Chucktshoes

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1165588" timestamp="1404577758"]Most of our machine tool manufactures are already overseas which would cause us major problems in a large scale war. Do we really want our guns manufactured in a foreign country? American gun manufactures are still the best in the world.[/quote] I think you are talking about now, I was talking about the initial issue of the M14 and its replacement by the M16. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1165580" timestamp="1404576751"]I knew about that. Didn't have anything to do with sand. Had to do with longer engagement ranges. [/quote] I didn't say it did. I was just answering the question of M14 reissue. To be honest, I don't think we should have ever issued the M14. The FAL is/was a superior rifle that was available at the time and in wide use amongst ally nations. The M14 was a poor offering and it was well replaced by its successor. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1165568" timestamp="1404575854"]I think you are getting the M14 and the M4 mixed up. AFIK, the M14 hasn't been issued in any significant quantity since the early Vietnam years. Did I miss something?[/quote] Yeah. M14s were dusted off, upgraded and reissued to troops in 2010 for use as a DMR. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I specIfically designated a particular type of training in reply to the references to the explosion of "tactical" trainers. For the vast majority of participants that's exactly what they are, a fantasy camp. If you are LEO and using this in your daily job, I'm not talking about you, in this thread. (See threads on militarization of LE for my words for that!) If your rifle is part of your home defense setup and you attend class using your gear in the same manner you would at home (like me) I'm not talking to you. If you are .mil and using these classes to increase your skill set for combat, obviously not talking to you. If you are someone who gets all dolled up in tac vests, plate carriers and camo that only comes out for class. You are who I am talking about.

I know you'll be really happy to get back here Earline. Hope it happens for ya.

[quote name="Sam1" post="1165246" timestamp="1404486628"]Shouldn't take any kind of training serious because any kind of a self-defense situation will end up with both parties out on the lawn with dueling pistols, right?[/quote] That's not at all what I wrote. Try again. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Let's be honest here. Carbine classes, tactical training, etc. arefor the vast majority of participants nothing more than a fantasy camp for the gun crowd. Very much in the same vein as a football fantasy camp where you get to spend a weekend working out and scrimmaging with a couple of over the hill NFL second stringers.

Now, take that treadmill speed it up to a full run and hop on, get the heart rate up. Hop off engage a set of targets, holster & repeat. I can see that. But I am not going to be on a treadmill with gun in hand where I run the risk of a trip on the moving treadmill. That would be some bad juju. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="kingarmory" post="1164853" timestamp="1404358463"]Nah, much love for the Memphis crowd, its just a town with an abnormally high amount of "rough areas". Don't look at it as "Memphis", more like "FOB Elvis" ;)[/quote] That is just damned funny. Bravo. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

True story.

We're there at least twice a week. We will still continue to be there at least twice a week. Our carry guns will be too.

In all seriousness, MSRP on the Sig is $460. Call it $400 street new, $350 in trade value. Plus 1k of .22lr. I think they are actually reasonably equitable in value. I look at it as an even trade. 

These days that 1k of .22 is probably worth more than the Sig it comes with. :lol:

Simple answer is that they don't.

Accountability that won't ever come as long as the concept of qualified immunity exists in American jurisprudence. While the equipment is less important than accountability, it is still an important issue. I know you are familiar with the concept "the clothes make the man." I remember it being used to great effect when I was in basic training. "Here is your uniform. You look like an Airman, now it is time to act like one!" This is the concept currently at work in the militarization of LE across the nation. LEAs are increasingly being equipped like military units, dressing like military units, using military terminology to describe themselves, recruiting former military personnel and using military tactics to carry out their missions. All of this engenders a war/combat mindset in the officers. Law enforcement is not a military mission. You and I have lightly touched upon this subject before. You don't object to the use of military hardware and tactics stateside, I do. While a 3am raid where you kick down a door of a structure and rush the occupants before they can respond in a clear headed manner may be an entirely appropriate tactic when the targets are enemy soldiers in a combat zone, it isn't in a US city when dealing with citizens. 

I informed a couple of LE friends of mine about it in the last couple of weeks. Neither one had seen any information at all come through the official departmental channels. That was for MPD and SCSO. I found that more than a little bit unsettling to be honest.

