RobertNashville

I pocket carry a Ruger LCR; usually only because it's the only option available to me. I would never carry any weapon of any size/caliber in my pocket with the trigger exposed - to do so is simply a negligent discharge looking for a place to happen.

Isn't it PETA (or at least those who claim to be with PETA) who engage in things like throwing paint on (and ruining) multi-thousand $ mink coats, etc??? Overall, this is pretty mild (and non-destructive) compared to the stuff PETA does.

I think you figured him out, Dave. (just kidding) I've looked for REAL, scientifically conducted statistical research with multiple regressions concerning openly carried firearms vs concealed carried firearms...I haven't looked at every possible source but so far, I've found none. Oh there is plenty of "opinion" and some of the opinion sounds very convincing; even scientific...but at the end of the day, it's 99% anecdotes and opinions and proves nothing. Does CARRYING deter crime? YES!* Does carrying openly deter crime? Yes Does carrying concealed deter crime? Yes Are there advantages to openly carrying? Almost certainly yes. Are there advantages to carrying concealed? Almost certainly yes. All of which misses what should be the point! * The only true, scientifically conducted research into the effect on crime of the public being allowed, in most states, to carry a firearm can be found in "More Guns Less Crime". However, statistically, there is no distinction...no stats differentiating between Open and Concealed carry. Moreover, while many states do allow some form of open carry, most do not - most require carry to be concealed (at least I believe most still require concealment - if that's no longer correct then someone please correct me). What we do KNOW is that an armed public DOES deter crime and the arguments against the carrying of weapons by law abiding civilians fall flat on their face before the tidal wave of years, and yeas of experience and stats that show, not just a correlation but a true causal relationship between the increasing number of armed citizens and reductions in crime. I sometimes carry openly...I usually carry concealed but at the end of the day, I could not care less how anyone else chooses to carry; I just hope that they DO carry because it's better for EVERYONE if they do. I DO care about those so bent on openly carrying that it causes problems for others (by failing to use any discretion about how/where they are carrying) or those who carry for their own self-aggrandizement or because they want confrontation and to rub their "right" to carry into the face of the great "uninformed" sheep - those who carry for those reasons/in that manner are a determent to all of us.

So using discretion (which is just a more succinct way to say to "use the grey matter between your ears with regards to carrying a firearm openly" is pandering "to the emotional instability of others"? Really???

Agreed. I hope I didn't come across as "accusing him" of deserving to be robbed/assaulted. I was simply suggesting that he was engaging in some risky behavior. I liken it to a person going into an area of a city, maybe late at night, that he/she knows has a very high crime rate - that person certainly doesn't deserve to become a victim but it still wouldn't be a very bright thing to do.

You know...if you play with fire, you increase your chances of getting burned. We may see prostitution as a victimless crime...but prostitutes are criminals whether some people think of them that way or not and they very often associate with people who are also criminals; sometimes really scummy people who have no conscious and no qualms about robbing someone or worse. If you deal with those kind of people you are engaging in risky behavior and sometimes the risk turns into an actuality.

Two things... 1. The job of a LEO and even that of a uniformed security office is quite different than the job of an armed civilian - I'm suggesting that the reasons why uniformed officers carry openly have a good bit more to do with "policy" and their role/job than other considerations. 2. The fact that many people don't "agree" with any given position (be on about open carry or any other) does NOT mean they are closed minded. You are free to think your openly carried weapon is a deterrent; others may not agree - that does not make them closed minded and you open minded...it does not make them "right" and you "wrong" or the other way around; it simply means that they think for themselves and they don't agree with your position. I don't see why that should be a problem for anyone?

Is there a time limit on threads that I'm not aware of? I think the "school lock down" issue is "done"...but that that doesn't mean there aren't still some good points to make.

It's kind of a shame you weren't at Nashville TFA meeting last night, Adam Dread (sp?) who was the attorney representing the likes of Randy Rayburn in overturning the "Guns in Bars" bill was one of the guest speakers followed by John Lott (author of "More Guns Less Crime"). More Guns Less Crime is a book every proponent of 2ND Amendment rights ought to read (more than once); that aside, John is quit an incredible speaker and his wealth of knowledge about the role an armed public plays in deterring crime is beyond what you can probably imagine. A lot of the discussion last night centered around "reaching" those folks "in the middle"...how to approach them. Those are the people you want to talk too because the ones who are rabidly anti-gun and always will be (they will never change their mind); the others may well become gun right supporters (or at least not "anti") if the facts and arguments are presented in the right way. I'm not going to get into whether open carry is a good way or a bad way to "educate" people; I'll just say that coming off as confrontational or smug or just ranting about "rights" will never persuade anyone and can easily push someone "winnable" over to the other side. All that said, if you want to have something to hand out, I'd keep it simple and have it mostly be a notation of one or two website/sources where the person can look into on their own.

I would assume that there are few people stupid enough to carry openly if they didn't have an HCP. That said, even if this guy does have a HCP; I can say with some assurance that having a HCP is not a guarantee of having common sense; or any sense at all for that matter.

Well; he is a very "Republican Republican"; he just isn't and never was and never will be a "conservative". It's true that as a whole, most "conservatives" identify themselves with or at least vote with "Republicans" but there are plenty of Republicans, especially those in leadership and/or who have been politicians or in office for a long time who, even if they started out as conservatives, become less and less so over time. It seems to be a disease that affects everyone who works in Washington D.C. and the longer the exposure, the worse the infection gets!. Once a person is infected, it probably can't be cured - the only known treatment is voting the infected out of office. This is one area where I think our founders may have failed us simply because they didn't and likely couldn't foresee the concept of a "career politician"...if you simply live a conventional life, then serve in a state or federal government office for a time and then go home; the disease doesn't have time to take hold...make a "career" of being a politician; especially if you've never done anything else and the infection rate is almost 100%. I think we can see this happen with Marsha Blackburn (I think Diane Black was already infected before she got to D.C.) and it's probably time to bring both of these congresswomen home at the next available opportunity. Bottom line is, a true conservative, and for that matter, anyone who lives their lives based on real principles, doesn't have building a "consensus" as a goal...Alexander doesn't understand that; neither does McCain.

Probably a lot more than would be helpful for the point of the article. Of course we all know, it's the "gun" that's the problem in drug/gang related shootings!

You can get by (legally) in Tennessee with not informing, at least until you are asked, but (and this more of a general reminder, not really directed at you so much) that many states require you to inform an officer that you are armed and if you don't and you are you have just broken the law. All I'm saying is, for anyone who travels, you need to know the laws of each state you'll be traveling through. Now I know, most everyone knows that but I suspect there may be a few who don't (or just don't think about it).

An old saying comes to mind (don't remember who said it and I'm certainly paraphrasing here)..."Better to keep your mouth shut and be though a fool than to open it and erase all doubt". If an officer is thinking I may be guilty of a serious crime, I'd rater keep my mouth shut, even if it means I'm detained/arrested (because it raises the officer's suspicion) rather than say something stupid that can be use against me later. Getting detained and/or arrested and hopefully, later released is certainly inconvenient but a LOT better than getting convicted of something I may not have even done simply because I was trying to "cooperate".

It is, I think in every state, to lie to a LEO. It is also, I think, very good advice to not offer any statement that could be used against you which is why, most attorneys will tell you to say nothing. That said, I also think that saying nothing at all could lead to more problems/raise the officer's suspicion, etc. What I'm suggesting is that you need to strike a balance; say as little as possible - don't volunteer anything - be pleasant and cooperative as possible while still not giving any information that would be harmful to you and, above all, anything you do say needs to be truthful. Now...if the officer suspects you might be guilty of something really serious (as opposed to a traffic infraction) then yes; I'd say absolutely nothing except name, address and "Officer, I don't want to be uncooperative but I don't want to say anything else without counsel present"

The only time I've been stopped (TN HP) while carrying it was a total non-issue. The Lieutenant didn't even ask nor did I bring it up which I was a little disappointed in myself for not doing so. Based on training I've received about how to handle a traffic stop while armed as well as the fact that some states require to you inform up front (including some states I regularly travel in), I've always thought it best to at least hand the office my DL and my HCP at the same time but yet I didn't do so the only time I've been stopped! Not sure why I didn't; I just didn't. In any case, it was a non-issue; although I still got the ticket!

I don't expect people to be comfortable with others carrying a weapon...frankly, whether or not other people are or aren't comfortable with people carrying weapons is a secondary, even a minor issue. At the same time, I try not to carry in such a way that it makes others uncomfortable or in a way/in an area where it can cause a problem - I don't need that headache and, at least in my opinion, it can lead to a backlash against all of us who carry. I would suggest that most of the angst against people carrying weapons isn't about whether the weapon is carried openly or concealed...it isn't about whether it's "normal" or not...sometimes it is based on fear and and a lack of experience with/understanding of firearms but I truly believe, more often than not, it's based outright hatred of firearms in general. For those people, I find it odd to think that seeing others carrying a weapon openly is going to change their minds about the issue; in fact, it might well just reinforce their hatred of all things "firearms". I don't carry to make a political statement - I work on bettering weapon's related laws through the political process both directly through my own meager efforts and through my membership in and donations to groups that do the same. I don't carry to change people's attitudes about or comfort level with firearms...I do that by taking people to the range with me and through discussion and through being their friend. I don't carry to draw attention to myself (in fact, I would rather do precisely the opposite). Like TMF 18B stated, I carry to have a tool to protect my life and maybe the life of some other innocent person.

It gives my mind a rest.

Just a quick update...I posted about my problem with the stuck Emag on the FNH forum - one of the engineers (now retired) from FNH contacted me and advised me that the FS2K does NOT like Emags or Pmags for that matter; AR15 style only...he also gave me some pointers about how to get the mag released which worked well and I now have a functioning FS2000 again! I'm a little disappointed in that I bought a bunch of Emags (you know, for when the SHTF) because of their ruggedness and, I thought, interchangeability between both of my SCARs and my FS2000...I've only got a few AR15 metal mags so now I probably need to buy more of those.

Other than scattered anecdotal stories; that's opinion. It maybe right or it maybe wrong but still opinion. There is significant evidence/research to show that an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime. However, I've not found any research that quantifies whether criminals do or don't target "people with guns". Generally true (except where the potential reward is significant enough to overcome the risk of targeting a sheepdog). However, carrying openly doesn't make one a sheepdog nor does carrying concealed make one a sheep. Some are and some aren't and even the stupid wolf can be very dangerous, even to a well trained sheepdog.

And don't you think, just possibly, that with such a fear now ingrained in many people (justified or not) that we (those who do carry) need to be mindful of when and were and the possible reaction we'll get? There are times to push the envelope...there are times to be discrete and go unnoticed...the key is knowing which one to be and when.

I've never ordered from Bud's but I will say that no store/business is perfect...that's just life. What matters is how well or how poorly the store handles the problem once they screw-up. Maybe they were just having a bad day?

Yes, given that I've been a firearms enthusiast and a conservative all my life, I am insulted to be called a liberal or told that I'm "thinking like a liberal"; especially so when the accusation comes from someone who doesn't know me - to me, that SEEMS like Bovine Scatology. Who are you to decide anything about me, label me or take me to task on what you perceive to be my position on an issue we weren't even discussing in this thread? You have a lot of gull and poor manners to come onto a forum geared to firearm enthusiasts in Tennessee (a state you don't live in) and make assumptions about and apply labels to someone you have never met and know nothing about. It's also odd to make such assumptions when the "issue" you seem intent on making is immaterial to the point that was being made - my citing the law (Post 130) which you took exception to had nothing directly to do with the Second Amendment.- it was not nor was it intended to be a commentary on the rightness or wrongness, nor the constitutionality or lack of same with regards to Tennessee law as it currently stands. I cited the law to emphasize that refusing to use discretion about how and when and where someone carries a firearm in public can harm both their own ability to continue to carry in this state (under current law) as well as harm the carry population in this state in general. Even more odd that you want to continue to label me when I've already stated that I fully agree that we are supposed to have the right to keep and bear arms and that I understand the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" - why you seem to feel the need to infer anything else about my position on the matter makes it seem like you just want to find something to argue about. There is nothing wrong with living in Indiana and belonging to the Tennessee Gun Owners forum...likewise, there is nothing wrong with and you certainly can hold any opinion you want on anything or anyone you want, including opinions about me...however, insulting someone you don't know is at best, childish and, in my opinion, isn't acceptable conduct on a forum whether you are in Tennessee or Indiana.

Kind of sad to see this happen...as an employee of a major auto manufacturer (for 14 more days, anyway) it's sort of always a sad day to see such an iconic model disappear. It was necessary financially, of course and such cars as the Crown Vic are pretty very out of step with today's market but, still sad to see it happen. Yeas ago, I owned a Mercury Marquis (a '79 model I bought in '89) - it was a tank, huge...and a hell of a lot of fun to have (it was a second/commuter car for me as I've always bee a sports car nut at heart).

I'm up for it if it's on a day I can be there...do you have a place or would we have to find one?