dcloudy777

Hello esteemed TN gun owners, I'd like to start a new monthly discussion topic, to promote well, discussion, and get all of us thinking and expressing and bouncing information off of one another so we all get smarter. Massad Ayoob refererred to such debates as "Rolling Rock Topics", that is, he would gladly discuss them after whichever class he was teaching was over, and over a Rolling Rock beer. Well, I don't drink beer, but I do enjoy a cherry slushee now and again, so that's what I'll call my little contribution. This one's handgun related, but they may pop up in other forums if applicable. June is almost over, so I'll go ahead and make this one for June and July: Which makes for a more effective defensive handgun load, slow heavy bullets or light fast ones? I'm a pretty heavy, pretty fast fan myself, but that's cheating. Everybody knows that the 10mm ended this argument, but for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend like it didn't. What do you think??

Hey, if it don't feel right, it ain't right... DanO

We've had a couple come through the store, and I've shot the 9mm version. It pretty much handles like a polymer-framed 92FS. Its biggest drawback in my opinion is it's about 9 feet wide. For the life of me I can't figure out Beretta's obsession with wide pistols. Even the little pocket guns are wider than they need to be. Maybe the Italians want everybody to know that they have big hands... As to durablility, Berettas in general have a stellar reputation. A large percentage of the US military's M9s are WAY past their planned life expectancy and still throwing lead downrange. (The M9 I was issued in Bosnia definitely had gray hair and dentures ). Beretta also has an excellent rep for customer service, and standing behind products long after the expressed warranty has elapsed. I think the .45 PX4 will be a fine gun, just wide. I do like the new Smith M&P .45 way better though... DanO

That does look interesting... the first real single-stack, concealment-oriented take on the modular frame concept... I'll start looking into price points and availability dates... DanO Update: Pricing looks initially to be around the $600 mark, pretty much the same ballpark as the Glock-XD-M&P crowd. This could be a real winner... less than an inch wide with "real bullets"... I'll see if I can get a timeframe for availability.

Wes, just so you know, CZ also makes the CZ97B, which is basically your 75 chambered in .45ACP. I'm pretty sure I know a local shop where you can get one, sorry if I added to your list... DanO

Man, why did it take me so much longer to say that?? DanO

The original PDW 5.7X28mm concept , which dates back 10 the late 1980s, was indeed a highly specialized beast. The FN P90, and later the FiveseveN, was intended as a personal defense weapon for REMFs in a theater of operations more like "conventional land warfare" than low-intensity conflicts against non-uniformed insurgents like we seem to be fighting these days. In such a scenario (I.E. ground combat against the Warsaw Pact in Western Europe), enemy soldiers would have been soldiers from standing national forces, which would likely be wearing some sort of body armor. Rear echelon types were currently being armed in the main with pistols or pistol-caliber submachine guns, which, with very few exceptions, are incapable of penetrating body armor at all. This left the support troops practically unarmed against combat-arms units. The PDW concept was born of a need to find a weapon system that would penetrate the armor, but still be very small and lightweight as to not overly interfere with the primary mission of the support troops. Basically, any terminal ballistics against armored soldiers was better than nothing, which is what the 9mm cartridge provided. Now, we gun people being the way we are, we quickly want the same sort of toys the soldiers get to play with, especially when they are funky and sexy looking like the P90. The feds certainly didn't want the armor-piercing rounds in the hands of us mere peasants, so FN developed loads that would not pentrate body armor. What resulted, IMHO, was neither fish nor fowl, too slow to damage with rifle-like cavitation and fragmentation, and without sufficient mass or diameter to create much of a permanent wound cavity. With the original armor-defeating round, its a great concept which has found a definite niche in law enforcement and various armed forces. (Although the HK MP7 and its 4.6X33mm round seem to be doing better in that regard worldwide). With the "safer" ammo, it's pretty much just a novelty, albeit a really cool one (we love shooting our demo PS90 when we can afford it). DanO

I'm not the biggest .357SIG fan in the world either, but 1250fps is about 150fps shy of .357Mag performance using 125-130gr bullets. Even the ISPC open racers, among many of whom the "Major 9" is the new darling, are topping out at around 1350fps or so, and that's with purpose-built space guns engineered and sprung for the higher pressures. You cannot (safely) replicate .357Mag ballistics out of a 9mm case, not unless you compare it to some of the watered-down loads available from commercially for the magnum. Further, when loaded to its potential, the .357 easily tops 1500fps with the same 125gr projectiles, leaving the 9mm and the .357SIG way behind. That being said, the +P+ 127gr Ranger load from Winchester is a very impressive acheivement, and definitely an excellent choice for social purposes. Now, IMHO, the .357SIG gives up more to the .40S&W in terms of versatility and load selection than it does to the 9mm. The 135gr .40 loads come very close to .357SIG velocities, but the .40 retains the ability to handle much heavier bullets, up to 200grains. The major manufacturers have limited the .357SIG to the 125gr load, with only specialty outfits like Double Tap offering 115gr and 147gr chamberings. In short, the .357SIG might be able to do a little more than the 9mm, but the .40 can do everything the .357SIG can do and a whole lot more. Of course, shot placement is approximately 9,546,357.045 time more important, but caliber wars are fun... besides, the 10mm leaves them all in the dust... DanO

I just got off the phone with a very happy molonlabetn.... something Polish just showed up at the shop, and it ain't no kielbasa.... DanO

Hey Brent... that sounds like a nice gun, a real family heirloom. The .38 DA Perfected was a variation of the Safety Hammerless line. The Perfected was produced from 1909 through 1911, with around 59,400 being built. The most notable departures from the rest of the Safety Hammerless line were the hand-ejector-esque thumbpiece and the integral trigger guard. All of the other SH models had a trigger guard that was a seperate part from the frame. Values seem to vary widely based on condition, coming in between $200 and $600, but S&W prices keep going up rapidly. One note, the gun is chambered for .38S&W, NOT .38 Special. Ammo is availble, but pricey. You probably wouldn't to want shoot it anyway. Hope that helps, can't wait to see pictures. DanO

Hello, this appears to be a really nice local forum, and we've needed one, so that's cool. I'm Dan Overcast, Guns & Ammo manager at Hero-Gear in Winchester. Yes, I work with Joe and Sammy 6 days a week . I hope I can come up with something to contribute on this forum... other than give Joe a chance to fire me in public. DanO