macville

The problem is, there are still plenty of Dems who don't support heavy gun control. I would say enough that any such law would get voted down pretty quickly. Matthew

This is why we need to push and push hard for a clean and simple carry bill--anywhere alcohol is served. I thought of a good point that I am going to push with all the people who voted for the veto. Simply put, it's been illegal to drink while carrying since day one of the handgun permits. If someone with an HCP was going to drink and carry, AKA go into a place that serves alcohol and drink illegally wouldn't they have already done so before it was legal for the few months to carry in a few places? What I am saying is that there's never been a report, that I can find, that had someone with an HCP caught out drinking OR even simply being in a place that served alcohol when it wasn't legal. Matthew

Okay, then that is a good thing. If it's not illegal (such as not having the ammo near the gun), then it shouldn't be a defense it should simply be legal! Matthew

You can quote me on this. I believe that liberals are hurting tourism in our state. Now, I don't have any proof of my statement, but I'm a conservative and if liberals don't have to have any proof for their statements, then neither do I. Matthew

Umm..how is this really any different than what's currently on the books? Seems like just slightly different wording but would still mean ammo would need to be in a different compartment in the car... Matthew

Uhhh, maybe you should read TN Code 39-17-1314 as it has to do with local regulation preemption (including parks) Michie's Legal Resources Matthew

Couple of things. First, this would shrink gun shows by quite a few booths. Second, HOW STUPID is this guy to introduce such a bill when the republicans are in control and there is a massive amount of pro-gun dems also in there. Did he sleep through the last session? Sorry to the people from Memphis, but I feel like TN would be FAR better of legally and financially if we could cut it from our state. Matthew

Okay, our idiot friend Voldemort is saying over at opencarry.org that places like Brentwood and Belle Meade are off-limits to carry-even with a valid HCP because "supposedly" their codes were put in place before 1986 (although, one has a date of 2005 on it, and the other is labeled as 1987.) I find it also hard to believe since Brentwood did the official opt-out of the parks, AND complained about having to research the law, that if their code was actually legal, they would have known that they would have had to done absolutely nothing. It just seems very very wrong that cities could somehow make it illegal to legally carry via a HCP on public roads and businesses. Am I missing something or is it really that messed up? Matthew PS. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here;)

Don't get your hopes up. My wife called last week and they said it was issues on 12/22 and it still isn't here yet:( Matthew

It's included. However, if Gunny's will do the printing, then what a nice place to get finger printed. Of course, if they still use the old ink method, it might be quicker to get printed at @Work as it's sent faster than you can blink to Nashville. Matthew

Love mine. Need to buy one for my wife as her permit should be here any day now, but dang, $70 hurts right now! Matthew

No, I didn't seem so sure about carrying in NC because while I've looked through their laws, I haven't done a 100% search (in case they have an obscure law that's not with the other weapons and parks carry law.) As far as what the NPS law says, I knew exactly what that said. Matthew

Jeez guys, if you had asked me earlier I could have given you the info on open carry and the actual law. I looked it up a few weeks ago and posted what I found on glocktalk. The old rules (what Bush had put into place) allowed for CC only. The new law only requires what the state you are currently in requires for carry. So VT and AK will have unfettered carry. Places like KY should have no permit OC. It's actually a pretty good law. The only thing that would be better would be if you can carry in your own state, then you can carry in any NP in the country. But alas I don't plan on going to any state I can't carry in legally anytime soon, so that doesn't bother me. Matthew

That's been a question I have been wondering since the Smokey's splits NC and many hiking trails start in TN and end up in NC. Here's my understanding of it. It goes by state law is what it's supposed to it. With the passage of the state parks carry law TN also added wording allowing carry in the NP's. However, I don't believe they NEEDED to do that since the law only tells you what you CAN'T do, not what you can do. Therefore, since the law before only said state and local parks, I firmly believe that you would have still been able to carry in the NP here in TN. I believe (don't take my word on this) that NC should be the same way. When I looked up the NC state law about carrying in parks it said it applied to state, county, and city owned parks-nothing about federally owned parks. So I believe that while you can't carry in NC state or local parks, you should be okay in the NP. I still would like to hear something from the NC AG or a lawyer who has research it. Matthew

