RobertNashville

Wow...I can't believe that on a stunningly beautiful Sunday afternoon so many people are here, pretty much saying the same thing over an over again. I'm going out and shoot some'thin!.

I know a few anti's who absolutely feel that way...I've also seen a couple of them change their minds when they became a victim and realized that when it counted, they were completely at the mercy of a thug.

There should only be a trial if charges are justified - I haven't heard anyone say that a proper investigation isn't warranted or that charges shouldn't be brought IF justified. However; given the almost hysterical media circus headed by the two circus clowns (Sharpton and Jackson); I have little hope for a truly fair investigation here. I'm not giving either the shooter or the kid a pass; I just don't like and never will like trial by press or by an ill-informed public who wasn't there - I've see FAR too many examples where all the know-it-all's knew nothing had it dead wrong. And yeah...nothing better than "911 tapes" for facts. I've said many things in my life that could be problematic if the WHOLE story is known and in an extremely stressful situation where you may even feel you have to defend your life don't you think things could be said that could give a wrong impression which is why every firearms instructor that talks about self-defense shootings tell you the sorts of thing you should say to a 911 operator and to practice so that when you are in that stressful situation you don't say something you shouldn't.

Seems to me there are a lot of people (here on TGO, across the country and of course, Sharpton and Jackson) who seem to know a hell of a lot of "facts" about this. Yet, many of those "facts" tend to conflict with one another. Funny how that works.

Good points. I know that some people won't understand the true value of silver or think that the $1 on the silver eagle is what it should be worth. But, I think there will be enough people around who understand that it's the silver, not the $ figure on the coin that supports the valu - I guess if someone just doesn't or won't understand I would just have to find someone else to bargin with! Anyway, my silver is, as I mentioned, just part of an overall "cash" plan for a situation where I can't use a debit card/can't get money out of the bank, etc.,,I know that in a SHTF time, paper money will be worthless other than perhaps helping to start a fire. Or maybe as a substitute for TP!!!

True...then again, at least TP has as pretty easy to locate replacement (leaves, grass, etc.)...certainly not as pleasant to use but they can get the job done. It's the things that can't be easily replaced or substituted for that keeps me awake some nights!

Gee...a black man shoots a white man and we hear nothing about it...I can hardly believe it. Surely Al and Jessee are all over this, right?

Nothing. I thought it would be obvious that what it does have to do with is your statement where you said... I think arresting someone "based on sensationalized pressure from the press" is stupid, dangerous and a affront to our liberty - I believe that people should be arrested because and ONLY because the evidence justifies it and never because the media turns a situation into a circus. Is that some sort of radical view now? The two cases I referenced (and there are many more that I could have) I cited to show just how dangerous and stupid it is to arrest people based on sensationalist media. No matter how guilty anyone thinks Zimmerman is; this case needs to be handled on facts; not sensationalist media stories and not because Sharpton and Jackson want him crucified.

Yeah...you're right, they were white, not black (that's what I get for "remembering" rather than looking it up) but do you think that really makes a difference to my point? In both cases, people were arrested, based at least in part on sensationalist journalism whipping up a frenzy. And yea, good ole' Reverend Al and Revered Jessie were sure there calling "justice"...I"m so glad both are staying out of this one...oh wait...

In a SHTF world, ANYTHING yo have that someone else might want can be a basis of exchange; assuming you have enough of it to offer it in trade - extra food, ammunition, a firearm, a skill, etc. Given that, much of what we buy for that kind of emergency situation can become coinage which is why, if you can afford it, I think buying "extra" of those things is a good idea. Specificlaly with regards to coinage; I would say that anything that has a provable and identifiable metal content can be a good source of coinage but being able to establish the metal and how much is there is going to be key in establishing a value. Any U.S. minted coin from the correct time frame works well for that (commonly called junk silver/coinage). Personally, I happen to like 1oz bullion silver coins (mostly U.S. Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs) because there really can be no legitimate question about how much silver is there and while not quite as convenient as a bag of old quarters, one oz coins are still small enough to deal with. That said, my primary reason for having the the bullion coins as well as some paper dollars on hand is more for a "temporary" emergency rather than an all out SHTF situation..if something happens and I can't get to an ATM (or they aren't working) or people won't (or can't) take a debit card then what cash/coin I have on hand is going to be extremely important.

