RobertNashville

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353520612' post='849173'] The problem when you compromise like that, Robert, is it just places a burden, or another restriction on an established business that should have no reason to be guaranteeing your safety. Compromises usually end up in bad precedence for future lawmaking. That's what has gotten us in the mess we are in. [/quote]I was being a little jovial again....I don't really want or actually suggest such a compromise. On the other hand, I can't say I'd feel sorry for the businesses if, by denying me the opportunity to have the best tool available for my own defense, they had to step in and provide the protection for me. I suppose one of the things that bother me most about the cries of FedEx, Nissan, Bridgestone and their ilk is that they want it both ways...they deny their employees/customers the best tool available for providing for their own protection, especially during their commute, while concurrently refusing to take any responsibility for the safety of their employees/customers. It seems to me to be a rather despicable position for them to take.

You would have to find some aliens with some incredibly low standards. I can believe in aliens but I don't think I can believe in aliens smart enough to build interstellar ships but dumb enough to take the likes of Reid and Pelosi.

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1353457162' post='848959'] Didn't out of control government spending really take off under Reagan as well? [/quote]Revenues increased greatly; spending increased even to a greater degree under a Democrat controlled Congress. I guess Reagan should have just gone around Congress like Obama does not when he can't get his way.

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1353456121' post='848947'] "Obama Phone" program (LifeLine) began under Reagan admin. [url="http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline"]http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline[/url] It started including cell phone service under Dubya's admin. - OS [/quote]My friend, you keep saying that and it is, of course true...but it also misses the point don't you think?

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1353515536' post='849141'] There are several states that have the law and it is not unconstitutional. This struggle of property over individual rights is bogus, but it keeps coming up. As long as it is argued for nothing, it will only be a detractor to a right. No one that I know of wants to trample on another's rights, but it is up to the individual to guarantee his/her own rights. That includes self protection and could easily be on another's property. The property rules could easily be too vague to allow from one to another and never give any satisfaction to anyone if property was the only factor. It may never be solved and our right to self protection will fade and our guns will be taken. Is that what anyone wants? Taking a way of self protection to an employer's property and storing it is reasonable. It doesn't infringe on anyone else's right. There is a right to safe passage from one state to another with firearms. Where is the difference in storing a firearm in a trunk while at work? [/quote]I'd be completely in favor of an employer or the places a person shops chose to deny their employees/customers the right to have a firearm in their vehicle [i][b]if[/b][/i] the State would just require that those stores and employers provide well-trained armed security during the employees/customers transportation to/from their locations and while the employee/customer was at their location - I think that would be a fair compromise! If providing armed security is "too much" of an inconvenience then just have the state hold every employer and business 100% liable for the safety of their employees/customers both while they are on the employers/business's property and their commute to/from...an employee gets killed during a car-jacking on his way to work and his employer doesn't allow him to keep a firearm in his vehicle; it could be an automatic $10M payout to the dead employee's family. I wonder what Nissan or FedEx would think about that proposition???

I purchased my Cannon from the Safe House about three years ago and I went with the mechanical lock...my thinking was that there was slightly less chance for a problem and/or if a problem occurred, it would be easier to find someone to work on it but I really don't know if my reasoning has any merit or not! I also worry about a massive EMP from a North Korean or Chinese Nuke and/or massive solar event and didn't want to have my firearms inaccessible in when our electronic society broke down.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454003' post='848934'] Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. The majority of the country has knowingly and willfully chosen European style socialism. The degradation of individual rights and personal liberty will only continue. While most who are involved in the discussion of secession wish for a peaceful outcome, I don't think anyone really believes it will be nice or easy even if in the extremely unlikely event it were to happen. Creating a new government is by its nature problematic and full of strife. All that being said, what are you willing to acquiesce to avoid bloodshed? How far down the road to slavery are you willing to travel to remain comfortable and safe? Where is your line? That is what this conversation is about for me. When do I stop ignoring the oath I took and begin defending the constitution against the domestic enemies in Washington? At what point am I willing to risk everything for a chance at true freedom? Something none of us in this country has ever actually known.[/quote] I honestly don't know where my line is and I probably won't know until I reach it...but I'm not there yet and I don't believe "we" are there yet either. I suspect most who seem to be wishing for secession (which really means a very painful and bloody revolution as you note), have no real idea just how horrible that would be nor have they ever been in a position where they had the real possibly of dying from a bomb or a missile of a gunshot. In other words, people need to be careful and truly understand what they wish for. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, even if we formed a new country and new government and/or restored this one to the Constitution; we still have the same people...those are the ones in the mirror I think was being referred to. The "Red" stats aren't really all that Red...we have the lazy, the stupid, the ill-informed, the crooks and the thugs and the liberals and the socialist in all strata and in all states; until that changes...until we can change those who can be changed into productive and thoughtful citizens we are doomed, with or without secession. Finally, I think the whole issue of secession is moot anyway because we'll never get that far...unless we can effect real change and pretty quickly; I suspect the current government and our country will fail due to not just a complete collapse of our economy but a world-wide economic collapse meaning we may all be arming up and trying to survive just the chaos of that; never mind "secession".