How would the PBA have the authority to circumvent the law? If they did, the law would say that the PBA has the authority to make the rules up in their buildings...but it doesn't. I don't know why you say it isn't a misdemeanor. The text you posted seems to say that since there no punishment spelled out in the parks part of the code that it IS a misdemeanor and is it would be upto $50 fine, upto $500 for "administrative cost incident to the correction of the municipal violation" (court/lawyer costs?), AND upto 30 days in jail if they throw the book at you. So it's not at all like a speeding ticket, it's like a misdemeanor! As far as I am concerned 1 month or 12 months are both going to screw up my life pretty much the same. That's what I am saying. If we got the city to either drop the old law and not take up the new one, OR even drop the old and take up the new, we'd be in a better place because once they drop the old law they can never take it back up to fall under the '86 provision in state law. Not to mention that hopefully with gov election soon, we might get a more pro-gun mayor who either will run off all the liberals (too much to hope for) or will encourage more conservatives to run for city council. Here's my question, is there a way to spin this to put egg on the faces of the anti-gun people and clueless elected officials? To be honest, if this was brought up, all that would happen, I believe, is that Chilhowee would become off-limits and the gun shows would move to another venue. I find it very doubtful that they would bother with a provision because it would make the city council look "pro-gun" and they can't have that. So really, I see nothing but good coming out of it. Screws the city of knoxville out of money, gets more money into private business, and exposes those who don't wish to follow the laws they make. BTW, does anyone know anything about the new City Council members? Their ads at the election were so vague on how they stand politically that I have no clue if more liberals or more conservatives got elected. Matthew

Did the homework for you as all it took was 5 minutes of reading after using the search term "firearm" in Knoxville Code website. There are NO exceptions in the law. I did notice that they DO still have laws on the books that they are not supposed to (state law overrides them on it), but hey, why be bothered with cleaning up the law, right? What's the difference with the new state law and the old law on the books? Both have fines and jail time, correct? If the old Knoxville law was just a fine, I would bother, but it does so it's really no different. Here's my issue, the City Council (a majority of them) acted all high-and-mighty over the whole guns in parks issue. But yet, they can sit there and eat their cake by letting gun show happen illegally while collecting building rental fees and taxes. I don't think that's right. They stuck with the old law so they should have to follow it also. As to what good could come out of it...nothing immediately I figure. But what is there too lose? The old law is still a misdemeanor and can have jail time. Is that much different than the new law. So how would we loose anything? If the gunshows move to another venue, isn't that better as a PRIVATE business is getting the rental fee? The gunshow will find another location (what about the expo center like the rest of the gun shows!) Here's where I think something better may come in. Say we get the state law changed to must allow local parks. As our stupid (excuse me, gutless) reps and senators have shown, they have this thing about allowing laws pre 1986 to stand. They could keep that in there and Knoxville would still get screwed. So I don't really think we have anything to lose. We screw the City out of some money, show that we want to uphold the law-unlike the people who write and enforce the laws, and we MAY get park carry after all. BTW, I don't know what you are smoking, but the city of knoxville can't prohibit gun shows--thank you state law! It just amazes me that you are fine with people unknowingly (gun show buyers/dealers) committing misdemeanors and not wanting to warn them. Matthew PS. How in the HECK did wal-mart come into this conversation?

EXCEPT, that 39-17-1311 doesn't apply here because 1311 talks about pre '86 laws superseding the current law. Basically, 1311 means if there isn't a law pre '86 in place, then the current law in in effect. But since Knoxville had a law in place that they stuck with, the provision of 1311 that allow carry in parks at gunshows does not apply. See, the issue is that because how 1311 was written, City of Knoxville law overrides it and the city law says no guns period. Now, if Knoxville dropped their old law and then adopted the no parks carry part of the law, it would be legal since there is an exception for gun shows. Here's the thing. If Knoxville pre '86 law doesn't override what's in 1311, then right now it's perfectly legal to carry in City of Knoxville parks as the old law is not in effect and they never adopted the new resolution against carry. But somehow I don't believe either you actually believe that. The pre '86 law is in effect and it currently has no exceptions for gunshows that I've seen. Not trying to be a butt, just pointing out the language of the law. Matthew

