Mark@Sea

Facts are neither liberal nor conservative. They may support ones' beliefs, or contradict them. Not sure what post Ralph is quoting, but we've established that opinion shows are opinionated. We can, if necessary, demonstrate that other than Fox, the mainstream media are either selectively blind or are actively covering for the current administration. Great. Lets' get back to the healthcare debate, shall we? In our last episode, Ralph was attempting to use a Michael Moore "mocumentary" as a credible source for the quality of socialist healthcare. Michael Moores' films have been extensively debunked by many sources; claiming his films are credible is a testament to the ability of the human mind to ignore contradictory facts. Okay, in response I'll post a link to a Times article demonstrating the greater efficiency of a government-controlled healthcare system when it comes to handling patient complaints; “The mother of a 13-year-old girl who became partly paralysed after being given a cervical cancer vaccination says social workers have told her the child may be removed if she (the mother) continues to link her condition with the vaccination.†Question a doctor and lose your child - Times Online Maybe not such a great endorsement for government healthcare, if you're approaching from the 'quality of care' angle, but certainly a testimony to the ability of a bureacracy to cover its' ass. Again, why is government-controlled healthcare such a great idea? And Ralph, to answer one of your off-topic questions, welfare demonstrably pays enough to allow a woman who has never worked a day in her life to afford a Cadillac escalade in the driveway and a 72 inch flatscreen TV in the living room. To answer another one of your questions, my health insurance or lack of same has no bearing on the debate, and is a transparent attempt to switch the debate to a personal attack. On that matter, piss off.

CK1, first, if you have a link, reference or source for your position on Fox News, please post it. Note, said reference should be credible. Second, given the Rasmussen poll results below, would you care to re-examine your statement Third, your I will kindly assume you've been in a coma or some dark corner of the earth where no cable TV, internet or newspapers were available rather than draw from that remark the conclusion it so richly deserves. Finally, I'm interested in how you get from point A (people dislike socialism) to point B (people are racist). As your math teacher used to say, please show your work.

Ralph, if you're using a Michael Moore film as a reference, you may want to reconsider. Seriously. I'd rather be hated than ridiculed. Dude, really, tell me that was tongue in cheek. My solution to unwed mothers? Well, its' pretty complicated... a government program turned an admittedly sad but small problem into a huge expensive problem. What could we possibly do about this? Its' a mystery to me. As long as women have a choice between paid unwed motherhood, and unpaid marriage or work, I suspect the problem will continue to expand. Force the deadbeats to join the military? Ralph, contrary to whatever thoughts you hold dear about the US military, they are proud professionals, every one a volunteer, many with better skills and education than, say, your average musician. Why would you force them to accept and work with those hypothetical losers? Do you really dislike them that much? On the other hand, why should a man be forced to provide child support when dear old mom doesn't want him there to start with? She was just looking for a sperm donor for her investment fund, you might say... Once she gets a successful deposit, the 'deadbeat' has to leave. Otherwise, she doesn't get that government green. Why blame that entirely on the male? Heck, why blame it on the male at all? Best health care in the world in terms of actually providing care. If all you want is access, try Canada, try Great Britain - they have 'access' out the wazoo, for all the good it does them. Call your local cancer clinic, for example, and ask them how many foreign patients they have at the moment. As for your request for examples of healthcare proposals worsening the public debt, I would ask you to refer to the Congressional Budget Office. Really, if you have to have me provide a reference for acknowledged facts (like, say, gravity) then you aren't really interested in honest debate as such - and to be frank, I don't like you enough for banter.

Ralph, are you missing the point on purpose, or are you a democrat? (As an aside, your jabs at Fox News are particularly hilarious today, when it turns out the other networks and such liberal giants as the NYT mentioned the Van Jones controversy not once until after his resignation - and even now those who get their news solely from those sources are liable to be a bit puzzled about the affair. Liberals hate Fox because unfiltered, un-massaged facts disrupt their worldview). Forcing 'fathers' to "pay into the system" just makes a bad idea slightly more financially palatable. You still have the root problem - unwed women bearing children for the sole purpose of jumping on the government gravy train. Young children being raised, if you can call it that, in single-parent homes because if the 'father' is part of the household then the payola stops. Only now, there would be the added bonus of loss of privacy and an expanded-once-again bureacracy in order to track the sperm donors and force them to contribute financially to a system which denies them any other attribute of fatherhood. Myriad government social programs with (perhaps not so) unintended consequences. All of which turned small problems into disasters. Now letting the gov't 'fix' the best healthcare in the world is a good idea? Not to mention the financial hole these social programs have dug. Every "healthcare reform" proposal I've yet seen would put turbochargers on the steam shovels. "It has never worked before, so lets do it again harder" isn't a recipe for sucess. It is a diagnosis of insanity. Obama as the "reverend" Jones, and the democrat party as the ushers passing the kool-aid... If you are so enthralled with socialist healthcare, there are many examples of it in the world. Try Cuba. You'll probably die of something very treatable, but at least you can enjoy the cigars and senoritas before you go. I just want you to stop trying to drag me, my country and culture with you in this suicidal plunge.

Here's a thought; How about we stop financially rewarding women for being unwed mothers? It has been noted that if you pay for something, you tend to get more of it. Until the gov't, in its' infinite wisdom, decided to pay young girls for having children out of wedlock (and continuing said payments for only as long as the mother remained unwed, and the 'father' refrained from joining the household), unwed mothers were a) frowned upon by society and rare. When the system changed their status from pariah to paycheck, the practice of having children out (way, way out) of wedlock bloomed. Nowadays hearing of very, very young girls having children in order to get that government bounty is rather common. Fancy that...

