RobertNashville

Okay....so if they usurp your liberty THEN you have the right to murder them...got it.

  If by successful you mean they often are successful overthrowing the sitting government you are probably correct. However, if we measure success in terms of the new government being better than the one that was overthrown that's another matter and I'm not so sure insurgencies have been all that successful.   For our purposes here in the United States, "better" would probably be defined as a return to the confines of the constitution where personal liberty, freedom and limited government are embraced. However, if this mess we are in devolves into armed rebellion I don't think we can just assume that whatever government rises from the ashes will actually be the type of government we might want...we might wind up with a dictatorship or something just as hostile to freedom as a dictatorship!

I don't think I misunderstood.   Again, he said (paraphrasing here) that he thinks the correct and appropriate consequences for the legislators and the individual's liberty and the lickspittles in the media that support their totalitarian schemes with their propaganda is to kill them.   How many "legislators" are going to come face to face with a person (be an armed intruder) and attack them (which would be the only way to justify use of deadly force)? Anything else is murder.  :shrug:

Yes he is but ANY governor of Tennessee should have opposed the UAW in this instance. Tennessee has a vested (financial) interest both in terms of revenue as well as what the state gave to VW to open their plant here. Since VW didn't seem to care whether their plant went union or not somebody needed to step in and speak for the state's interest (which means OUR interest if we live here and pay taxes here). Whether it was Haslam, or whoever got elected four years ago.

I hope things get better...I truly do...good thoughts and prayers your way.

Crappy jobs, maybe. ;)

Yuup and I'm one of them.

Yeah...yeah...yeah...they put out the same "BIG TALK" at Nissan back a few years ago when they last tried to get Nissan to vote in their piece of crap union and Nissan employees rejected them 3 to 1.   The only thin the UAW is good for is protecting worthless, employees who need to be fired...for the 95% of the rest of a plant's workforce all they are is a huge drain on their pay while giving to politicians that most of the workforce probably detest. Thankfully, the good folks at VW were smart enough to see that and make the right decision.

Yeah...when people say they want to go and kill them (legislators and media supporters) that's what I think they mean.

The colonists didn't have the power of the vote nor the power of the internet for that matter.  There will be no good outcome to armed resistance and there certainly is NO justification for just going and "killing them" as was being suggested. I doubt any of the founders would have be supportive of assassinating King George.   As I've said many times, I think it's tool late to stop what's going to happen and there may be an armed resistance but I've no illusions about how I think that will turn out nor will I participate in murder or assignation of political leaders.

You can call it that but it still isn't "self defense"; justified or otherwise.   You said. paraphrasing, that you think the correct and appropriate consequences for the legislators and the individual's liberty and the lickspittles in the media that support their totalitarian schemes with their propaganda is to kill them. Well, unless those legislators and/or media types show up on your doorstep with guns blazing I don't see how you can call "killing them" as being "self defense".   You don't "kill" people because they have a different political philosophy than you do...you don't kill people because they violate the Constitution...you vote them out of office...maybe you put them in jail for crimes if they've committed any; but you don't "kill them".

I think that's called murder and I think that's illegal in most jurisdictions.   I see no "good" outcome for violent resistance; just a lot of dead people.

While we can estimate; no one can really know the cost until they are faced with the bill. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else here but it's one thing to say we've counted the cost...that we understand the repercussions when all we are doing is talking about it. It's quite another thing altogether to have several armed men standing at our door demanding to come it to search our home for "illegal" (i.e. "mean looking" weapons) or "illegal high-capacity magazines" or some other such nonsense.  It's good to think about it before that moment in time is confronting us but can anyone know what they will do until that moment has arrived? I truly doubt they can know. What are the consequences you think the average person can bring to the "state"?  Other than voting I can't think of any that can actually make a difference and I'm not sure even that can effect change anymore because I think we are too late.  What I'm expecting to happen is complete collapse of our economy which maybe...MAYBE will provide an opportunity to bring about real change for the good and a return to our founder's ideals (but with that opportunity also comes some very dangerous possibilities as well).

At first glance I can't say I disagree with anything you said above but I do think you left out something important; that being the power of the state.  The power of the state to enforce a law, be it a constitutionally valid law or not, is significant and if anyone is going to chose to not follow that law it should be done with the understanding of the cost involved.         I'm not saying that people should comply with unjust, ill-advised, unconstitutional laws but I am saying that one needs to be prepared for the consequences which could include financial loss, loss of liberty (jail), even loss of life (not to mention the repercussions for a person's family).

