wileecoyote

Update as of late Thursday night: 46 responses thus far which indicate the following: [sNIP] Sat 7/9 in Lebanon seems like the best option because it has the most responses and the most guests. Cookeville is a close second but then we would probably lose a lot of the Nashville people, whereas many of the Nashville and Cookeville respondents indicated that they would be willing to come to Lebanon. This just makes sense with Lebanon being located in the middle of the 3 options, and not too far from the popular alternate locations such as Murfreesboro. I have found a property in the Lebanon area that may be willing to host the picnic. There is ample parking, paved and grassy areas, and a safe place to shoot, plus it is carry friendly. I will check with the owner this weekend to confirm. The survey will remain open until Sunday night 6/12 so vote now if you haven't already chimed in. All of the comments have been very positive and we have a lot of good ideas for free giveaways, prizes, and some things for kids too. Hopefully we can pull this off and have a great time. [survey is now closed]

Ok gang. Survey responses are really rolling in now. A preview of the latest results as of Wed night: 39 responses thus far Sat 7/9 is in the lead, followed closely by Sat 6/25 Cookeville has a slight lead, Nashville and Lebanon tied for a close second, with 9 people suggesting alternate locations all over the map 10-2 and 12-4 are both tied for the best time these 39 respondents would bring a total of 88 adults and 21 kids 38 respondents willing to bring at least one food or drink item gun club and private property are preffered by far over all other locations 38 in favor of the sale/trade/show-tell area even mix of GOC and TGO members So it seems that we are nearly certain to get at least 50 positive responses by the survey deadline of Sunday night June 12, and not one negative comment was raised, so it looks very good for the picnic to happen. I am working up some ideas to make it more fun, including a grab bag where people can bring any small firearm accessory or used item worth between $10-$20, and wrap it up similar to a gift. All the items are then numbered and placed on a big table, and each person that put in a gift will receive a numbered ticket. When their number is called at random they get to go up and take a gift from the table without opening it. Could be anything such as spare ammo, holster, replacement grips, targets, eye/ear protection, ammo cans, whatever. Just something small to make it fun, and nobody is obligated to participate, since only those who bring a gift will get a ticket to take a gift in return. I also have some dealers and manufacturers that may be willing to donate some free prizes which we can giveaway for simple games. And we might be able to hold the picnic at a facility with a range, so people could shoot if they please. If you haven't already taken the survey yet then please do so now, and if you have taken it then feel free to chime in here with other ideas. [survey is now closed]

We have 21 survey responses to-date representing nearly 80 picnic guests, and Saturday July 3 is the most popular date by far. Considering that most parks are already fully booked for the holiday weekend, and a fair number of parks do not allow firearms and/or concealed carry, it is very likely that we will need to hold the picnic at another venue. The most popular choices have been a gun club or private property, which I will look into once the survey closes and we have established the best geographic area. On one hand it would be great to have it at a gun club so people could shoot in addition to the usual picnic activities, however the gun clubs might not allow a picnic to be held on their premises, and it could be a problem to take enough food, drinks, etc. to accommodate the normal gun club traffic in addition to our forum members. And a lot of gun clubs have policies against guns being loaded or handled anywhere off the range line, so it could be trickier for people to carry or conduct private sales or show and tell. And of course many gun clubs will charge admission or range fees to shoot, and the ranges are likley to be packed on the holiday weekend. So it may be best for us to find a private property or simple range which will allow the picnic in addition to concealed carry and a safe area for sales, trades, etc. I have several spots in mind but we need to wait and see which location is preferred by most people. We also need a lot more people to chime in on the survey or the idea will die on the vine. I don't think it is practical to plan an event unless we get at least 50 responses for a given location, as the actual attendance rate is likely to be lower than the survey indicates and we don't want to invest a lot of time and planning into something and then only a small group shows up. Early survey results are promising, and I will publish the full details here after the survey closes on June 12. Stay tuned.

Funny. :-) I think GOC gets more oddball posts because it is totally free to post a classified ad and there are no moderators, whereas TGO requires a paid membership to post items for sale and has active moderators. And GOC doesn't have a separate discussion forum, so people post all sorts of rants in the classified section because that is the only venue they have. This is no bash against TGO, but I have seen some rather colorful comments in the discussion forums here as well, albeit less publicized since they are not cluttering up the classifieds. I love both forums and use them often. I have met many dozens of people through both sites and never had an issue with any of them. My experience has been that gun owners are generally good people regardless of which sites they may frequent, and even some of the crazy online personalities end up being pretty normal people when you meet them in person. Take me for instance, with a moniker of a crazy cartoon character that chases birds, invents dangerous explosive gadgets, and frequently blows himself up. But in real life.... er... wait... I guess I am a bad example... but you get the point.

