dcloudy777

  The car itself can do far more damage than any gun inside it... maybe we should all just give up driving, so nobody can steal our cars and hurt someone.  

Just go get a CZ75 and forget that Austrian nonsense.  The Czechs perfected the 9mm service handgun while Gaston was still making shovels.  :pleased:

Ironically, I think the "Car Carry" bill that did pass will cost the state a lot more money in permit revenue than permitless open carry.    I know quite a few people that only want to get an HCP to carry in their vehicle.  I don't know anyone who didn't already have an HCP that was planning on open carrying if the law passed. 

  Nice... actually... now that I think of it, having #777 of 50 would be hilarious.   :rofl:

Hear, hear. Payment isn't due for 5 weeks... Set aside 35 bucks a week and you're golden.

IN!!!

  I'm sitting here playing with the PT Godfather I just bought, and the button seems to fall right under the index finger when I hold it in the left hand... very easy to activate. 

Excellent choice.  Looking very forward to this.

Well, I doubt we'll make it up to 777, so I'm cool with whatever number.  :up:   ETA:  My PT Godfather just arrived... I'd forgotten just how high the quality of Protech's stuff is.  Incredible.  If you're on the fence about this one... jump.  :rock:

Thanks so much for running point on this, Willis. Just another thought... I know I wouldn't mind adding a few bucks per knife to give to the Knife Rights folks.... They deserve it for helping us win this battle.

Well, I can't exactly back out now, can I?   I'm in.  And I just ordered a Godfather yesterday.  :rofl:   Maybe the CQ7?  

  A specially marked commemorative auto from Protech, Microtech, or some other maker celebrating our legal victory would be awesome.  Anybody here have any contacts with a manufacturer?   I'd totally throw a couple hundred bucks at a high-quality  "Tennessee Blade Freedom" automatic.  :up:

PFC Jackalope can do way more damage with his car than a pistol, and we let him drive on base.... 

Just ordered a Protech Godfather from BladeOps.  :rock:

Since you're re-threading the barrel anyway, I'd consider cutting a tad off and recrowning, and then threading.  The muzzle crowns on some of those older Minis are just terrible, and have a lot to do with the crappy accuracy rep they have. 

The TAG/Shellback Banshee is an excellent plate carrier for around $100.

  The biggest drawback of the 20 gauge is that it severely limits your choices in both guns and ammo.  Reduced recoil 12 gauge loads are available in buckshot and slugs, and feel like birdshot loads when you're shooting.  The buckshot choices for 20 gauge are pretty lousy.  There are a few low-recoil slug loads, but I'm not familiar with any buckshot loads that aren't full power.  Heck, there aren't very many buckshot loads available at all. 

  Okay, I'm back at my computer, so I'll address your questions in order.     1.  The pistol grip stock gives more leverage to the strong-side arm, and requires less perceived effort to point in different directions.  You can feel this difference for yourself:  take something like a flashlight or a large wrench and "point" it at the target (bending the wrist)... move it around and "point" it at different objects.  Now, take the same object and hold it straight up and down vertically... and move it around the same way... it's easier to move from target to target, right?  That's just the way the human arm works.  That being said, I still prefer the traditional stock... your mileage may vary.   2.  Benelli and FN (the SLP is what I shoot in 3-gun) make outstanding autoloading guns.  The Remington Versamax and Mossberg 930 series guns also have good reputations, but I have no personal experience with them.  The Saiga AK-type shotgun can be built to be very good as well.  All of these are significantly more expensive than pump shotguns.  Most of these are more expensive than a basic AR15.   3.  $400 should get you into an 870 or 590 easily.  As for autos, the Mossberg guns start around $600, and it just goes up from there.... to be honest I haven't bought a shotgun in years, I'm sure others here are more "current" with pricing information.   4. Your assumption is correct.  Prag posted an excellent chart.  :up:   5. The "select-slug" drill is just a method for changing the type of shell that's in the chamber.  Here's a scenario:  You are carrying your shotgun, loaded with 00 buck, when you are engaged by a threat around 75 yards away.  The odds of stopping that threat with 00 (or any shotshell) are pretty much nonresistant.  You need a slug.  Luckily, you have two or three in your sidesaddle, and you know where they will hit at 75 yards because you paid attention to DCloudy777.  :wave: The "select-slug" drill is a way (there are several methods) to get the shotshell that's currently in the chamber out, and that slug in... hopefully in a timely fashion. 6.  A "Turkey Choke" is basically what the industry calls a choke constriction tighter than "Extra Full".  I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about chokes.  Cylinder bore can do everything you need a shotgun to do against people.  Interchangeable choke tubes are a plus, and can enhance the capabilities of the shotgun, but not really all that much when you're talking about using it for defense.  Also remember that if you have different choke tubes, you will have different shot patterns at every range, and that's more stuff you have to learn and know.  Also, slug point-of-impact can vary a LOT with different choke tubes (I learned this one the hard way at a match).  :yuck:   I don't know about an 870 that uses nonstandard barrels, but that doesn't mean that Remington hasn't made one.  If they did, I'd avoid it too.    Hope that's helpful.  The training mentioned in a couple of the above posts is a very, very good idea as well.  I don't know Mr. Harris, but he has an excellent reputation.  I'll give you as much free internet wisdom as you can stand, but I'm just a guy that has shot a lot of guns and talks too much... no substitute for a good trainer and hands-on.   :rofl:     DanO

Funny... But the Czechs perfected the Glock back in about 1975.

Spend a little more and get the SIG P938.   It's my new "J-frame".  Wearing it as a backup gun right now.

  Fair enough.   Autoloading shotguns are awesome, but expensive (the ones that work anyway), so the pump is likely where you're at.   See if you can try the 870 and the Mossberg 590 (avoid the 500 like the plague, made of aluminum... steel is better in shotgun world). Quality-wise they're pretty much the same, it's a matter of preference.  If you like the pistol-grip + stock like you mentioned, the safety placement on the Mossberg is terrible for that.   As for the stock... the pistol grip swings a little faster, and is easier to move around with one hand.  The traditional stock points more naturally for most people, and is faster to load.  Again, try to shoot both kinds of gun and see which you prefer.  Stocks aren't terribly expensive, and you can always change your mind later.   As to "cruiser" style pistol-grip only shotguns... you didn't mention those.  Good.   :pleased:  Don't.  Unless you're breaching doors or just look for a range toy, they're worse than useless.     Whatever you decide on, understand that the shotgun is the toughest small-arm to learn how to "fight" effectively.  It starts out low on ammo, and just gets worse with every shot.  Practice loading.  A lot.  Several companies make dummy rounds that work great for this.  Sidesaddles work well for carrying a little extra ammo, and there are good belt carriers available too.  Basically with a shotgun if you aren't actively engaging targets, you should be shoving shells in the tube.   Ammo selection isn't as critical with the shotgun as it is with other systems.  Basically buckshot in #1, 0, 00, or 000 will do a very effective job of stopping threats.  Anything smaller will not reliably achieve the penetration into a human target  necessary to stop a threat.  #4 buck is pretty marginal, IMHO stick with #1 or larger.  Reduced recoil loads are beneficial.. you give up practically nothing in performance and get faster follow up shots.  Pattern your load of choice at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, and 25 yards.  You need to know where the pellets are going to go at each of those distances.  Maybe stretch it out to 40 or so if you have the room.   Birdshot is for practice (you should buy and shoot a lot of it), 3-gun matches (if you do that sorta thing) and, well, birds.  It has no place in an anti-personnel role.  None.  Absolutely none.  The only legitimate reason for using birdshot against people is if you don't have anything else.    I'd recommend a good reduced recoil slug as well, especially since you don't yet have the rifle.  Learn where it hits at 10, 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards.  A slug of three is good thing to have on a sidesaddle or other ammo carrier.  Learn the "select-slug" drill, in case you find yourself needing to make a longer shot.  The easiest (not the fastest, but the most foolproof) is: Rack slide, insert slug into tube rack slide.  It's not the quickest, and you put two rounds of buckshot on the deck, but it always works, no matter how full your tube or what kind of gun you have.   Well, That's DCloudy's Shotgun 101.  If you have any other questions, just ask.  We'll be happy to help.  :up:

Around $400, the Airweight J-frame reigns supreme.   For a little more cash, however, the SIG P938 has become my new J-frame.  :up:

Buy an AR15.  Seriously.  It's a much, much better choice for defensive purposes, and you can get an incredible deal on one these days.

Great match... I wish I would have felt a little better.  I'm fighting off some kind of crazy sinus/ear infection... had a 101.9 degree temp when I got home.  :yuck:   One silly shotgun target hiding behind a blue barrel cost me a stage win, a division win, and five places overall.  Oh well.  :rofl:   See you guys next month!   DanO

I figure he'll just let it pass without signature.   I don't like it, but to be honest in an election year it's the smart play for him.  :yuck: