JayC

Well as one of those 'pot bellied' guys... Some times we want to learn new stuff too

This is the kinda stuff you're going to find online (From the website you linked earlier) Serious, I'm not aware of any groups other than the 'open' militias here in the state who are publicly recruiting and have a website advertising their activities... I think that's mostly because as K191145 said, if you do sooner or later an FBI/ATF informant will stop by for a visit Ask around... seek out those guys at your local range who seem to be there for something other than target shooting... or look for groups of guys going to the range together... These groups tend to be very selective in who they associate with because of the issues people have expressed in this thread... all it takes is 1 bad apple to come in and cause a major stink. bigwakes - clean out your inbox so I can send you a PM please

With a permit you may carry in a location which sells alcohol by the drink for onsite consumption or by the package for offsite consumption, unless legally posted. Been that way for offsite for years, by the drink law went into effect a little less than a year ago.

There are other more serious private groups in middle TN, doing the same thing without the silly zombie stuff... I'm not saying some of the guys in this group aren't serious, but lets face it, a large chunk isn't... and separating good advice from bad in that environment is hard to do... If you're interested in this type of activity/training, do yourself a favor and find a group who is serious and where you don't have to waste your time filtering out the non-sense of killing zombies

The type of groups you're suggesting already exists around the state, ask around you'll find in your part of the state. They're not a militia but just groups of guys who are practicing self defense and other skill sets, chatting about gear, etc... And then you have 2 or 3 publicly announced militias who have been operating out in the open for years with little publicized issues.

I'm hearing the exact opposite out of guys coming back from Afghanistan... including a couple of 5th group guys I've had the pleasure of training with in the recent past. While traditional infantry tactics may very well be ineffective against insurgent forces, there are a number of tactics that are employed on a regular basis... even more so in an urban MOUT environment. There are a TON of basic things the military currently teaches which are useful in a civilian environment... I'd much rather be clearing a building (my house) with somebody who had training, than to clear it by myself, or worse with somebody with no training. I think a lot of the 'better self defense schools' are using modified military tactics, and lessons learned from the military in designing their courses (keeping in mind that we don't have ready access to high explosives, M203's and air strikes that the military often does). But the strong side, weak side method... or the first in fast method are examples that came from the military which were modified for a more LE/civilian environment. You're right, teaching directly out of the Army field manual on platoon sized infantry tactics is a waste of time, but there are military tactics which can either me used directly or slightly modified... which work very well.

Every 2 years and it still must be done that way now... It's a Constitutional requirement. That's how bad out founding fathers did not want a standing army for the country.

It just seems to me like a law that a> we don't need, and b> can be used to cast a wide net... Exactly how much 'espousing' does it take to violate that law? Is a off colored joke in an FBI transcript enough? I've read up on a number of 'militia' cases over the years, and government informants acting as agent provocateurs seems to be a common theme among virtually all the cases. Obviously it's pretty safe since there are 2 or 3 public militias operating inside the state today... and a number of 'private' one's operating around the state if you know where to look, and none seem to be having any problems with law enforcement today. (or at least no published reports of problems).

Well, the real question is why do we need that law to begin with... it's already a crime to commit civil disorder... I'm pretty sure it's a crime to have a conspiracy to commit civil disorder... So we do we need a seperate felony for training? BTW TN isn't the only state with such anti-militia laws... a majority of states have similar laws on the books.

There are a number of 'militias' operating in TN currently, and one even has a "legislative" liaisons who meets with TN law makers on a regular basis. They seem to be operating out in the open with out any problems currently... The key would be to create a self defense club... or tactical shooting club... and teach things along those lines... While the training might cover virtually all the same topics and methods... it would probably be safer from a political stand point.

One of the lawyers like Mike should answer that question... but it's my understanding that the wording of this law could be open to a lot of interpretation on the part of a local DA. As I said, I think you can form a militia legally, but you'd have to be VERY careful about how you worded activities such as training events to stay well clear of this law... For example a "Small Unit Military Tactics" training course might be an issue under this law... but a similar course which is called "Small Group Self Defense" training, would clearly be an exception under 314. Again, I only pointed the law out to keep an eye on if you're doing such activities.

Since I'm sure somebody is going to ask: TCA 39-17-314 is the law you want to read... I'll quote the highlights below: 314c (ouch): 314d: Here is a link to the entire law: Michie's Legal Resources Also, you'd want to watch out for this federal law: There are a whole bunch of exceptions to that law... but there is one case of a person during world war 2 being charged and convicted under the law for just wearing 'similar' coveralls to the one's worn by the US Navy (he was caught trying to sneak on a US base)... So *some* people believe wearing any military issued camo is a violation under this law... personally I think it's the wearing of rank, skill patches, and name tapes that would get you in hot water. Also here is the section that covers the militia under TN law: Michie's Legal Resources Just in case you want to read it.