  You sort of missed the point.   Moving on...I don't know where you got the idea that speeding tickets aren't criminal charges; they most certainly are - most start out as Class C Misdemeanors and heard in general session courts in Tennessee. And a fine in hardly the only expense...Class C's carry fines starting at $50 and can include up to 30 days in jail but that doesn't include court costs or the impact of points on your DL or the likely increase in your insurance premiums that can cost many times the amount of the fine.

This is what happens when people simply chose to not obey the law...   http://conservativeoutfitters.com/blogs/news/12278653-video-this-is-why-they-still-call-oakland-the-wild-wild-west

Actually, I can't think of any law that can work or be enforced unless the vast majority of people follow it.  You need look no further than speed limit laws, especially on the interstate; I'd wager that the vast majority of drivers on the interstate purposely do not follow the posted speed limit. And why should they? Most speed limits are set by politicians and bureaucrats to cover the lowest common denominator, Our interstates can safely handle speeds far in excess of 55 or 65 or 70 MPH making one "set" limit inappropriate for most people. If a state wanted to they could stop and ticket everyone and keep every cop in every village, city, county and state busy writing tickets 24/7 but not only do they have better things to do (like address important crimes) it would bring travel on the highways to a standstill which isn't very good for commerce (meaning loss of business and loss of tax revenue, etc.) so only a minor amount of enforcement is done and everyone else, unless they are really acting irresponsibly, is left alone.   I see irresponsible gun control laws (and what gun control laws aren't irresponsible) no differently than irresponsible speed limits...if politicians pass a law that people inherently know is BS and violates their natural rights as human beings a lot of people are just going to ignore the law and when they do, all the stupid politicians can do is wring their hands and say "oh dear oh dear what are we going to do?".

Anyone who doesn't believe in evil is not paying attention as situations like this proves beyond any doubt that evil and evil people exist.   I'm not going to sully this officer's reputation by speculating based on absolutely nothing...why would anyone jump to "jealous husband" as a basis for this officer's death??? :shrug:   RIP to this fallen officer and prayers and condolences to his family.

I'm not a proponent of the death penalty and I generally try not to celebrate anyone's death but when someone so obviously deserves it it's difficult not to be pleased and it's a shame it took this long to finally see justice done.

Not taking anything away from the AR platform; it's certainly served well for many, many years now but it also took a long time to get where it is! However, I would suggest that in every measurable category, the SCAR platform is simply a better platform than the AR.   The SCAR is pricy (but for good reason I think) and most of the complaints I've heard have been minor/superficial and based on personal preference rather than objective rational.   If one has the money for one I can't think of one good reason not to buy one.

I have no trouble believing that this is true...the government is scared and they have reason to be.   The federal government...all of it... is almost completely corrupt (with a few...very few exceptions) and they are scared that the may finally be found out to be the worthless, corrupt, morally (and financially) bankrupt people they are. Even though this administration tries desperately to put a happy face on everything (even to the point of claiming that millions losing their jobs because of Obamacare is a "good thing") they are not stupid...they know that the economy is going down the sewer and they know that when it collapses (and I think we may well be too late to stop it) people...ALL PEOPLE are going to be mad as hell and looking for answers and looking for someone to blame and to extract justice from...and the government is scared because they know they'll likely be the ones people are looking to blame. The government's only hope is to try and blame someone else...the Jews ew...the "rich"...the "whites"...the "old"...whoever proves to be the easiest to blame or all the above.   We are heading for a world of hurt that will make the great depression look like a minor market correction.

Yeah...I don't know off hand how many mags I have but it's at least 20 and although I paid a premium for a few most were no more than $30 or so

This sounds pretty cut and dried to me; at least based on the stories I've read.  I haven't seen in any of the stories anything that would indicate that the shooter's life was ever in danger or that he had any rational reason to believe he was in danger. As such, his claim of self defense should be a non-starter.   I had hear early on that the shooter claimed that the three in the SUV had a shotgun and was or had pointed it at him but apparently that was either a lie by the shooter or he imagined something that just wasn't there.   As armed citizens we have a higher duty to avoid conflicts when we can.

I don't do much shopping out these days anywhere and even less so at WalMart...seems that every other day someone is getting shot in a WalMart parking lot and try not to go to places that are that seem unusually prone to gunfights.

Very, very sorry for your loss, Tanker - I lost my Mom last May (2013) and it still hurts. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise because I lost my father in 2001 and that still hurts too.   I think that when we lose someone close we have both the memories and great sadness. Eventually, however, the hurt subsides and the memories will still be there.   Take care.