Chucktshoes

I'm not ignoring the intangibles you bring up, I just don't view them the way you do. Your measurements of strength and weakness are built on an idea of interventionism in other's affairs. If you are attempting to tell others how to run their business, you have to appear strong enough to force them to bend to your will if disobeyed. If we let others be, that posturing would be unnecessary.    You also bring up Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, focusing on the actual attack and not the actions taken by the Roosevelt administration to provoke it in an effort to change public opinion and bring us into WWII. The administration froze Japanes assets in America; closing the Panama Canal to her shipping; progressively halting vital exports to Japan until we finally joined Britain in an all-out embargo; sending a hostile note to the Japanese ambassador implying military threats if Tokyo did not alter its Pacific policies; and on November 26th — just 11 days before the Japanese attack — delivering an ultimatum that demanded, as prerequisites to resumed trade, that Japan withdraw all troops from China and Indochina, and in effect abrogate her Tripartite Treaty with Germany and Italy. It has been pretty well documented that Roosevelt knew about the attack prior to it actually happening. It could have been avoided and intentionally wasn't.   All of that is to make one simple point. If we stop meddling in other folks' affairs, we wouldn't have to spend so much blood and treasure abroad. I won't say the lives of those lost in the Iraq/Afghanistan were wasted, but they weren't necessary.

Ha! It's what we do. I know everyone would have found something else to debate had you not posted this topic.  :rofl:

So what exactly did the actions of a bunch of Saudis operating out of Afghanistan have to do with Iraq? :shrug:  It's been 13 years and the people who were responsible for those 3k deaths are all dead themselves now (along with thousands of allied troops and hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan) so 9/11 has lost its luster as a rallying cry. I was against the invasion of Iraq the first time, I will be against it the second time. We have been meddling in the M/E for damn near a century and it has brought us nothing but heartache and corpses. How about we give them what they want, what we need, and leave them to their own devices and mind our own damn business for a change. It's not our circus, not our monkeys. Time to act accordingly.

Considering the penchant our government has for engaging in violence against other countries, how would you feel if they had the means to engage in that sort of preemptive behavior towards us? A Senator says that we are going to force regime change in X country and so they launch a couple of cruise missiles at us. That's fair, right? Self defense is fine, but self defense requires more justification than a threat. Especially when the ones making the threat don't have the real means to carry out that threat. 

Another Apex DCAEK here. Apex is the beginning and end of this search.

The reason I asked what you meant by "we" is that it seemed very binary in its perspective. There are more than Democrats and Republicans. I personally find the Republican platform as repulsive as that of the Democrats. So, if the Republicans are the "we" then count me out.

So we should send thousands of folks to die because a couple of reporters got themselves captured and killed in an active war zone? Yeah..ummm...Nope.

Basically, this is my view. If there isn't an attack on US soil, we need to keep our asses home. Embassies are fine as conduits for trade, but we need to shutter our military bases worldwide. Why the hell are we still underwriting the defense of half of Europe almost 70 years after the end of WWII? I am not an isolationist, but I am absolutely a non-interventionist. As far as the reporters beheaded by ISIS, the world is a dangerous place. When you go traipsing into war zones, shit happens.

[quote name="Ugly" post="1186661" timestamp="1409960188"]I think it's ridiculous. The dems will be proud we are bickering about crap like this. Clinton must've been wonderful! That'll put the other one in place, great job all![/quote] "We"? Please elaborate.

[quote name="RC3" post="1186658" timestamp="1409959716"]Im just reading all the responses. It was such a funny shift from lets go and fight them, to we should have left saddam in place. I will remain neutral and watch the show. I will say this tho, there are some good points.[/quote] My position will always be consistent. The question I ask is this, what right do we have to intervene in the internal affairs of another nation?

[quote name="LINKS2K" post="1186172" timestamp="1409805654"]No way! Bush was a world class Wiley Coyote f*ck up. I'll beat some of the parrots to the punch by saying so is Obama, but without W's ego and Haliburton/ Cheneys greed we would be dealing with some other crisis other than Isis that comes from our medling around in the middle east. You must remember than I'm in the blame Bush crowd. In my opinion, Bush gave us Obama on a silver platter. It could have been worse. Bush was so bad that I'm surprised that neither of the self serving reverends didn't run and win the presidency.[/quote] Not only did Bush give us O, he gave us ISIS. If we hadn't taken Saddam out in 03, the entire region wouldn't have been destabilized and ISIS wouldn't exist.

[quote name="LagerHead" post="1185882" timestamp="1409759810"]I can certainly appreciate good artwork, no matter the canvas or medium. My only problem with tats is, I don't like the same music I did five years ago. I don't like the same beer I did five years ago. I don't like the same food I did five years ago. With very few exceptions, I don't like the same people I did five years ago. I find it very hard to conceive of something I would like well enough now that five years from now, let alone twenty or thirty, I would still be equally satisfied with having it permanently inked on my body. But hey, if others can find something with that much meaning, good on 'em. I am certainly not one to judge others' taste in art, since mine is so questionable. [/quote] I'm not the same person I was 15+ years ago when I got my first one. That's ok. They are a physical memorial to who I was at that time. My tattoos tell the story of my life.

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1185566" timestamp="1409682096"]The latter will happen sometime after Obama legalizes machine guns with an executive order. :)[/quote] Not all memorials commemorate a sad event. Some are celebratory in nature. ;)

[quote name="TMF" post="1185260" timestamp="1409582883"]Does anyone know how to clean bloodstains at the DNA level and where to get lye in bulk? No reason, just asking. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote] You can get the lye here. [URL]http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/sodium-hydroxide-lye/[/URL] As far as the other question, it depends on what you want to clean it out of. Or so I have been told.

The producers are shopping it elsewhere and considering the ratings numbers it pulled in, I would expect it to find a new home. It did garner higher ratings than any other scripted show on the network. This cancellation had more to do with A&E owning its own content as opposed to paying outside production companies. 

I'm surprised the rumors that his character is gay haven't been brought up yet in this discussion. That'll really get the thread off and running.  :rofl:

That's as plausible a scenario as any. I couldn't argue against it.

When that happens, I'll be right there he asked for it and marvelling at his luck in lasting that long. 

  Didn't I see somewhere that Lenny actually has a lawyer representing him now? It looks like he is listening.

That's totally justified and correct as long as people don't do so under the color of law. ;)

I like the sentiment, but I think it would fail to achieve the ends of forcing the city to make sure they do right. I don't want Embody to be rewarded for his fishing expedition, but I also want the city to be heavily sanctioned for placing themselves on his hook. How do you sufficiently sanction the latter in such a manner that they don't do it again while not rewarding the former? I find myself having to take the position that malfeasance by the state is a worse crime than being a fucking douchebag.

My mother was (and I use the past tense intentionally) one of those victims of sexual abuse by her father who was well into adulthood before she was able to take control of her own life and sever the ties. It was only after a lot of therapy that she was able to take that control and no longer identify as a "victim" in the present tense.

I used to be a bit of a lead footed speed demon. Since I have spent the last two months driving a big truck, I feel like I am absolutely flying when I go driving in my Xterra. Then I look down and realize I am only doing 35mph. :rofl:  Yep, I'm a slow poke now.

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1184237" timestamp="1409273182"]So, Lenny can plan one of these episodes for months, stressing the law to the limit to make it appear that he is doing something illegal, but they can't bend things to fit him? Doesn't intent mean anything? Damn, I miss the days when they could just hit you with a stick when you asked for it.[/quote] To put it simply, nope. Whose intent? Yours or Bloomberg's. The rule of law protects you and me just the same as it protects Lenny's ignorant ass. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD