midtennchip

Yeah, I read the article this morning. This is certainly a textbook case of how NOT to act after a shooting (NOTE: Guys who are planning on coming to my seminar in December, we will discuss this one). 1. Getting into a confrontation was his first mistake. If you carry a gun for self-defense, don't go looking for a confrontation. 2. Even if (and it's a BIG if) the kids had a gun, getting out of the car to keep shooting was both stupid and dangerous. 3. Leaving the scene is, perhaps, his biggest mistake from a criminal standpoint. It will be VERY hard to show a jury that he was in the right after fleeing the scene. If you shoot in self-defense, you need to be the one who calls 911 (or at least have someone call for you). 4. If this was truly a self-defense shooting, any evidence of the kids having a gun (or shooting it) would like be gone. Staying on the scene and directing LEOs to the evidence would have been a MUCH better idea. Terrible incident for both sides.

Unfortunately, early mornings will be difficult for me on weekends.

I am wondering where the rest of the video is. Looks like the TV station did a lot of editing. If the clerk shot the guy right after that one punch, I would not be surprised if the clerk gets charged with aggravated assault (or worse if the guy dies). I don't see anything cls to imminent threat of death or gret bodily injury (under TN law). Not sure what the standard is in Texas.

Here are some POTENTIAL dates. If I get sufficient responses to one of these dates, I will confirm it here. If neither of these dates work out, I will try to do it in January. I will likely do the seminar a second time (probably in January) for those who cannot attend the first one. Here are the proposed dates: Saturday Dec 15th at 1 or 2pm Sunday Dec 16th at 2pm I would expect it to last about 2 hours (maybe less). Let me know if you are planning on coming. Once I get sufficient responses, I will post the confirmed date and time in this thread AND in a thread in my vendor forum.

The other thread mentioned by OhShoot came to mind when I read this article this morning. This is precisely why the so called "castle doctrine" does not provide anything more than a presumption of reasonable fear. There are actual facts that can overcome the presumption. This is just one example. Although this one seems really clear, there are other factual situations hat would also overcome the presumption.

[quote name='fauklin' timestamp='1353893954' post='850635'] Thank you for that. Do you have any input to the interpretation of "unlawful and forceable entry"? Bionic Post [/quote] I think Jay had it right. Case law on that has held that any force used is enough. However, I always say to use caution on these. A more conservative reading is good. But, I would expect that anyone who entered a closed door or window would have forcibly entered.

[quote name='fauklin' timestamp='1353884781' post='850567'] I definitely agree with you on collateral damage. As to the interpretation of "presumption ", i would refer that question to my lawyer. I could also see where the phrase "unlawful and forceable entry" could be left to legal interpretation as well. Bionic Post [/quote] Well, this lawyer agrees with those who have said that the presumption is not a blanket allowance. Presumption means that it can be overcome by the facts. Also, it appears many people are interchanging "reasonable belief of imminent threat" with "threat." Those are NOT the same. The law presumes the shooter's state of mind, not the actions of the intruder. The distinction is important. For example, if a 6 year old came through the door and as presumed to be a threat, a prosecutor could show that there was no way the 6 year old was an actual threat and defeat the presumption. But if the 6 year old came through the door in the dark and you are presumed to be in fear of your life, it doesn't matter if the 6 year old was an actual threat. What matters is your state of mind. So, if you find someone in your house and he immediately stops, there is a distinct possibility that a prosecutor could show that you were not, in fact, in fear for your life. The presumption just changes who has to prove it. If facts exist that allow the prosecutor to PROVE that you were not in reasonable fear, you still lose.

[quote name='zgunbear' timestamp='1353435086' post='848789'] What is the actual address? I am looking for it [/quote] Not exacting sure. If you are trying to use GPS, I would type in 100 Beasley Drive and it should get you within a 100 yards or so. If you find O-Reilly Autoparts on South Columbia Ave., Beasley is just across Columbia from it and the shop is in the first building on the right side.

[quote name='Admiral Jedi' timestamp='1353382512' post='848603'] One just popped up in Spring Hill too. What's the name of your friend's? Is that near Hwy 31 and Mack Hatcher? [/quote] Yes, it is just north of the Mack Hatcher intersection. The name is Arms and Ammo.

At the risk of providing unauthorized advertising, I thought I would mention that a new gun store opened last week in Franklin. The owner is a friend of mine and should become a vender on TGO very soon. It is a small shop on Beasley Drive ( just off South Columbia between Target and True Value Hardware). I took a friend in today for his first AR purchase. Ammo and gun prices were good. He will be significantly cheaper than the other 2 shops in Franklin and ammo appears to be close (probably not cheaper, but close) to Wally World prices.

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1353342840' post='848185'] Not really sure I understand what you are asking. You cannot use deadly force to protect your property or prevent trespassing. The only time deadly force can be used is to protect yourself or another from having deadly force used upon you or another. You cannot shoot someone for trespassing unless they are threatening you with deadly force while trespassing. Dolomite [/quote] I agree with Dolomite. Not sure what you are really asking.