Cool! An invisible knife. I guess you could use it for an assassination or something since nobody would see it and know you had it.  :rofl:

[quote name="TrickyNicky" post="1164540" timestamp="1404317828"]I approve.[/quote] As do I. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="bersaguy" post="1164599" timestamp="1404323785"] plus adding that target is owned by a French Corporation located in France.................jmho[/quote] Target was founded in Minneapolis, MN in 1902 and is still headquartered there. It is not, and never was owned by any French entity. There is a longstanding joke about Target being a French store and pronouncing the name as Tar-jhay. That has more to do with joking about Target being more upscale than Walmart when in reality they are both mass market, big box discount retailers. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Here's the thing, in reality, they did nothing at all. They did the exact same thing as Starbucks and Chipotle. They released a statement asking customers to leave their guns at home. The focus of which is directed at asshats like Open Carry Texas and others walking around with rifles. What is important to take note of is what they didn't do.(just like Starbucks and Chipotle) That is post their locations against carry. Moms Demand Action From Bloomberg gets to crow about a victory while normal folks will continue to go about their business and carry into Target like we always have before. Target gets to go about their business of selling stuff to folks who don't like going to Walmart instead of being used as a pawn by both sides of a debate they couldn't give a shit about. If we 2A folks really want to do ourselves a favor we would stop dragging innocent 3rd parties into it. This isn't a zero sum, with us or against us fight. Let MDAFB make asses of themselves instead of helping them accomplish their goals by being egotistical dickwads. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="TMF" post="1164564" timestamp="1404320570"]I disagree with that sentiment. It is the same argument liberals use for gun control. They believe the mere ownership of a firearm will compel otherwise law abiding individuals to commit crimes with said weapon. I don't believe police are any more compelled to violate a person's civil rights simply because they have an aggressive tool to do so. There were dirty cops violating civil rights back when citizens were better armed than police, per capita and armor didn't exist.I understand what you're trying to say; that cops having a new toy are gonna be excited for an opportunity to use it. I'm sure that's true. I don't agree that driving an APC to serve a warrant as opposed to driving a golf cart violates any rights. Perhaps it makes them look scarier, but that is a policy issue that can be changed by the people if they engage the civilian leadership.Personally, I don't care if cops serve a warrant in chain mail on the back of a dragon. What matters is whether or not they violate a person's rights when the do it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote] If we were talking about private individuals I would totally agree with you, but we are not. Now, if you remove qualified immunity from the equation entirely, I wouldn't care what LEAs equip themselves with to do the job as they would be on the hook not just collectively, but individually for what they did with it. That fact is that a SWAT team can drive their bearcat through someone's door at 3 am, shoot everyone and then when they find out that they raided the wrong house, the taxpayers get the bill for the settlement check to the next of kin. The officers don't go to jail for murder. They might get a couple of days of paid vacation and then the LEA releases a statement that while it was a tragic accident, "the officers acted within the guidelines of departmental policy." Then it is back to SOP and the next midnight raid/murder. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Sometimes the demonstrated tendency for abuse of a thing outweighs the possible benefits of it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[quote name="TN-popo" post="1164508" timestamp="1404308872"]Within the last several months, my agency's SWAT and Crisis Negotiators responded to a barricaded suspect where rounds had been fired. This was in a neighborhood. It would have been a Hostage Situation, but the wife escaped out the front door. Negotiations failed. I can tell you, when rounds started bouncing off the armored vehicle, the "armored" part was comforting. Also, without too much detail, the vehicle was instrumental in ending the situation without loss of life (ie, snipers were onscene and standing by as an option).[/quote] As one of the more ardent critics of the militarization of LE, let me say that I think this is a just and proper use for this equipment & SWAT. Most folks I know don't have any problem with this kind of situation. What we object to is when the MRAP/Bearcat/APC and SWAT are brought out on narcotics raids or to serve warrants. That's not a proper use as instead responding to an imminent danger to innocent life, it creates it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You sure about that? Hate to break it to you, but they have a high center of gravity and make a ford explorer with firestone tires look glued to the road with the ease in which they can rollover.  :rofl: