JayC

Just curious, but couldn't the defendant just go and buy the same type of handgun tomorrow and start carrying it again?

Trust me, any business person who understands the stats doesn't want to possible chase off 2% of their business... And when you factor in that most restaurants aim for the 21+ crowd (by serving drinks) and extra income crowd (people who can eat out a lot), the number goes way above 2% of their target market. On average, HCP holders have a higher average income than the rest of the population, and are all over the age of 21 Figure the number is closer to 7-10% of adults in that age and income bracket.

The military was not counted in that 800,000 number... Obama was playing a game with the military... at any point he could have chosen to pay the military but wanted to put more pressure on the Republicans to cave.

I'm sorry, I should have stated an AR-15 "style" pistol... but yes it's my understanding that it was a PLR-16 I'm not aware of a vertical fore-grip being attached... but it's been months since I read through the proceedings... my recollection is it had a hand guard on the front of the pistol which would allow somebody to hold the pistol with 2 hands... but my recollection may very well be incorrect. Which is why I suggested the poster above, contact a good gun rights lawyer before carrying to get the exact details.

It's not a simple yes or no answer... According to the ATF it's a pistol, and therefore you should be able to carry it... But there is a case currently working it's way through the Sumner County court system where a HCP permit holder was caught carrying a AR-15 pistol, and was charged under the law. IANAL, but I'd get a legal opinion from a good one before I carried one until that case is sorted out one way or another.

I don't see how TN is your legal residence if you're a non-resident alien... IANAL... but it seems to me you can't have a residence if you're not a resident alien or citizen And even if you're correct, and a out of state permit wouldn't work for you here in TN, it would work in a lot of other places all over the country legally. I'm confident if you wanted to carry finding a legal way to do so is possible

Dave, I agree completely, police officers are citizens too... no more or less than I am... I don't expect any man to bow down in my presence... but I also don't expect anybody to ask me to bow down in theirs. My issue with his post is exactly that he thinks it's fine to annoy "civilians" in the name of officer safety... Which he seems to forget he's one of those "civilians" just like the rest of us. If you can't see how that type of attitude can foster distrust... I don't know what to say. I'm not going to argue rights vs privilege, you and I see that issue completely differently, we've had a number of arguments, I doubt this one will change either of our minds. I have God given rights, whether the state of TN or the Federal government recognize those rights doesn't change the fact I have them. Permit holders out number police officers by a 3 to 1 or more. But that has little to do with my point, that his comment about annoying citizens, fosters distrust within the population as a whole not just within permit holders... again my post was aimed at his them vs us "civilians" comment, not purely his stance on disarming every permit holder he ever comes into contact with. I just took the time to point out he should be much more afraid of drowning in his bathtub than being killed by a permit holder Since I often love to request links, as you pointed out, I'll back up my statement: VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers This is clearly an anti-gun group, their current count is 297 people, most of which are pending cases, not convictions, the number maybe slightly higher than their count... once you start digging into the number of convicted persons, and whether they used a gun, and needed a carry permit to posses the gun the number drops drastically... down to just under a dozen... you're welcome to read through all the VPC BS to count for yourself. So, the odds of a police officer coming across a permit holder who is going to commit a murder with a firearm sometime in their life? About the same as them getting hit by lightning. Both about 1 in 550,000... So it's a lot more likely that an officer is going to get hit by lightning than be killed by a permit holder. As for the ND vs the above, you're right that is a total guess on my part, there are no good stats on police officer involved ND's, to be able to compared to... so you may very well be right...

The process for revoking permits is completely different in IN, from here in TN. IN (unless it's changed recently) has a distributed permit system ran by each Sheriff, while TN has a centralized system. With requirements that the courts confiscate permits when a person is charged with violent felonies and certain serious misdemeanor charges. The chances you're going to run across somebody who's been charged with a felony or class A misdemeanor is going to be rare in TN, let alone convicted. You may very well run across somebody who has had their permit suspended because of an order of protection they don't even know about, or a failure to pay child support. But, those don't strike me as harden criminals Maybe, it would be a valid excuse to disarm all non-TN residents because officers don't have the ability to even check those permits. But, I'm just curious how many times officers are coming across people who have a valid TN permit in hand, and the computer system then spits back that it is invalid (I only am aware of 1 case reported on here in the last year, which was a computer error). I'm not against disarming when there is a real concern for officer safety... I can see limited cases where officer safety is a valid concern even with permit holders... I just hear about a lot of cases where it sure doesn't seem to be a real safety issue to me.

Just curious how you would open carry then? I thought it was also illegal for non-resident aliens to purchase firearms? If it's not illegal, you should look at getting a permit from another state, since TN isn't your "residence" any state which would issue you a permit would seem to be valid here in TN.

+1

While everything said above is completely correct, there are some exceptions... For example, you are not required to have a permit in your "place of business" or on property that you own, while protecting livestock from predators, etc. So depending on what these folks do for a living, they maybe able to legally carry without a permit. But, most likely they're mis-informed.

And that comment right there is why so many people have concerns over interactions with police officers today. What many of you forget is that you're public servants and also 'civilians' just like us. You're asked to do a hard job for the public good, but not at the expense of the citizens who hire and pay your salary. You're not a member of the military, you're just another civilian who has been hired to be a public servant. The other problem with your comment about mind set is it's not fact based, HCP holders are probably the least likely group of people you encounter daily to pull a firearm and shoot you. In the last 15 years there have been 200 permit holders in the entire country who committed a violent crime and were convicted in the country, less than a dozen did so with a firearm while carrying in a place which required a permit. 8-12 convictions of permit holders for the entire country in the last 15 years... out of 6+ million citizens who have had a permit during that same period of time. That number is so small as to not even be worth worrying about... (Trust me, the numbers for your profession would look a lot worse over the same period of time) The fact is, permit holders are law abiding citizens and rarely do they use their firearm to commit crimes. The fact is it's much more likely that an officer while disarming an otherwise law abiding citizen who poses no real risk to officer safety is much more likely to hurt themselves or somebody else than they are to disarm somebody who was going to shoot them.

Here is my question... The Government identified 800,000 non-essential federal employees... If they're non-essential, why not get rid of them for good? I personally was hoping for a government shutdown to show the country there is nothing getting shutdown that we really need.

That isn't correct... Radnor Lake is a state park, not a city park, all state parks are fine to carry in.... Per state law they can not legally be posted. But, the law allowed them to leave the old signs in place. This is the same state park that a certain unnamed person performed the orange tipped ak47 pistol stunt back a couple of years ago, and was not charged with carrying.

I stand corrected.

John Lott, I'd read everything he's done on gun crime... More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He's already done all the research for you. The above book focuses on the impact of legal handgun carry and it's impact on crime.

That would be the Labor Standards Division of the Department of Labor and Workforce Development... The problem is they refuse to take complaints from 'citizens' and only from government agencies. Here is a copy of the law: http://www.state.tn.us/sos/rules/0800/0800-07-01.pdf Now here is the kicker, if you can convince somebody who works for any level of the TN government a business has hired illegal immigrants, they are required by law to report it to the Labor Standards Division, and they are required by law to investigate the complaint. So, if you can find somebody who works for the government (a city public works employee or librarian, school teacher, etc) then they are required to file the complaint, and the state government must respond by investigating the complaint. Here is a fun exercise... go down to their office and ask to see how many investigations they have done under the law in the last 3 years... I think you'll be shocked how few They have no interest in enforcing TN laws IMHO.

Uhhh.. I'm not sure about that... under state law you have to be adjudicated mentally defective... I'm not sure I simple SS hearing that says you can't work is the same thing as you're a danger to yourself or others. Can you back up this claim with some case law? Or an example here in TN?

We already have something better than that in this state... If your business hires illegals, the state can revoke your business license (ie close your business) for 1 year. Trust me, that is much worse than prep walking a CEO or owner... The problem? The state refuses to enforce the law! I know for a fact calls have been made to the state and they never send anybody out to investigate.

An official complaint should be filed with both TDOS and the local PD, about the illegal removal of the permit... Not to get anybody into trouble but to highlight they can't do that in the future.

I think Robert is talking about long term trends, more so than short term trends... In a free market (not that we have one of these anymore), if company A starts selling a product or service, and has lets say 100% profit in it... and then company B comes along and starts to offer the exact same product or service (and lets assume to keep things simple it's the same quality)... Over time, the profit margin for both companies will decline to a point where there is little left. Now that might take 10 years, but over time as a general rule the level of profit will be reduced to a small amount. Now, non-free market forces, make this system very complex... if I have a trademark, or patent on a product and company B can't compete... or if I have some government tax break that allows me to sell my product below company B's price and still make a great profit... But, generally speaking, in a true free market, the profit is beaten down to single digits over time.

The truth is grandma wasn't dieing in the streets before we had SS and Medicare, families and charities took care of the aged, and poor... So don't make it out like if we pulled the plug on SS and Medicare that we'd have thousands of homeless grandma living in the streets... We as a people would come together and take care of the vasty majority privately. I've given my solution... Reduce SS to just above the poverty line, say poverty plus 10%, or about $12,000 per year in TN, obviously allowing for inflation... Pass a constitutional amendment limiting the size of the federal governments budget to 7% of GDP, and the size of state governments to 3% their state GDPs, also include a requirement to balance the budget in that amendment. Pass a law requiring that any corporation operating within the US must be majority owned by US Citizens, and only US citizens and US companies may own land or buildings within the US. Then create a true medicare trust fund by selling off Federal government land and assets over the course of 10-15 years via public auction. That is a good start, it would take us less than 20 years to completely pay off the national debt, we'd have a long term self growing trust fund, which would help reduce the size of the Federal government in the process. Then cut off SS for all new workers, allow all current workers to choose whether to stay in the system or leave it, no matter their age. Create a true trust fund, where FICA tax, goes which can not be touched by congress, and supplement the trust fund with selling of assets similar to the Medicare trust fund.

If that is true, then we're done for... expect an increase in taxes between 25-30% to pay for the entitlements of the baby boomers... or we can go even farther into debt... We can not meet the current obligations any other way... raise taxes, or increase the debt, or some mixture of the two...

But as you've said, we can't reform the government because the baby boomers who make up nearly 50% of the voting population refuse to allow it... Trust me, if you poll my generation and the generations coming up behind me, a large majority are for cutting taxes and entitlements now.

Don't need a law, it's already legal to carry a firearm in your own vehicle if you have a HCP. So pizza delivery drivers have 2 choices, 1. carry and risk being firedd if found out. 2. Don't work in a high risk job where they prevent you from carrying in the first place. We don't need another law to solve this 'problem'.