There is a law that prohibits 'paramilitary' training with and entire list of exceptions.... My guess is that would be the law you'd have to be very careful around... In theory under the state constitution and state law, in TN line officers are voted on by the members of the militia unit, and staff officers are appointed by the Government... it would seem you could form a militia unit and vote on officers... But again the paramilitary training law would be issue you'd have to keep a really close eye on, to make sure you didn't violate it by mistake.

The solution is to get long gun carry covered by the HCP, and then forget about all this silliness.

I'm just curious how one can argue that a PLR-16 is design, made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder? Can you post the case number so those of us interested in in reading the full record can go pull it up?

You know all it takes is the County Sheriff and the local DA to agree they will not charge otherwise law abiding citizens with carrying without a permit, to cause a defacto change in what they view as an unconstitutional law. Frankly, if the Sheriff announced he would not arrest otherwise law abiding citizens, and if they were charged would testify on their behalf that the law is unconstitutional... No DA in their right mind would bother charging anybody... Sheriff's have the power to put a stop to unconstitutional laws.... that is why every CLEO in TN *should* be an elected position. Something I've been pestering my State Senator about for 2 years now.

Thanks, I'd like to know more details.

How far along is the case? Are there any filings for us laypersons to read yet to get some insight into how a DA thinks a draco isn't a handgun?

I'd recommend getting a couple of extra copies of the HCP for incidents such as this... I'm never without one now

Mike, What is your personal opinion on devices which aid in aiming? Such as Crimson Trace lasers?

Really? Because that's not my understanding of case law on freedom of assembly, can you point to a case where SCOTUS allowed significant restrictions on the freedom to assemble? You've got Cox v New Hampshire (1941) which allows some reasonable regulation that basically says you can assemble, but can't prohibit the free flow of others... You'll note it doesn't stop anybody from assembling just allows rules to prevent protesters from blocking access to roads and sidewalks by the protesters. Then you have Adderley v Florida (1966) which SCOTUS ruled certain areas can be marked off limits such as the inside the secure areas of a jail or prison. But since the 1980's SCOTUS has required that such regulations be narrowly tailored... much much much more narrowly tailored than any firearm law here in TN. So, no I don't agree... please cite specific court cases to prove your point. But, lets not forget SCOTUS gets it wrong a lot... and just because they say something is constitutional doesn't make it so... they often decades later come back and have to 'correct' their mistakes... These rulings are from the same people who gave us the Dred Scott verdict that claimed people could be property... and claim that growing wheat in your backyard which you use to make bread, and eat such bread is an act of Interstate Commerce which the Federal government can regulate. The Constitution isn't hard to understand, people know what words like "shall not be infringed" really means, at some point we're going to reach a breaking point, and some folks are going to say enough is enough we want our god given rights back. Even if TN's permit system doesn't run afoul of the federal Constitution is for sure runs afoul of the state Constitution... which limits the state legislature to only regulate the wearing of firearms to prevent crime. Clearly certain provisions of the TN HCP process have no bearing on preventing crime.

The US Constitution clearly allows the removal of rights for felons who are convicted by a jury of their peers. People should really read the Constitution once and awhile. 5th Amendment: That right there allows the Federal government to bar convicted felons from possessing firearms (exercising their 2nd Amendment Rights)... It also allows convicted felons to be locked up in jail. But, I'm not a felon, I've not been convicted by a jury of my peers of a serious or infamous crime... And therefore restrictions on my rights are not supported by the Constitution.

I'm curious, does AL law require you to get a resident permit like TN law does? If not, then why not convert the TN permit to a non-resident permit and just keep it instead of getting an AL permit which might place restrictions on carry?

Dave, I'm fully aware of the limitations that SCOTUS has when enforcing their rulings.... I'm also fully aware of the issues we have in TN with unconstitutional legislation. The post was a reference to Little Rock Nine where SCOTUS ruled and the President sent troops in to enforce the ruling. The point was to show that IL would not go willingly into allowing carry for all law-abiding citizens and would have to be dragged kicking and screaming. Sorry clearly I should have spelled out what I thought was a clear reference. And I think there is a difference between TN and IL, on this issue we'd get rid of a lot of our carry laws if SCOTUS ruled carrying a firearm is a right under the 2nd Amendment (which it clearly is)... and I suspect we'll see if I'm right or not in the next couple of years with Palmer v DC. But, even if so ordered, IL/Chicago would stall, and attempt to legislate around the ruling, as they have in the McDonald ruling.

If IL becomes shall issue state, it will be because of a SCOTUS ruling and enforcement by federal troops