RobertNashville

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353179820' post='847269'] Huh.... The OP was advocating giving gun rights to criminals. And as far as I was aware once convicted of a crime, even domestic violence, you ARE a criminal. Now maybe we live on two worlds but in my world someone who has been convicted or pleads guilty to a crime is a criminal. Dolomite[/quote] Society can and already does restore rights to convicted "criminals" after they have served their sentence and met other appropriate conditions. I would think that whether and under what conditions that should or should not be done seems like it would be both an appropriate discussion to have here and an interesting one as I think there can be good arguments made on both sides of the issue.

[quote name='Murgatroy' timestamp='1353111840' post='846924'] Gordon, I agreed with you when the link was still there. Posted as much. To the folks that feel that the issue WAS related to our 2nd Amendment Rights, you mean to tell me that in the wake of everything we try to do by the rules, you advocate giving criminals guns? I am appalled. This is a privately owned and operated forum. It can be operated however the owner feels it needs to be operated. It is not a democracy. Your opinion doesn't matter. While that is harsh, it is the way it is. I am however glad that this site is operated in such a manner as to make our opinions valid, but at the end of the day, they aren't required. [/quote]Either you didn't read the thread or didn't understand what was being said as no one was advocating "giving criminals guns". Also, no one disputed that this is a privately owned and operated forum and I'm glad it's well moderated.

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1353122031' post='847006'] Robert, I'm about as ProGun as it comes... And the parking lot bill is a BAD bill, and I can't support it. The argument you make is that of a progressive who believe they know what is best for me and my property...[/quote] I understand you don't agree with me but why start slinging terms like "progressive"? I believe your argument is flawed , in part, because you refuse to recognize the very clear distinction between private property and business property; a distinction the law and society has recognized for many, many decades and for very good reason...I'd hate to live in any society where a "property owner" could do anything he wanted with no regard to society or anyone else. No single right is absolute be it the right to carry arms or to practice (or not practice) religion or engage in speech or the right to own real property and use in any way desired. However, whether you agree with me and for that matter, whether I agree with you is immaterial because your argument has been tested in courts in states where similar "parking lot" legislation has been been put into place and the courts have rejected your arguments. Sure, there are plenty of laws relating to firearms that stand improvement and I'm doubtful any real movement will be made on a parking lot bill for the next two years but if we can get a good parking lot bill passed into law in Tennessee I'm certainly for it.

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1353105218' post='846849'] Stopped by two groceries on the way home. Not a twinkie or ding dong to be found. Only crowds of confused people staring at empty shelves. Did score a box of cupcakes and Suzy Q's. The madness had begun......[url="http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=twinkies&_sacat=0&_from=R40"]http://www.ebay.com/...cat=0&_from=R40[/url] [/quote]I'm sorry to hear that...I really wanted to at least have a couple of Twinkies and perhaps a couple of cup cakes before they are gone forever.

[quote name='DaddyO' timestamp='1353102600' post='846826'] I can even see them passing a law that says if you currently have a 401K, then you have to choose... either your 401K or government retirement (including Social Security), but not both. Bastards. [/quote] Just a decade or two ago, someone who actually saved for their own retirement and ran their financial life responsibly would have been held up as an example of how to life. Now, if you have any money at all you are part of the "evil rich" and you deserve to be punished.

Doesn't surprise me at all and with the current make-up in Washington, they might even get something like this through (perhaps with "grandfathering in" existing plans and/or putting caps on how much can be put away. After all, a retired person who doesn't need a government every month is a VERY dangerous individual (when they need totally dependent sheep).

In a class I audited (so I could attend further training from the range) they used smaller targets (although they don't tell their students that they are using smaller targets than required) but at usual distances...in the class I audited no one had a problem meeting the shooting requirement.

[quote name='laktrash' timestamp='1353097400' post='846769'] Little debbie is alot cheaper [/quote]Which may have something to do with why their products don't taste as good. I figure that if I'm going to eat unhealthy food I at least want it to taste as good as possible; if I have to pay a few cents more to get the taste I'm okay with that.

Frankly, I prefer realism in zombie movies.

[quote name='laktrash' timestamp='1353093617' post='846726'] There's still hope [img]http://sweetiesreviewteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/little-debbie-cloud-cakes-review.jpg[/img] [/quote] Nope...not as good. I don't know why but Little Debbie always seems to just not taste as good as the Hostess items they are similar to (or imitating).

[quote name='LagerHead' timestamp='1353095606' post='846753'] Yep. Ask the government to exercise a Constitutional right, or ask the government to exercise a Constitutional right. Not a whole lot of difference to me. [/quote]The reality is that we must do exactly that. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is and it has been that way in Tennessee for a very long time and it's OUR FAULT and the fault of everyone who has gone before us and allowed the legislature to take a "right" and turn in into a privilege through the passage of laws that should never have been proposed; should never have passed; should never have become law and should have been overturned by the state supreme court.

[quote name='Spots' timestamp='1353096442' post='846763'] If they keep pushing Israel for a fight they are gonna get exactly what they want. And they are not gonna enjoy it when they do. [/quote]Could not agree more. No one can predict the outcome of a battle or a war but I suspect that any arm who faces Israel will rue the day they made that decision.

[quote name='S&WForty' timestamp='1353092365' post='846718']That sure is a good perspective. It's almost like such a law being enacted sets a precedent. What else can the government tell a private person/company what they can/cannot do/allow on their property?[/quote] There is a clear distinction, both in law and in practice, between private property used for private purposes and property used for business purposes and that distinction has been recognized for many, many decades. I agree that the rights of the property owner should be protected but no one right exists in a vacuum; they interact with other...sometimes they conflict with one another and when that happens, a fair balance needs to be sought; a balance that does the most good and least harm. I would suggest that the larger issue that should impact whether "parking lot" legislation is or isn't passed into law is what constitutes the best outcome for society at large. We have a large amount of history/data to show that an armed citizenry is a benefit to society; as such, if we (the government) can promote citizens being armed with little or no infringement on the rights of property owners then it's appropriate to make that possible. Other than the cry of "private property rights" (a cry I believe is misguided), I've not read or heard even one argument that has shown me any measurable, negative impact on a business owner simply because an employee or a customer chooses to have a legally owned and transported firearm in their vehicle while it's parked in a parking lot that is open to the public, and not just "open to" but where the public is invited to be.

Every now and then, too infrequently to actually remember how long it's been, I'll get a craving for a Twinkie and buy a package at a convenience store or the grocery. The thought of them, maybe, going away for ever is almost like losing another childhood landmark. I know there is probably a good possibility that someone will buy the recipe and make them again but often when things like that happen, the product is never quite the same.

[quote name='Worriedman' timestamp='1353091391' post='846702'] Have not seen the version that he is going to push, but, I do not believe that it will be substantially different from the House version of last year, permit carriers only, complete coverage of the business/property owner from any liability from actions taken with any legal firearm. Pretty much the across the board law that 18 other States have, but not including the Georgia opt out related to fences. He told me up front that he was not in favor of the fenced lot exclusion this round. In States that already have the law, it has not increased crime in any way, nor has it increased insurance premiums for business owners. Personally, I think some in the Republican Party decided it was better to have the activist who worked to get this passed as partners instead of antagonist. Ramsey is still P.O.'d at anyone who had anything to do with the defeat of Debra Maggart, but, realizes that a concentrated effort against any single politician, (except for Harwell, who is protected by her liberal Democratic constituents) could be vulnerable to a similar attack. Taking this off the table might lead to actually working [u]with[/u] the most vocal entity instead of against it. [/quote]It's certainly good news if this is what can get passed (unless I'm misunderstanding something) but I'll believe it when I see it. Oh...and that fact that Ron the RINO is pissed, for some reason, doesn't bother me in the least.