Really? You think that people should be arrested based on "sensationalized pressure from the press" IF it accomplishes something you happen to think needs to be accomplished? I remember some Duke lacrosse teem members who were arrested based a great deal on sensationalized pressure from the press. I remember some young black men who were arrested for raping Tawana Brawley because of sensationalized pressure from the press. How about we only arrest people based on EVIDENCE. Legitimate press where facts, ALL the facts are presented or a cover-up uncovered...yeah...that's good...that's one of the major functions of a legitimate press. Sensationalized stories that include some facts and leave other facts conveniently out of the story (so as to puss an already formed opinion) are another matter.

Unless someone is working some very strange hours I don't see why anyone would need to take time off work?? I did everything I had to do in my OFF HOURS. I took a Saturday class (Friday nights and Sundays were also available if I had wanted to do it then); the class was 9 hours including our meal break...it took me less than 15 minutes get my fingerprints taken and my time at the DMV, while tedious, was done late afternoon after work so I don't know why anyone would need two, let alone three days off work to get it done. I DO agree with you in principle that any law-abiding citizen should be able to carry without being required to have a HCP but it seems to me you are REALLY straining to make the HCP process a lot more costly and painful that it is. If you really dislike the permit process as much as you seem to then I hope you are spending at least as much time being politically active to get the law changed as you are spending time posting about it.

No one is punishing anybody...my point was that poor choices very often led to bad consequences and that will always be true whether the government is involved or not.

You can hold any opinion you want but you are the one who seems bent out of shape that I don't happen to share yours. I have a low tolerance for armchair quarterbacking even though everyone, including me, is guilty of it...I have an even lower tolerance of armchair quarterbacking that seems to demand I agree with the quarterback's assessment. Maybe that's not what you intended but that's how it came across. I'm glad you have it all figured out and I'll admit, it sounds bad for the shooter in this case but I've been around long enough to know that getting the whole truth from the media is VERY RARE and those who make up their minds about anything based on what the media has to say about it; even allege "facts" from other sources, will come to the wrong opinion a hell of lot more often than the come to the right opinion. I don't know who was in the right here...the one thing I DO know is that I don't know enough to know who is was in the right. Isn't that why we have trials?

Whatever the cost is; don't you think that is a bit moot if they've waited until that point that the need it NOW?

I said NOTHING of the kind. You seem to have a very unique way of reading what you want to read rather than what was actually said.How about you let ALL THE FACTS come out before you make up your mind and BEFORE you start arguing with people just because they don't happen to see things the same way you see them.

My comments about his parents are simply based on a half-century hearing news reports of such things and seeing family and friends defending little Johnny or Jenny - little Johnny or Jenny could be serial ax murderers caught with a bloody ax in their hand and many family and friends; yes...even parents will be in front of the cameras telling the world how "good" their kid is. My point, which you obviously missed, is that what this young man's parents has to say about him is worthless in terms of determining anything about the situation. I'm not defending or condemning anyone - if you believe you've got if figured out based on the 911 call that's fine; I just don't agree and what blows my mind, to borrow a phrase, is how someone who wasn't there can be so iron clad sure about who was trigger happy, what this kid was doing and even exactly what the police would have done "if only".

Some 17 year old kids walking home from the store are no threat at all...some are murderers (or at least are willing to be). I've looked "deep into myself" and I'm fine with "me". The only thing I'm "predisposed" to do is not snap to ANY judgment about anybody's guilt or innocence. You weren't there...I wasn't there...the 911 operator wasn't there but I'm fairly certain that if the DA feels he has enough evidence to get a conviction he'll proceed with charges; if he doesn't then I suppose I'm predisposed to think that the shooting was justified.

Those are all good questions and good points but don't you think the investigating officers and/or the DA asked similar questions? I suspect that if the DA really thought there was a case here they would proceed with one...since they didn't; I tend to think the shooter was, at least "legally', in the right. I'm NOT saying the shooter handled things the way he should or how I would...I tend to believe that drawing a weapon, much less discharging it is something we should actively seek to avoid...that that the armed citizen has a greater obligation to avoid such conflicts than a citizen who isn't armed. However, just because I think that doesn't mean this shooter was legally in the wrong.

