RobertNashville

Just trying to point out the reality of what people would be facing...I'm not even suggesting that the "option" being discussed shouldn't be done...if it really becomes necessary then it's necessary regardless of outcome (and who knows, maybe I'm completely wrong about how things would work out). ;)

Surely that doesn't surprise you does it???  ;)

It I might add...when I was speaking about debt, jobs, etc. I was doing so within the overall framework of participating in "protests"; not just this one issue or just the issue of "resisting" tyranny (in the form of gun confiscation).   The point I was trying to make is that there are lots of issues and lots of protests, gatherings, etc that I would love to participate in (there is one this coming week at the legislature on a Tuesday at noon) that is difficult if not impossible to attend because...well...because I work for a living and my employer expected me to be here! I hope that clears up where I was coming from.

We don't have George Washington nor an army for GW to lead; at least as far as I can tell...for every 1,000 firearm owners who will talk a good game online I'd wager you'd be lucky to get one to "join up". We also won't be facing Redcoats who only know one way to fight (the Continental Army didn't start to have much success until they stopped trying to fight the way the Brits did)...any such Revolution today would be facing a superior force with superior weapons and likely superior tactics as well...do you really think there would be a good outcome for the "Patriots"?

Well, my friend...when you are ready to lock and load and head to CT to fight with them let me know...maybe I'll drive. ;)

The true originators (the legislators) will likely come out looking like the rational folks.   The police trying to enforce the law who may get shot/killed if people resist with violence will likely be looked on as heroes.   The gun owners who resisted...well, they will likely be dead and their arms confiscated (and the lives of their families ruined if they are still alive)...those of us of the same mindset as them (like us) may consider them the heroes but most people and the press will paint them as violent radicals in the vein of Timothy McVeigh who got exactly what they deserved - exactly the kind of people who the law was passed to protect "reasonable" people from. I'm not saying don't resist but I think everyone needs to be realistic about the likely outcome.

For me, the fact that someone could chose to do that doesn't mean it a valid option.   Let's not forget that the firearm owners in CT who are now facing this issue are facing this issue because they and the other citizens of CT voted for the legislators who passed this law and I would suggest that this process stretches back decades and decades of people choosing, either actively or passively, to allow their rights to be taken away.   If that is an accurate assessment then I have a hard time feeling sorry for them at this point and I'm not at all sure that engaging in a violent confrontation (whether on the offensive or defensive) is justified. And...if it isn't justified I don't consider it a valid option...a possible option but not a valid one.   If things really come to that I think it will turn out badly, not just for those firearm owners who resist with violence gut perhaps for all of us. I don't remember if I've said it here or not (as I've been discussing this on other sites as well) but once they show up on your doorstep to collect your "illegal" weapons you've pretty much already lost no matter what you do at that point...these CT folks should have been more awake and concerned years or decades ago. Of course, that's just my $0.02  

I think you misunderstand; at least you misunderstand me.   I don't think anyone and I know I'm not saying that our desire for and action regarding constitutional authority should be based on our personal economic situation.  There is, however, an economic reality here and that's all I'm trying to point out.   Before you or I or anyone decides to pledge our lives, our fortunes or our sacred honor on a course of action we (and anyone who depends on us financially such as our spouses and children) had better count that economic cost and be truly sure we are doing the right thing.. 

As a matter of philosophy I completely agree with you...as a practical matter; these programs are not sulfa-sustaining and pay out more in benefits than the recipients pay in - the only reason we still get the benefits of these programs is because the government is unwilling to admit it they are broke.   The real tragedy of SS is not how much we get out of it or even how much we paid in but the amount of money it robs us of. A couple of years ago and went back and figured out how much money I have paid into SS since I started working at around 14 and had I been able to invest that money in even an investment of even just average return I'd have in excess of $2M in my own retirement account that I actually own...that I can actually pass on to my family when I'm gone...add in the employer's share (which is really our money as well) and the multiplication effect is enough to make you go insane once you realize how much the government has taken from us.

Certainly, being without debt does offer some freedom (assuming one has a 3-6 month emergency fund to live on). But, I'd still (and I think most people would) be hesitant to risk a good job unless I was doing so to go to a better one (I'm actually facing that decision as I write this) because the new job would require me to rent a home in Savannah (still maintaining my residence here).   I think in my entire life since I was 14 I've been employed somewhere other than a total of about 12 weeks (not all at one time) and 75% of that was because I was in the middle of moving/relocating.  Being without a job is a scary prospect whether one has debt or not. ;)

Are politicians in Congress and the White House and bureaucrats at most levels of government overpaid?   Probably.  However, whether they are or aren't is really just a value judgment and no something easily quantified and comparing them to "other" salaries like teachers or military members really only muddies the water.   Whether they are or aren't they really aren't the problem...the real problem is that the country is moving closer and closer to socialism and a welfare state.  The sad thing is that such a system cannot maintain itself; even Russia and China has figured that out yet we (and most of Europe) keep rushing headlong into the abyss.   I wish I though we could change things but I don't think we will...what I do think is that we'll have either a total or partial economic collapse and a lot of what is "wrong" with this country now is going to get washed out as those who currently don't work and have no clue how to take care of themselves or do real work will die off (one way or another).   I really hope I'm wrong, though.

Obamacare is the law of the land...our last chance to eliminate it (and it was a small chance) evaporated with Obummer's reelection and with the cave-in of the Republican establishment. By the time enough legislators get elected that might have the balls to actually take on the issue of Obamacare it will be so established that, like Medicare, Medicaid, SS and all the other entitlements NO ONE WILL TOUCH IT.   The best we can hope for at this point is that there are changes made that will make it more easy to swallow.   Of course, in my opinion, our economy is going to collapse before that happens anyway which will make Obamacare and all the other mammoth entitlement programs moot as they sink under their own weight of debt and worthless money.   This "change" (as have been all the others) is all about trying to get Democrats elected/reelected.

I really don't understand the above or how it relates to what I said in the post you are quoting.   How is requiring a BC check "crossing the line"..what line?  In TN if you are crossing state lines you have to go through an FFL; what's the big deal???

I think TGO is safer than Facebook.   People who are firearm enthusiasts tend to be pretty decent people.   People who spend significant time here (on TGO) tend to be "real" firearm enthusiasts   TGO is administered by good people (and the rif-raff tend to get weeded out).   People who have spent significant time here and become benefactors (necessary to be able to sell here) make it even more likely that they are actually firearm enthusiasts. They also will likely accumulate an IT Trader "rating" of either being good people to deal with or not good people to deal with.   No one is saying that dealing with someone from TGO is a guarantee of anything but it's a hell of a lot more to go on than someplace like Facebook where someone could have joined 10 minutes before posting their "gun" for sale and with no mechanism to indicate if they might be a good person to deal with.

There is really nothing wrong with Facebook...most of what could be said that's "bad" about social media today could have been said (and likely was) about almost any advancement in technology over the last 150 years. Most of what people complain about with FB are problems of their own making by not being careful about what they post there.   There is a book I highly recommend people read, if you want an idea about technology and where it's taking us. It's been out in HC for a while but the papterback just came out.The New Digital Age: Transforming Nations, Businesses, and Our Lives. It's quite an eye opener.

I'm a bit surprised that anyone would use Facebook to sell or buy a firearm...equally surprised that a company like Facebook wouldn't just delete such posts automatically.  :shrug: 

On what basis do people think that, at this point, voting is going to change anything in CT?   Does anyone have numbers of how may people in CT are actually opposed to this infringement vs how many people want it?

I don't disagree that debt is a huge problem and is, slavery...at the same time; I don't think you can specifically blame debt for people not wanting to risk their jobs.  Few people are wiling to risk their jobs whether they have debt or not because even with zero debt you still need an income (people still have expenses and need to save for retirement, emergencies, etc.). I would suggest that it has more to do with the fact that those who actually care about these issues DO have a job and aren't free to just hop on a bus go "go protest" like so many on the left do.

I noticed that too...I didn't read where anybody had said to start shooting it out.

"Threatening to shoot cops is about the dumbest freaking thing I can think of for them to do."   Yeah...maybe it is...actually I'd say carrying through with the threats may be dumber yet.  However, is giving up your "illegal assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" (that may represent tens of thousands of $$$ of investment to the person to bought and paid for them) not pretty dumb too???   Waiting to get the legislature changed with people who actually believe in the constitution is a great long term strategy (assuming there are enough voters in CT as well as enough such candidates to get the job done) but that won't do a thing to stop the confiscation of millions and millions of dollars worth of privately owned weapons nor stop people from being tried and convicted of a felony; lose their rights vote and to own any weapons in the future and may result in jail time and even if not jail time would likely ruin their lives and the lives of their families as well.   I would leave the state permanently before I'd hand over my weapons but that would be my way of   The problem is, when the heavy hand of the state comes to get you firearms THERE IS NO "GOOD" RESPONSE...they are all bad...anything you do is likely to ruin your life or at least change it forever. By the time the state is on your doorstep to take your "illegal" weapons it's likely too late for a good outcome no matter what you do or don't do.

Folks this has nothing to do with "the law" and everything to do with the good communist "school policy" of "zero tolerance"...that's why even eating a cookie into the vague shape of a pistol is enough to get suspended....that is what our schools, which we all pay for, have come to today.

You may be right or I may be; neither of us can know since we weren't there and we didn't vote.

Sit around and lose my rights?   Okay...so if you think I'm just sitting around how about helping me out and tell me what 10 things I can do right now to keep from losing my rights?   Maybe there are some actions I can take that I'm not already taking.  

I'm trying to think if there is much left to be said about this unless or until the Connecticut authorities actually do something. This could turn into something extremely serious or CT may just tuck tail and "enforce" this law only if they actually arrest someone for possessing an "illegal" weapon when it's in the person's possession and they get stopped/encounter LE for some other reason.   Time will tell.

I'm just suggesting that people understand the likely consequences of their actions because it probably won't end well for those who try to resist. In any case, what I wold do personally is a decision I alone will make and likely won't make until they are on my doorstep...if you want to assume that means I'm putting on my "shackles" you can do so. Let's not forget that the this situation in CT or that we see brewing in other parts of the country wasn't created by some King an ocean away over which the people had no say in what happened like we did in the 18th century...WE the people are 100% responsible for where we are now as a country...if they come for our guns it will be because the majority of the people voted for it (or at least don't have a problem with it)...this isn't 1776 no matter how much some try to equate the two periods in history.