LagerHead

Amen. It's a shame to go out that way. RIP.

Does the term "Too Much Information" mean anything to either of you.

Had a good time at the range at Guns & Leather today with my wife, kid, and friend and his wife. The downside was that I walked out of the house and left my wife's gun on the bed. The upside is that means we have to go back to the range soon. Have to zero my friend's AR and the wife needs to shoot her 9mm. Oh well, I guess I'll sacrifice for another range trip.

Volphin, I gotta say, I like the way you think. The idea may have merit if you can almost fill up a restaurant.

I think the AG's quote pretty much sums it up. If you are carrying a weapon in a manner that makes it easily accessible for use, you carrying with an intent to go armed. So to be safe, if you don't have a permit and you are carrying your gun, keep it in a gun box, or unloaded in a range bag, or in your trunk if you are in your car. If you have a HCP, carry with the intent to go armed.

A TN HCP gives you the right to carry your handgun (i.e. have it in your possession) ready to use in self defense. That means that while in your car, the handgun is in your possession, and therefore MAY have a round in the chamber. Otherwise it would be called a RCP (Rock Carry Permit). According to handgunlaw.us it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in any vehicle WITHOUT a permit. http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf

Ummmm, he said a baaaaad wooooooord!

Good to see everyone there. From what I could tell most of the 20-30 people in the audience were on our side, as evidenced by the laughter at some of the ridiculous comments made by some of the council members. As expected, and already pointed out by Trek, there was no substance to the arguments in favor of the ban. There were a lot of "what if's" and "what about the children?s" but nothing that could be called an argument. Beauford Thune, Representative West, and John Harris, on the other hand, presented a lot of the fact with which we are already familiar, and a few points that were new to me, at least. By my count, of those council members present, there were 5 against the ban, 4 for the ban, and one that only asked one vague question so I couldn't make a determination. When you add that the Police Chief, head of Metro Parks, and the city attorney's office are all pro ban, I'd say it's likely that this fight will be lost on purely ideological grounds. There was certainly no substance to their side, and councilman Eric Crafton made that pretty obvious. He pretty much tore apart everything they said. Councilmen Gotto, Claiborne, and Duvall also gave them hell. They asked questions that were answered with the equivalent of Bill Clinton's infamous "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is" and outright refused to answer others. My favorite line of the night, in response to Mr. Crafton's question, "Would you be safer walking in a park at night with your daughter if you had a gun?" was Mr. Thune's response: "Hell yes I would be safer if I had a gun!" Regardless of the outcome of this bill, I am proud of the fight that these guys put up, and I'm glad I was there to see it. I would encourage everyone to go to their local meetings and make their voice heard, or at least enjoy the show, as we did last night.

And attitude reflects leadership. In organizations where it is made clear up front that this type of behavior is not tolerated, incidents like this are far fewer. That being said, my personal experience with THP has been positive. Metro Nashville on the other hand.... And all of my infractions are minor, traffic related ones.

I will be attending the class above. It sounds like pretty good bang for the buck. And I will be continuing with more advanced classes geared toward HCP holders, assuming I am satisfied with the first one.

I'll be there. I am wearing khaki cargo pants and an ugly green polo with black horizontal stripes to accentuate my beautiful beer belly. See you there.

Absolutely correct. That is why we cannot afford to stop sending e-mails and calling and letting them know they are losing our business. And if you send it, stick by it.

Just sent you and the other council members that list their e-mail a letter. Good luck.

The form protects both parties involved, so I don't see why anyone should be offended. The truth is, most people on here don't really "know" each other. There are exceptions, of course, but there's nothing wrong with protecting yourself.

How do you think this would have gone down if the teenager had drawn a gun on the officer? If he survived the ensuing shooting, he would have then spent several years in prison. This is no less than criminal assault by an officer and he needs to spend time behind bars. I think his LDS got the best of him that day.

Just make sure you allow a little extra time. You have to stand by while the TSA person sends your bag through the X-ray until they give you the thumbs up to proceed to your gate. Other than that, it's nothing. They will ask you to open up your case, might ask if you if it's unloaded, or they might not, but I believe they're supposed to.

One word for you, David - re-dun-dan-cy!

Here is a list of all the council members, the mayor, and the vice mayor, in case you prefer e-mail over the form. mayor@nashville.gov diane.neighbors@nashville.gov tim.garrett@nashville.gov megan.barry@nashville.gov charlie.tygard@nashville.gov ronnie.steine@nashville.gov jerry.maynard@nashville.gov lonnell.matthews@nashville.gov frank.harrison@nashville.gov whuntnash@aol.com michael.craddock@nashville.gov pam.murray@nashville.gov mike.jameson@nashville.gov erik.cole@nashville.gov karen.bennett@nashville.gov jim.forkum@nashville.gov rip.ryman@nashville.gov darren.jernigan@nashville.gov jim.gotto@nashville.gov carl.burch@nashville.gov bruce.stanley@nashville.gov phil.claiborne@nashville.gov anna.page@nashville.gov sandra.moore@nashville.gov kristine.lalonde@nashville.gov erica.gilmore@nashville.gov buddy.baker@nashville.gov edith.langster@nashville.gov eric.crafton@nashville.gov emily.evans@nashville.gov jason.holleman@nashville.gov sean.mcguire@nashville.gov greg.adkins@nashville.gov randy.foster@nashville.gov duane.dominy@nashville.gov vivian.wilhoite@nashville.gov jim.hodge@nashville.gov parker.toler@nashville.gov sam.coleman@nashville.gov robert.duvall@nashville.gov carter.todd@nashville.gov bo.mitchell@nashville.gov

That's funny. You would think I would have noticed those cameras filming me all the time, but I never saw one of them.