[quote name='10-Ring' timestamp='1353091003' post='846691']...First being that I often OC, just because you choose not to exercise your right to do so does not mean that you should throw that right away for people that choose to exercise it. Secondly in concealed carry states if you print you can be charged with brandishing and other related charges.[/quote] I don't know for certain as I wasn't here when the initial HCP laws were passed but I suspect that it's possible and maybe even likely that the primary reason TN allows "open carry" is to prevent people being charged with a crime just because they "print" or inadvertently show their firearm. I've suspected for a long time that many who carry openly have taken it beyond what was intended with the HCP laws and that, eventually, we'll see a backlash against any open carry at all. That's assuming Obama doesn't outlaw all firearms of course.

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353090838' post='846689'] I think I must have missed something. [/quote]I suspect it's not the first time.

I mean no disrespect to anyone and certainly not to Dolomite but to be blunt, I believe the discussion was very related to our Second Amendment rights and it's a discussion that is both appropriate to have and should be had although I will admit that maybe that poster and that link was not the the thread to best have the such a discussion. Perhaps more to the point, what I found unsettling was that, as far as I can tell, there was nothing in the link or the thread that violated the rules here and considering some of the links and discussions that have been permitted, it seemed a bit arbitrary and inconsistent with other decisions made here. Life goes on.

If you mean you want to discontinue the HCP process completely or significantly, I would be very much against it as our HCP allows us the benefit of carrying in other states. What I would like to see is improvements in the HCP process and more benefits for those who go through the process while moving toward "Constitutional Carry" for legal Tennessee residents who don't want to go through the HCP process. No HCP required for carry to anyone who can otherwise legally own a firearm or to carry a firearm inside of their vehicle. HCP process - improved in that, as it is now with a TICS denial when purchasing a firearm from an FFL, the burden of proof is on the State to prove you do not meet the requirements needed to obtain an HCP (as of now, if they find anything that "might" preclude you obtaining they deny to issue and it's then up to you to prove you are actually eligible). HCP, once issued, precludes the need for a background every time you purchase a firearm from an FFL (would probably require an annual review of your records by TBI but I think that can be managed since it's almost 100% just a computer check of records anyway). Yes, I think we need a discussion about weapons other than firearms as our current laws don't make a lot of sense to me! I could think of other but I think the above is a good start.

Isn't it a shame that Israel can't conscript American Jews to fight for them...you know...such as the ones who voted to keep Obama in power. I am not really afraid for Israel because I believe they can take care of themselves but I feel afraid and concerned for all who will suffer; especially since they wouldn't have to if the United States did the right thing and stood behind Israel (as opposed to doing everything to encourage Israel's enemies).

I love Twinkies (not that I should) but I'm glad they are going through with liquidation...thank God somebody has enough balls to stand up to idiotic union thugs (sorry for repeating myself there). I feel a little sorry for the line workers who will be out on the street but not overly so since they are the ones who wanted and installed the union and elected their union officials. Karma really is a bitch, isn't it.

[quote name='BrettB' timestamp='1353035001' post='846338'] I am game for a donut and a lie! [/quote]me too!

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353068931' post='846441'] I refuse to support this until the state of Tennessee recognizes the right to bear arms. To say that the state won’t recognize your right but a business must is just a thug government. The government thinks they have the right to outlaw carrying loaded guns in your car for the safety of the public, but a business can’t come to the same conclusion for the safety of their employees? What a load of crap; this bill stinks and doesn’t deserve the support of gun owners, and won’t get the support of citizens. [/quote]First of all, that ain't 'gona' happen in my lifetime and probably not yours either but no worries; unless you own FedEx or Bridgeseone or Nissan your support or lack of it won't mean a thing to the current leadership in this legislature or governor's office

I believe we would be far better off to not even attempt to get any sort of "parking lot bill" out of this legislature because anything we get will likely be so worthless that it's just not worth the effort and may do more harm than good.

What truly matters most with dealing with a charity organization is not really how much their staff or executives get paid; it really has a lot more to do with what kind of revenue those executives bring in, simply by their being part of the group and, most importantly I think, how much of their revenue is actually spend on/gets to the people the organization exists to help. A good rule of thumb, at least for me, is that I don't give to any organization that spends more than 10% of its revenue on administration (salaries, etc.)