Location will probably be the single biggest factor regarding who can attend. I am sure we will find a carry-friendly venue in any of the locations, even if we have to use a gun club or private property which is why I included those options on the survey. As of right now we have 14 responses, with Cookeville and Nashville tied for preferred location. If you have a preference then make sure to take the survey, and note any alternative locations in the Other field as needed.

Make sure to take the survey so that your preferences will be noted. I am not tracking preferences outside of the survey as it gets too complicated. As of right now, July 3 is the most preferred date, which kind of surprised me, but makes sense since most people will have a long weekend off work and be planning for family stuff on July 4.

We have 11 survey responses so far in less than 1 day. If this trend continues we should easily have enough people to schedule a picnic. I figure we need at least 50 people to commit to a particular day/time/place, assuming that only half of them might actually show up due to scheduling conflicts and other family happenings which tend to get in the way. Hopefully we will hit the 50 mark by Sunday June 12 when the survey closes. I will update this thread with a summary of the survey results once completed, and then we can finalize the plans based on the most popular options. Looking forward to this for sure.

Interested in a free local picnic? With the July 4 holiday weekend coming up, I thought it might be nice for us to celebrate our freedoms by getting together for a Gun Owners picnic. Nothing too fancy, just a way for people to get together and chat about guns, shooting, or whatever. I have met dozens of people through this forum and they have all been great so why not get together for a little fun, food, and sun? We could pick a date, time, and location which works for most people. It would be open to anyone: family, friends, neighbors, or whomever; but no felons of course. People could volunteer to bring simple things or just themselves. We might even have a safe area for private sales, trades, and show and tell. I am willing to serve as the event coordinator, reserve the venue, and provide a main dish. Please take this simple anonymous survey if you are interested, so we can determine the best way to move forward. The survey will be open through Sunday June 12. [survey is now closed]

Wow, I am surprised to see that SRHEC does not allow .50 BMG. I realize they only have 150 yard frames but they have a very sizable backstop and huge earthen berms between ranges so it would definitely be safe to shoot there. The argument about chewing up berms seems moot unless you are indoors or shooting against steel or cinder block or very thin earth piles, in which case the .50 BMG would definitely chew those up good, and ricochets can be dangerous even within 200 yards (seen it happen). I am guessing SRHEC doesn't allow .50 BMG for public shooters because of concern about the excessive muzzle blast distracting other shooters in nearby lanes, and because of fears over someone blowing up their rifle with a reload or other cheap surplus ammo. At any rate I am glad that I have enough land to at least test fire my new .50 BMG but it is all wooded and not large enough for any target shooting beyond 100 yards so I will have to look into Terry Walden's or Rock Castle. I just hate to waste all that time driving when I could be shooting, reloading, cleaning, etc.

Thanks for the note, however there are no further problems at this time. See my last post.

I am the proud new owner of this fine gun. First - kudos to HOOKER771 for being honest, upfront about the previous trouble, and very pleasant to deal with. He described the gun to a "T" and included excellent photos in his recent ad. He was flexible on price and meeting location and we completed the handoff earlier today. Great guy to deal with. Now for a range report: I ran it through the paces today with various types of ammo, a mixture of fast and slow pace, and strong and weak grips. Also tried shooting from low ready, high grip, low grip, and turned on the side. I tried to get it to fail but it just wouldn't cooperate. Function and accuracy were perfect without any issues. No doubling or hammer follow. Brass ejection patterns were consistent with the same ammo. It was the high quality tack driver you would expect for any DW gun. I broke it down after my shooting session including removal of the firing pin and extractor, and also disassembled the magazines. Observed that it was pretty dirty in the hidden areas such as the firing pin channel, extractor face, magazine walls, and under the grips. I gave it a thorough cleaning and all of the fouling came off with minimal effort. I polished the breech face and feed ramp and lightly buffed out the mark near the takedown latch. The two minor scuffs on the top of the slide which HOOKER771 mentioned are very difficult to see so I will leave them alone. Finished up by treating all metal parts with EEZOX and applying a few precision drops of Wilson Combat lube. The gun now looks brand new again and is resting comfortably in the safe. This was a great deal on an excellent product. I thank everyone who contributed to the process along the way.