1. Reliability 2. Reliability 3. Reliability After that.... 4. Comfort 5. Carriability (yea, I just made that word up) 6. Looks

Got another response. Though this one sounds like her mind's already made up. Mr. E, Thank you for taking the time to write. I believe this issue requires thorough publc debate and discussion. Sincerely, Marilyn Roddy Knoxville City Councilmember At Large

If nothing else it would remove that excuse from their arsenal.

I actually received a response from the mayor (or one of his staff). Anyway, here is the e-mail and response in its entirety. Read if you're really bored. ==================================================== Dir Sir or Madam: I am writing because it is my understanding that you plan to hold a hearing to review the possibility of opting out of the newly enacted law allowing legal Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) holders to carry their firearms in the state's parks. I hope you will consider the effect this will have on HCP holders in this state. First, with some local governments letting the law stand and others opting out, it creates a confusing patchwork within the state that may leave many otherwise law-abiding HCP holders unintentionally and unknowingly breaking the law. Second, in the case where they are aware, it will decrease tourism in your area. I am a member of the NRA and active in supporting gun owners' rights, locally and nationally. I am a member of several online forums that discuss important issues, including gun-specific ones. I can tell you that there is a general outcry agreement among gun owners and that they are willing to speak with their wallets when considering travel and vacation destinations both in and out of state. In addition, denying legal and law-abiding HCP holders the right to carry in your local parks will not have any effect on those who choose to disregard the law and carry whenever and wherever they please. According to Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms by James Wright and Peter Rossi (Aldine, 1986) 40% of criminals reported they would not attack someone they believe might be armed. And that was at a time when gun ownership in the United States was relatively low compared to today. I would like to point out a few statistics regarding gun owners and crime. This is taken from Gun Facts by Guy Smith. I would highly recommend reading the pamphlet in its entirety. The following is in response to the myth that concealed carry laws increase crime: Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright. Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Floridas right-to-carry law started in 1988.1 Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).2 Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second.3 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.4 Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws5: Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.6 Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995,7 the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.8 Type of Crime % Higher in Restrictive States Robbery 105% Murder 86% Assault 82% Violent Crime 81% Auto theft 60% Rape 25% 1 Florida Department of Justice, 1998 2 Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Cramer C and Kopel D. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994 3 Some criminologist believe measuring first year change is shortsighted as it takes more than a year for permits to be issued, reach critical quantities, and for the criminally minded to recognize the new situation and avoid violent confrontations. 4 Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001. 5 Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, Lott, John R., and Mustard, David B. J. of Legal Studies, vol.26, n.1, pp.1-68 (Jan. 1997): This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S., from 1977 through 1992. During this time ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the US would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults and saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses. 6 FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 2004 - excludes Hawaii and Rhode Island - small populations and geographic isolation create other determinants to violent crime. 7 Federal legislation created a nation gun-free schools policy, effective in 1996. Some criminologists maintain this created a new dynamic, encouraging mass murder on campus. Thus after 1995 it is increasing difficult to make comparisons based on the effects of CCWs and mass shootings. 8 Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, John Lott and William Landes, Law School of the University of Chicago, Law & Economics Working Paper No. 73 The fact is, by denying law-abiding citizens their 2nd Amendment right in your parks, you are not preventing crime. If anything you are inviting it. Please vote in favor of the 2nd Amendment and the 200,000+ legal HCP holders in this state, as well as those who plan on visiting this state. I would like to thank you for your time in reading this lengthy e-mail and your consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Robert Member NRA, www.tngunowners.com, Patriot Guard Riders On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Mayor <Mayor@cityofknoxville.org> wrote: Mr. E., Thanks for your email. A council member has placed an item on the forthcoming July 28th City Council agenda that "opts out" of the provisions of the new state law allowing permit holders to carry guns in local parks. While this is a city council decision and vote, I do not support any restriction on our second amendment rights that is not absolutely necessary. Thus I do not personally favor a blanket "opt out" that restricts those with permits from carrying guns in all parks and greenways. It doesn't make sense to have a situation such that a person with a permit may legally carry while walking down Market Street only to become out of compliance with the law when he or she enters Krutch Park. However, I understand the concern about the idea of folks with concealed weapons in attendance at Little League baseball games. >>> Robert 07/27/2009 3:57 PM >>> Dear Mr. Haslam, Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my e-mail. While you and I disagree about the "Little League" issue, I can certainly respect your point of view. Obviously you have taken the time to educate yourself on this issue and are making a decision based on facts instead of fear, ignorance, and paranoia. I hope the rest of the city council comes tomorrow night as well informed. Sincerely, Robert Member NRA, Tennessee Gun Owners, Patriot Guard Riders

Well there ya go. Just one more reason to like Guns & Leather.

E-mail sent with stats. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but I've been wrong before. Just once, though.