Two things. First, basically you want me to ignore the fact that City of Knoxville law is being broken every time there is a gun show there? Not just a civil fine involved, but a criminal act also. Do you ignore someone breaking into your neighbor's house? Because what you've suggested is pretty much the exact same thing. Illegal is illegal. While it may not seem to help our cause (more on that later), it does show that abide by the law-even if we don't like it. I think that's important to show the uneducated here in Knoxville. Second, do you want gun lovers money going to the anti-gun City of Knoxville? Because if there's a gun show at the park, then the city is getting a cut for building rental. Did you visit restaurants which posted during the restaurant carry fiasco? Same principle here. Why support someone/something that doesn't support your right to carry arms? BTW, I am not trying to be like the idiot permit holders who were involved in the restaurant carry lawsuit. I am only suggesting this because right now if City of Knoxville Police wanted to enforce the law they could and a lot of innocent people could wind up in jail. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to play by the rules even if I don't like them and that's why I am trying to get the "rules" changed in our state for the better. Now, if you all want to start another revolution to put the Constitution back in place, I'm not saying I'm out;) Matthew

It does seems that it would fall under that because the building would be "passive" recreation. So my questions now is, how do they have gun shows at the Jacobs building? The Knoxville code doesn't say you can have a firearm if you are doing a gun show, it says no firearms PERIOD in their "parks"--no exceptions. So therefore, everyone in possession of a firearm at Chilhowee Park is breaking knoxville code and could be sent to jail for upto 30 days. That's pretty serious. I still think if you got caught carrying in an illegal, but un-posted park, you'd get off the hook if you requested a jury trial. So I am wondering if I should point this discovery to our mayor to show how dumb the city council people are in keeping the old law, but allowing gun shows at Chilhowee. Matthew

You know, we were told that city greenways were off-limits (and they were just like parks until the law went into effect), but does the city code state that greenways are off-limits? State code makes it very clear that greenways fall under the parks law, but if the local, pre '86 doesn't say "greenways", then I would say you'd have a good fight in court (not that they would bother to probably take it to court since it's only a $50 fine.) No, the Coliseum is NOT posted what-so-ever...unless you like to smoke:) The thing is, not a ton of stuff that happens there is done without alcohol. The question is, is it off-limits even if there is no alcohol being served at your event there (such as the Jimmy Duncan's family BBQ) but since they do hold a liquor license? Seems like "served" would be the key word to me. Matthew

EXCEPT here in Knoxville it WOULD be legal to carry in the Knoxville Civic Coliseum BECAUSE I believe the original ordinance that is currently in place (you know, the $50 fee (fine) for carrying in city parks) doesn't talk about the coliseum! It's in reference to parks, and since the coliseum is not a park, it wouldn't count. I actually just found a loophole in the law that's pretty plain as day. Under 39-17-1311 section d, a county can not ban handguns from recreation buildings (unless inside a park) under the PARKS law. Section d basically says they can ban legal firearms from PARKS, but it say nothing about rec buildings. However, of course they can still ban them under the posting law just like the city/county building is posted. What would disable carry (at least right now) most times at the civic coliseum is the fact that they serve alcohol at most events. I really rather carry my gun to ice bears games instead of leaving it in my car downtown at night..not to mention the walk back to the car because I am too cheap to park right next to it. Matthew

When did you get printed for your permit? Matthew

There is no county that requires reg of firearms because they can not by TN law. Even NFA items aren't "registered" with the state, they are done with the Feds. Matthew

Uhhh, I actually believe the number is over 200,000 in TN if I remember correctly. Matthew

Don't forget that simply letting your permit EXPIRE will also count as being revoked. There needs to be a stat from the state on how many permits were not renewed! I think if we found out how many were revoked for crime, it would be in the <50 range I'm guessing. Think about it...someone dies and therefore cannot renew their permit, REVOKED! Matthew