions that they should consider stopping at an intersection; I see drivers blatantly running red lights (and I mean they've been red for a few seconds) almost every day. So; I like that red light cameras may finally stop this dangerous behavior.  Unfortunately, studies have shown that red light cameras have almost nothing to do with safety and everything to do with raising revenue...for that reason, I oppose them.   Likewise, I'm opposed to any quotas that encourage cops to ticket drivers for minor or even non-existent violations just to meet their quota as I suspect those quotas have much more to do with $$$ than with safety.

Sorry...I was an EMT long enough to know that you NEVER move a potentially injured person PERIOD unless there is a very significant reason to do so (i.e. the car is on fire, etc.). Police officers who respond to traffic accidents day after day should damn well know that.   These cops were irresponsible and they had better be damn thankful that their irresponsibility didn't cause her more injury.

I see nor can I imagine any "facts" that can justify what the cops did to this woman.   1. You cannot tell how badly someone may be hurt just by looking at them or at the damage. I was in an accident this past April (lady turned left in front of me) that totaled my 2012 Nismo 370Z and the much large car of the woman who turned left in front of me...I walked away with a couple of scratches; she had to be taken by chopper to Vanderbilt where she spent over 3 weeks in the hospital.   3 [2]. Regardless of whether her condition was known or whether she should or shouldn't have been driving is a matter to be dealt with later; at the time of the accident she was an accident VICTIM with potential severe injuries and should have been treated that way.   4. Temperature of the asphalt?  This was New Mexico in July...what do you think the temp was! Hell, forget it was NM...how hot does the asphalt get here! How long can you leave your face planted on the blacktop on a July day...do you think you'll be burnt?  Why would that even mater anyway...there is ZERO reason to put someone face down on asphalt on a July day, in TN or NM.   5. Doesn't matter if she was drunk or not...drunks can be injured in an accident too...sure; the drunk is allegedly a criminal and the other (medical issue) isn't but once the accident happened the person was an accident VICTIM with the potential of severe injuries.   This was just a traffic accident; not the end of a high speed chase or a felony stop...short or a fire in a vehicle or some other imminent danger of death there is simply NO reason to drag a potentially injured person out of a car like that...it's beyond irresponsible and these cops should be disciplined for doing it.  Further, if this is a result of their training or lack of it then the city needs to be disciplined too.

Favts? What facts are you talking about? The facts are these cops treated this woman like a piece of garbage. Unless all of these cops were deaf dumb and blind They should have been able to see that she needed help. This wasn't some felony arrest with a gunfight that had just ended; It was just a stupid auto accident. Speaking of which, I was a volunteer EMT With my fire department for many years. The last thing I would do to someone involved in an accident Would be to drag them out of their car, handcuff them, and then lay them facedown on the hot asphalt. There are a few people on this forum who defend cops more than I do, but what these cops did cannot be defended.

I hope she sues them for about $20million and wins...there is simply no excuse for that kind of idiocy...even if she had been drunk she deserved better treatment than that.   Hell, the cops usually treat fleeing felons they've caught after a foot chase better than that and will call for medical if the thug even has a scratch.