[quote name='Worriedman' timestamp='1353465820' post='849002']...I refuse to give up this struggle.[/quote] Amen and amen. There is not need to give up the struggle no should we. Clearly, some in the greater firearms community are against this proposed bill...if those who are really care then they should make their objections and reasons for those objections known to their state legislators and then let the people's house decide the matter; one way or another. I believe this law is needed and if it is passed, will be found to be Constitutional. At the very least, I hope that sometime soon the bill won't be stopped from a vote simply because of the political expediency and greed of one (thankfully former) state legislator.

[quote name='leroy' timestamp='1353503866' post='849073'] Thanksgiving is a time to be thankful for family and God's blessing. I always try to be thankful on the other 364 days in the year too. Sometimes i have trouble and whine a bit; but im tryin to quit. All that bein said; ive worked every "holiday" or "family event" there is; except Christmas; and i may have worked one Christmas day (...cant remember....). Most of the time it wuz away from home. My employer payed me for everyone of them. For that i am thankful. I know what it means to be away from home and family on special days. My job required it; and that's what i did. All that is part of bein an adult. As Mike said above, it's another day of the week. Celebrate when you are off. Lots of people will be workin on Thanksgiving. They keep the water, electricity, tv, and internet on. They will move the freight by rail, truck, air, and sea. They keep you safe from monsters both at home and abroad. If ya get sick, they will care for you. The list goes on and on. The point is that in this country, we all need to be thankful. We may not like everything thats goin on; but most everyone of us has more than they need to eat, a place to live, a job to go to (....some or most...), and no one is commin to kick our door down and take what they want. More than that, we are armed. I say: "....Happy Thanksgiving to all. It dont matter when ya celebrate it...!! We are all very blessed!!!....". leroy [/quote]Very well said, thank you!

I don't plan to let anything get by me but I'm always suspicious of articles and posting from sources when the sources aren't provided :-)

[quote name='canadienmike' timestamp='1353437382' post='848801'] Uninformed DMV worker.[/quote] What??? You meant to tell me that a state worker didn't know what he/she was talking about??? That is [u][i][b]SO[/b][/i][/u] difficult for me to believe.

Yes, I bought coverage some time ago...it isn't inexpensive but it's a lot less expensive than replacing my collection (not that I"m admitting to having one you understand) should something catastrophic happen.

[quote name='Commando68' timestamp='1353450147' post='848897'] So the tough gun owning patriots acquiesce and become little emasculated, disarmed, socialist slaves? Paying tribute to kingobama?surrendering those nasty weapons that the state views as obstacles to it's ever expanding power and influence? What about the 10th amendment? So when king o appoints two more SCOTUS and they abolish the 22 amendment. Our dear leader reigns supreme as uncontested dictator? Hey anything goes right? All should just kiss the hand of the slave master and turn in your rifles! Great. [/quote] You're right; it's time to give up on the Constitution and peaceful ways to effect change...it's far better to grab our "assault" rifles (before Obama confiscates them) and fight another civil war in our streets and among our homes while our children duck and cover....yeah...that's the answer!

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353446593' post='848875'] And I thank you for saying your grandmother worked for an asylum. Seriously. People are amazed when you show them that the stories horror movies are made of are truths that went on through the '70s. No one knows a slave. Hardly no one knows someone that was in a Nazi camp anymore. I'd bet that almost everyone in this country knows someone that was either in an asylum or worked for one.[/quote] Although far from the only time I was there, I watched President Kennedy's funeral procession in an open ward in the state (Ohio) run "Orient Mental Institution" because I was with my grandmother while she worked (since school was out because of the assassination and funeral and my mother and father both worked and were not off, I spent the day with my grandmother...those are two memories I will always carry with me.

The fist Thanksgiving was a celebration (November 1621) for the good harvest and, I would suggest, to thank God for his blessings and that is an example that I think is worth following. I don't know if there is a "war" on Thanksgiving but if you listen to any of the "mainstream" media, you'll come to believe that Thanksgiving is nothing but a celebration of white, European imperialism and narcissism.. It's become nothing more than the "starting line" for Christmas (excuse me, "holiday) shopping... I think that's pretty sad.

Why am I suspicious of a "first ever post" by a person extolling that the sky if falling but there is no citations/sources provided???

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353440730' post='848828']You do not have the right to be on private property nor do you have any rights while on that property. remember, the Constitution only guarantees that your rights will not be taken by the government.[/quote] In fairness and in case anyone hasn’t figured it out yet, my last couple of posts have been intentionally facetious to the point of ridiculousness and it was to make a point. You have beaten me over the head about how the Constitution provides no protection to a person when that person is on private property. I have found that carrying a stated position to the most extreme possible outcome is a valid way to examine the validity of the position and this “you don’t have any rights when you are on private property” position, carried to its extreme would mean that a property owner could do anything that property owner wanted to any person who happened to be standing on the private property owner’s property; if the person "has no rights" then the person "has no rights". When looked at in that way, I think the problem with the position becomes clear. I know you aren't going to agree but maybe, someone else will at least think about it. Obviously, at least I hope it’s obvious, I don’t believe that an employer can control the thoughts of an employee or not even allow that employee to take a breath just because that employee is on the employer’s property nor do I believe you think so. I also don't believe that asylums, private or public, were good things...my grandmother worked in one for many years and I'm VERY familiar with them. My point is, that the position that “you have no rights on someone else’s private property” is simply not true.

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353441800' post='848837']...Since the beginning of this country, people with disabilities of all sorts were crammed into insane asylums. They were not even granted the most basic of rights. ADA was the direct result of the stopping of this practice. Was that wrong?[/quote] Well, if the asylums were government owned then what they did was wrong...if they were privately owned and on private property then it's okay because people have no rights on private property (since the Constitution doesn't apply). It follows, then, that the ADA is horribly wrong because it's a [i][b]HUGE[/b][/i] infringement on private property and we all know, private property rights supersede all other.

Yes; I've changed my stance and I've seen the light!!! [i][b]The Constitution does not apply to private property [/b][/i]and property property rights supersede all others including that pesky "life and liberty" [b]B[/b]ovine [b]S[/b]catoloty!!

[quote name='strickj' timestamp='1353440730' post='848828']...[/quote] Isn't that what I just said... [quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353429323' post='848761'][b]You have [color=#ff0000][u][i]NO[/i][/u][/color] rights when you are standing on "private property"...you don't even have the right to be there (even if you were invited to be there) and in fact, you don't even have the right to think or draw breath unless the property owner says it's okay. Property rights supersede [color=#ff0000][i]all others[/i][/color]. Now, that language isn't in the Constitution but I guess that doesn't matter.[/b][/quote] Even when I agree with you, you still want to disagree...sigh.

[quote name='Major Kong' timestamp='1353434894' post='848788'] I'm sorry Robert, I'm not following you. The guy says in the same paragraph that he's sold more assault weapons (yes, I know...) than hunting rifles recently. It was a different manager at a different store who said he didn't sell them. I didn't comment on him because I agree that his stance is idiotic. [/quote]No worries...I was just trying to make a joke; apparently it wasn't a very good one.

[quote name='Major Kong' timestamp='1353433691' post='848777'] A quick Google search validated that you can't hunt with a semi automatic rifle in Pennsylvania, which is where this story originated. [/quote]So...I guess it follows, then, that if your state law doesn't allow you to hunt with a semi-automatic rifle you shouldn't be allowed to own one either. I wonder if they have similar restrictions against semi-auto shotguns???

[quote name='wjh2657' timestamp='1353431574' post='848771']...Biggest problem. You don't petition for succession. You fire on Fort Campbell and declare independence from U.S. Entire U.S. military might legally invades Tennessee. Still sound like a good deal? Fact is, like it or not, states are no longer capable of existing as separate entities. [/quote]To be blunt (which is a problem for me); I find it a bit appalling that there are people who actually do think secession is either a good idea or even possible. I'm also a bit sad that such talk is even allowed to go on here. But to answer the above question; no, it doesn't sound like a good idea but as is usually the case, people tend to want to deal with the "romance" of an issue and not the reality of it...it sounds very manly/tough/patriotic/freedom-loving/independent to talk about secession (which is really just a substitute for revolution) but dealing with the harsh realities of what would happen isn't so romantic.

[quote name='GKar' timestamp='1353421638' post='848717']...If, however, you are saying that the employee has no rights WHILE ON an employer's property...[/quote] Don't you know? Didn't anybody tell you? Isn't it obvious? You have [i][b]NO[/b][/i] rights when you are standing on "private property"...you don't even have the right to be there (even if you were invited to be there) and in fact, you don't even have the right to think or draw breath unless the property owner says it's okay. Property rights supersede all others. Now, that language isn't in the Constitution but I guess that doesn't matter.

[quote name='S&WForty' timestamp='1353358426' post='848337'] That sure is a short sighted statement. Not everyone can hop from job to job especially in this economy.[/quote] Well you know; telling others what they should do is not too difficult..