The issue seems complex at first glance but it is actually a simple choice between two scenarios based on risk, impact, and probability: Scenario 1: You carry a firearm/ammunition or store them within your control while you are drinking or taking any substance which might potentially impact your behavior. Regardless of where they are located, loaded or not, you have access to them and could potentially obtain and use them while there is still some alcohol or substance in your system. In this scenario the risk is that you might do something irresponsible or illegal, or you might have an accident. The impact of this risk occurring would be a fine, legal fees, loss of rights, jail time, serious injury, and/or death. Scenario 2: You remove the firearm/ammunition from your control by not taking them with you or having them secured or disabled in a way that you are no longer able to access or use them. You proceed to drink or take any substance which might potentially impact your behavior. In this scenario the risk is that you or your loved ones might become crime victims; suffering loss of property, serious injury, or death. The probability of the first scenario occurring is probably lower than the second scenario for most responsible law-abiding adults. The impact is serious in both cases but you have little or no control over the probability and impact in the second scenario, thus it is generally viewed as being worse. We tend to trust ourselves more than we trust strangers or criminals, or murhpy's law. So most people would probably choose the first scenario due to the reduced probability of occurrence and higher degree of control over the impact. But if you are irresponsible, criminal, immature, or you can't control yourself while drinking or taking certain substances then your risk is higher and your control is lower, thus you should avoid the second scenario at all costs.

Long time visitor to this forum, mostly use the classifieds, but have been browsing the other areas occasionally. I am learning a lot about the application process and plan to send in for the stamp to buy a supressor for several guns. Is the average response time about 2-3 months or is this just temporarily slow due to the gun buying craze? I want to get one for 22 and one for 9mm but I really need one of them sooner for some upcoming classes. Is there any option to pay more or use express couriers for faster turnaround?

Good tip Marine. And thanks for your service! Hi Woody. Yep, I am the same WileE. In addition to cooking on my Big Green Egg and tinkering with all sorts of Acme products in my spare time, I am also an avid shooter and firearms instructor. Good to see you on this forum too. Update on the peg hook coverings: after PapaB's concern about the heat shrink tubing eventually wearing thin I went out and picked up several sections of clear vinyl tubing from the plumbing section at lowes. This stuff comes in 3 primary sizes which are useful for protecting the peg hooks to store firearms: O.D. 1/4" - works well for guns from .25 to .32 caliber when applied to small diameter pegs O.D. 5/16" - works well for guns from .32 to .380 / .38 / .357 / 9mm caliber when applied to small or medium diameter pegs O.D. 3/8" - works well for guns from .40 / 10mm / .45 / .454 / .500 when applied to medium or large diameter pegs When storing guns from .17 to .22 / .25 caliber I have to use the thinnest peg hooks with only a single thin layer of heat shrink tubing but it still works fine. Most of these guns have a smaller size and weight so they shouldn't place too much strain on the pegs anyway. The few exceptions are the long barreled heavy .22 revolvers but I can just store those across 2 peg hooks as shown in the photos above. I like using the vinyl tubing when possible because it is much thicker than the heat shrink. The only possible drawbacks to the vinyl tubing: it might have a lower melt point so in case of a fire it could fill the barrels with molten vinyl, and it tends to "grab" the barrels a bit when you remove the guns so if you are not careful then you might end up heading to the range with a section of vinyl tube in your barrel. I could glue the vinyl tubing to the peg hooks but I like the idea of being able to remove them and change sizes over time, and on most pegs the tubes actually hold on pretty good so I doubt it will be a problem. I think I am going to fill up the safe over the next few days now that I have all my peg hooks, storage bins, etc. I should have new photos up soon so we can see how it turns out. Thanks for all the comments so far. Keep the feedback and good ideas coming.

On the fire rating: the Fort Knox safes are arguably the best on the market and they normally have a total of 1" type C fireboard which provides a pretty good fire rating, usually 60-90 minutes at 1250 F or better depending on the model. I spoke with the factory guy at Fort Knox that designs and makes these safes and based on his input I decided to upgrade my safe to 1.25" of type X fireboard plus the wooden interior panels and braces so I have more fire and heat protection than the factory standard. This makes the safe a LOT heavier - it added roughly 200-300 lbs. for the new fireboard alone - but I like having the extra protection and I didn't really lose any room since I am gaining a lot by removing the interior shelves and dividers. Good tip on the heat shrink tubing PapaB. I will test out the storage for a few months and check the guns afterwards to see if any of the tubing has degraded.

Muttling - you just gave me another idea similar to Martin's suggestion. I can apply several layers of heat shrink tubing to the peg hooks until I build them up enough to be a close fit for various calibers. This will provide extra protection to prevent the pegs from wearing through and scratching the barrels and it will also allow the weight of each gun to be distributed over the full length of the peg. Heat shrink tubing is cheap when purchased in bulk and I already have a bunch. I am going to test that out today and will report back.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have quite a few guns and multiple safes so I need to maximize the storage capacity of each safe. I don't mind spending some money for the right interior or accessories but the pegboard project has been pretty cheap so far. I already own a number of different gun racks, wire shelves, and holding brackets which are similar to those that you mentioned. They are nice but unfortunately they require the use of wooden shelves to support the racks, they are not very space efficient, and they are not cheap. Nice if you only have a small collection and plenty of unused shelf space in the safe but I have found that the wooden shelves and dividers waste a lot of space inside the safe and they reduce airflow, which is why I removed them and went with the pegboard option. I think this peg hook method will work out very well as long as the pegs won't damage the barrels in any way. This design allows the majority of the interior space to be used for guns, it maximizes airflow to enhance the effectiveness of the dehumidifier and silica gel packs, it allows better interior lighting, and it provides quick easy access to every gun without any of them touching. It is also highly flexible since it can be reconfigured at any time. As soon as I get enough confirmation that the pegs won't damage the barrels then I will load it up and post a few photos of it at max capacity. I think people will be surprised how much their safes could hold if they removed the wooden shelves and installed a similar interior. Maybe the gun safe vendors don't want you to do this since you wouldn't need to buy bigger or multiple safes.

This is a good idea Martin. I had thought of doing the same thing with wooden dial rods because they are available in various diameters to match almost any caliber barrel. The problem is that I can't think of a way to drill such a long hole in a thin dial rod without splitting the dial rod, and the pegs are at least 1/8" thick so this wouldn't work for the smaller calibers. I couldn't think of any other way to attach the end of the dial rods to the pegboard and the wooden dial rods alone would not be strong enough to support the heavier guns in smaller calibers, so I went with the metal peg hooks and just coated them with heat shrink tubing. The peg hooks are available in various diameters so I can get close to the caliber of the barrel and just use the heat shrink tubing to help offset the difference and protect the gun.

Ideally I would like to hang them all like the revolver however this would drastically reduce the capacity of the safe. It is a big safe with a deep interior so the guns need to extend out into the middle of the safe otherwise I will lose about 50-75% of the capacity. The only reason I got some of those hooks was for the guns which are very large, heavy, or long barreled such that they would place too much strain on the peg hooks and possibly bend the hooks down over time. I don't want to go back to using shelves because that also reduces the capacity quite a bit and it reduces air circulation which is bad for the dehumidifier and rust prevention.

I recently asked a local gunsmith that had done some good work for me in the past. He said it should be fine so the total is now 2 FOR and 1 AGAINST. I have thought long and hard about this and I am still torn. I tend to think that the weight of the gun will be distributed across two main points: the tip of the peg hook will push against the upper inside rim of the chamber wall or rear of the barrel, and the other end of the peg hook will push against the bottom inside rim of the barrel near the muzle. So divide the weight of the gun by 2 and you get a max of 2 lbs. pressure on each point. This sounds like very litte force to be concerned about given the extreme pressures that are exerted by firing the guns. Plus if the peg hook is a snug fit for the barrel then the force is further distributed along a longer section of the peg hook thus reducing the overall load at any given point. And with the peg hooks being coated I can't see any risk of rust, scratches, etc. I am hoping to get a few more opinions on the matter before I load my entire collection into the safe. Would hate to find out 6-12 months from now that I ruined my entire collection. A bunch of new barrels would not be cheap!

I have a Fort Knox fire-rated gun safe which came with the standard carpeted particle board shelves inside. The shelves are adjustable but they take up quite a bit of the available space so I installed a new interior which I built myself. All three interior side walls are now covered with 1/4” thick wood pegboard like the kind which you would see in a garage or tool shop. The pegboard is reinforced with solid wood furring strips that run vertically and horizontally behind the pegboard. I purchased a few dozen steel peg hooks which appear to be stainless, chromed, or galvanized metal. The peg hooks range in diameter from 1/8” up to 1/4” and I coated the protruding metal pegs with black heat shrink tubing. I plan to mount the handguns by sliding the barrels of the guns over the protruding pegs. This allows me to store many more guns inside the safe while still keeping them apart and allowing maximum flexibility for spacing and future adjustments. Really heavy or long guns can be mounted sideways across two peg hooks. My question is: will it harm the handguns to hang them from the pegs in this manner? The only portion of the peg hooks which touch the guns will be fully covered with black heat shrink tubing so the peg hooks shouldn’t scratch the barrels or other firearm parts. I think this method should be ok but I just want to be sure. In the event of a fire it is possible that the metal pegs could heat up and the heat shrink tubing could melt off the pegs but the safe is fire-rated and if it gets that hot inside then I would expect damage to the guns anyway. What do you think?