Anyone here a painter or know a good painter in the Fanklin area? I need someone for some interior painting and maybe painting my kitchen cabinets.

I am still working on this. However, I will probably have to wait until after Thanksgiving before finalizing the date. Hopefully, we'll be able to do this in December, but it might have to wait until January.

[quote name='Capt. Thunder' timestamp='1352514588' post='842859'] Bud's gun shop. Look in the "police supply" section [/quote] Yeah, I saw that and it does say retired military are eligible on their website. We were just hoping someone local had a similar program.

[quote name='graycrait' timestamp='1352506140' post='842779'] I know a shop that gives active, reserve, retired military, active teachers, local university students, fire fighters and LEO (retired with creds) discounts. [/quote] Can you PM me the name? Thanks.

I have a colleague who is a former Navy SEAL. He is finally looking to buy an AR. I am trying to help him track down a shop that offers any of the military discount programs. Does anyone know who (if anyone) is handling military discounts on an AR? Thanks, Chip

I have had a number of people ask about the video. However, I think there are a couple of problems with it. First, I don't know that I want something that could be considered "legal advice" posted on the internet, particularly without editing and a lot of "off the cuff" answers to questions. If I were going to post this kind of thing on the interest for all to see, I would want to have a more controlled environment with significant editing. Second, this will be designed to be more of a discussion (with me leading the discussion into various areas), so having an "active" videographer who could pick up all the comments/questions from all of the different participants would be needed. If there's a way to post it on TGO and keep it to TGO members, then I would not necessarily be against it. If that's possible, someone let me know and I'll be happy to look into it. With all that said, I MAY be interested in traveling a couple of times to put on similar seminars in other areas of the state. I go to West Tennessee fairly regularly, so that could probably be done. Going toward Knoxville and/or Chattanooga would need more planning.

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1352046068' post='838879'] There are many threads here about this. Bottom line is that many of us would have an FFL but city/county codes won’t allow it. If your city and county will allow you to have a gun business in your home; it’s pretty cheap (use to be $200) and easy. But the BATF will check that. [/quote] This is the biggest issue I have faced with clients. Check your local zoning laws first.

I think I have a better location figured out. Looking at a place on White Bridge Road in Nashville. For those not familiar with White Bridge Road, it is just south of I-440 in Nashville. Pretty easy to get to off I-440. Would that location work (assuming that the date we decide on will also work)?

As soon as I get my son's basketball schedule, I will work on a couple of dates. Probably will have one in December and maybe one in January.

Sorry to see it. I had a kid on my Fall baseball team do also exactly the same thing about a month ago. Looked like he had two elbows. Really bad, but evidently, it didn't require surgery (not sure why). Doctor told his dad that he kid was likely in shock almost immediately. he doesnt seem to remember much pain. But he was only the third player (including my son) to get a cast this past Fall baseball season. Maybe it's in the water.

Well, with this much interest, I guess I am on the hook now. However, he next problem is enough space. I am going to look into bigger space and get this on the calendar. But I may just do a couple of different dates and keep it small. My idea is to keep it small enough to have real interaction among attendees, rather Han a pure lecture format. I will start working on dates.

Guys: Just thinking about the possibility of having a legal seminar to discuss the following: 1. General self-defense legal issues; 2. Aftermath issues; 3. Evidence and jury issues; 4. Hiring an attorney; 5. Hiring experts; and 6. Potential civil suits. Might add another topic or two if people really want to hear information on another topic. This would be held in Franklin (most likely), but would be a free event. I also promise not to make it an infomercial. Really just gearing this toward expanding knowledge of TGO members. If you have any interest, please let me know. Probably would do this on a Saturday (or possibly a Sunday afternoon). If there's sufficient interest, might do it a couple of times.

Guys, I don't want to make this an advertisement, but there are a number of things to consider here. No offense to Mike, but I wouldn't just look to the best known criminal attorneys in town. In a self-defense case, you need an attorney who knows guns, gun training, and the right experts who can testify on your behalf. I know a LOT of really good defense attorneys who I would not use in a self-defense case. There are a number of ways to go about it, but I would suggest starting with one of the attorney advertisers on TGO. there is one in each division of Tennessee. There are also a few on here that are not advertisers, but are good attorneys who could handle a self-defense case. I think an initial call or email would allow you to ask what would be needed to "retain" that attorney. Each will have a different requirement for that. I am contemplating hosting a meeting where attendees could discuss self-defense law, aftermath issues, retaining attorneys, hiring experts, and similar issues. It would be held in Franklin, but would be a free event. I will post that in a different post to avoid hijacking this thread, though.

Not sure I understand the comment. What I suspect the lawyer is trying to do is get discovery through the civil suit that he would not be able to get through the criminal case. It doesn't have anything to do with evidence being allowed in the civil case that would not be allowed in the criminal case.