I spent 30+ years in accounting and finance...I understand cost...and I'm sorry...I'm just not buying into the $2 grand argument - no offense but I really think you are overblowing the "cost" out of proportion more than a little.Including the cost of the firearm doesn't make sense...of course a person who is going to carry has to have a firearm but that has zero to do with whether there is or isn't a permit process at all. Trying to tie the cost of the weapon to the permit process is just not appropriate, not logical and not the way one calculates that cost of an activity. Yes...there is time involved. Is the process inconvenient; yes. Do I wish we had the option of Constitutional Carry; yes. Can I reasonably and rationally put a $ figure on the time I spent...not really and even if I could, I don't think it truly adds anything important to the argument. I did all my class time, DMV time, driving time, etc on my free time...I freely chose to spend that free time in that endeavor which is how I suspect most HCP holders do. However, the "time" is going to pass regardless of what I do during that time...I could have slept the same number of hours but I wouldn't say that sleeping "cost" me "X" $$$. Unless I'm actually spending time that would otherwise be earning me more money then trying to put a $ figure on it is just not reasonable unless you are going to price out everything you do in life in the same way.

The "little kid's" folks will always try to paint the kid as a good kid who was doing nothing wrong; the reality is very often much different than that. A 17 year old, armed or not, can be a dangerous animal if he want's to be. As has been said, what truly happened here is known to two people, only one of which is alive and in absence of real evidence to the contrary, I tend to side with the person who is still alive to relate the story.

I didn't spend anywhere even close to two grand for my HCP....more like $300 or so including ammunition. As for that handgun, whether we have a permit process or not you still need to have the weapon so its cost really shouldn't even be part of the equation.I don't particularly like the HCP process and I agree it could be done for far less cost and hassle but I just don't see it as prohibitively expensive. Further, I think most of us know that if we are truly going to prepare ourselves for the time when we may need to defend ourselves; we need a hell of a lot more training than the HCP class and that is generally going to mean professional classes that will usually cost a lot more time and money than the HCP process...if someone can't afford to get their HCP how are they going to afford the REAL training that they need to have? I'm all for "Constitutional carry" because I don't believe that a law-abiding citizen should need the government's permission to carry arms any more than we need permission to take breath but EVERYBODY needs ongoing training and that is not usually free.

I don't consider any of my firearms an "investment" - for investments I still buy mutual funds and some gold/silver (the gold and silver just because I like having something tangible with true value that I can hold in my hand). I buy firearms for a couple of different reasons; mostly because I like them and appreciate well-crafted machines and because they are fun to shoot and, because they could save my life. I don't think I'd really enjoy them much if all they were to me was an investment. That said, I do think is important to note that unlike most of the things people spend money on today, a good firearm is an asset that usually won't depreciate and generally will appreciate over time. Spend $1,500 on a flat screen and theater system today and five years from now you'll be lucky to get someone who will take it off your hands for free...spend the same money on a Dan Wesson 1911 and I'd bet you'll get your money back and then some in five years. That said, I wouldn't count on getting rich from collecting firearms but a good firearm will hold its value and usually, over time, at least keep pace with inflation...sometimes, it appreciates faster than inflation. I would suggest that any good quality firearm in any, as 6.8 AR said, "common calibers" will do well long term - they don't have to be incredibly expensive custom guns, just good quality firearms from manufactures with good reputations. "Plastic guns" (and I've nothing against them and have a few) will probably not hold there value as well as more "traditional style" firearms such as a good revolver or 1911 style handgun or say a Marlin or Winchester lever action rifle, Browning A-bolt, etc. Again, nothing against a Glock or similar; I just doubt that they'll be as desirable to have 50 years from now as a good 1911 or Marlin 30-30 would be.

Good point...Ran Paul seems (stress "seems" at this point) to have all of his father's good points but less radical on some of his father's other positions; I see good things for him in the future and I agree, I don't think his father would want to do anything to spoil that and pissing off most of the Republican party (along with a lot of other people who don't identify themselves as "Republican" but still want Obummer out of office) will never forgive the Paul family.