Hear me Now?

Yep. In my grade-school days, I thought FDR was a great president. It took a lot of years of reading, discovering how many small details fit into the picture, before I became aware that FDR went a long way toward making the Constitution irrelevant, stripping the restraints it held on federal government. My characterization of him today would be "less than kind", to put it mildly.

I've spent 27 years at sea, both active and retired, for the USN. I average 10 months of the year shipboard - home is just a place I get to visit occasionally.

Heck, first start in the right direction - people on the dole don't get a vote. That might start reversing the trend of voting ever expanded and larger 'entitlements' Why the heck are they 'entitled' to what they never earned in the first place, anyway? What could possibly entitle me to the fruit of your labors, friend?

How to fix programs already in place? Social Security. Now given out to many, many people who didn't contribute a dime. For decades, 'contributions' to OASDI in excess of outlays were 'returned' to the general budget - and spent on pork-barrel projects by vote-buying congressrats. How about the income tax? Originally it was voluntary, and promised to effect only the top 1% or so - the ultra rich. Where are we now? Millionaire congressrats don't apparently, pay their share - while the middle class are paying in some cases 30-40% or more of their income to the government. Even worse in states that levy income tax, in addition to high sales and property taxes. Maybe those aren't great examples... lets' take a look at welfare, originally intended as temporary aid. Now we have life-long welfare recipients, who have never held a job... cradle to grave dependent on the government robbing Peter to pay them. Let us not forget the role that welfare played in destroying the traditional family. It pays more to be a single mother - and the "baby daddies" congregate on the streetcorners, unwanted at their childrens' homes - can't get in the way of that government gravy, you know. How about section 8 housing? A wonderful program wherein crime is exported from government housing projects and urban ghettos to the suburbs. Oh, there are many, many examples. Now how many of these programs pass constitutional muster? The way to 'fix' these programs is to halt them, or at the very least, drastically cut back on eligibility, with an eye toward eventually phasing them out completely. Stop treating the constitution as a 'living document' that need not be amended - just find a sympathetic judge who will 'interpret' it to say whatever he wants it to say. Stop allowing every branch of the government to do any darn thing it likes, and hold them to their oaths. That may sound unfriendly, un-christian, un-progressive - but I'm tired of living under a government that for practical purposes has no limit on its' powers.

I have yet to meet a well-run government program. Healthcare reform in this country isn't needed - we have the best healthcare in the world. Misleading statistics on, for example, infant mortality, seem to show the US in a less favorable position - but when you discover that many countries don't count premature births unless they reach a certain weight, while the US does... Well, kind of puts a different slant on things, doesn't it? Insurance reform - certainly needed, primarily because of government intervention in the first place. Why not tell the government to butt out, and let a free market provide incentives for insurance companies to meet their customers' needs? Single-payer (IE government provided and controlled) healthcare leads to poor standards of care, insufficient resources to meet demands, and inevitably, rationing. No, thank you!

Why, you ignorant, racist nazi, you!

Seems to be taking the precautionary principle to extremes. And how long does it take to fire 4 or 5 rounds into a water barrel or what-have-you?

What type of gun?

01 Volusia.

This game is suitable for ages four and up

Tung oil Wally world, home depot, lowes all carry it. Rub it in by hand. You'll like it.

Do we need another dancing grenade? Have accusations of racism been flung, like monkey poo in a really strange bar fight? Has someone once again gone on a tangent where no man has gone before? Tune in next week, same batty time, same batty channel! The sad thing is that I don't even need to read his posts anymore.

Ralph at his finest....

Ralph is our in-house non-electric pop-up target. He posts some lowfact content from Huffpo, Dkos, or similiar. It gets shot full of holes. He pops up on another thread. Kind of like whack-a-mole without the sound effects. Fun for a little while, but... I tuned him out after his blanket assertion that TGO users are ignorant racists. Happy to see your knowledgeable contributions to the debate, TNTNixon.

Left lies to promote agenda... I'll pretend to be shocked if you want, but come on, it's par for the course.

There are none so blind as those who will not see. Ralph doesn't respond to reason, fact, or ridicule. He is so blinded by ideology that "anything" the left proposes is dandy, and any rebuttal is not just wrong, but proof of the opponents lack of morals, intelligence, and table manners. I really don't know of a cure for his problem.

Eternal Father, strong to save, Whose arm hath bound the restless wave, Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep Its own appointed limits keep; Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee, For those in peril on the sea!

Sorry to hear about your Grandfather, Geek...

During proceedings involved in my divorce, lo these many years ago, I sat in a courtroom while my first wife (lucy-fer satan, I think her maiden name was) asked for a protective order. I was not allowed to say a single word the entire time. Well, that isn't quite true. I really wanted to tell the judge that the county prosecutor wanted a word with him concerning my lovely soon-to-be ex (boy, I really could pick 'em back then), but the only words I managed to utter were "Your Honor..." when the judge told me to sit down, shut up, or go to jail. So I ended up spending 30 days on a friends' couch, and lost everything I owned (she even took the curtain rods). Months later, when all the facts came out before a different judge, she was ordered to return everything - but she left the state and I lacked the funds to pursue the matter. Shoot, by that time I often lacked the funds to pursue lunch. I hope to find it in my heart to forgive that judge one day. Today ain't lookin' too good, though....