JayC

OShoot, Using your logic, then place of business only covers the owner, how does his wife, or his children carry legally? Do they get charged with a crime for the pistol or shotgun under the counter? Of course not. The premise clause covers any business you own already since that would cover all land you own, lease or rent. So why add place of business? As for the argument about employers, many don't post... I suspect that the reason they don't is because they can fire you if they find you carrying a firearm. The same way they keep most employees from carrying with their HCP today. Why do they need a criminal charge on top of that? As for my memories as a teenager, I remember the first 'gun' store I went into after moving down here and being amazed that everybody behind the counter was carrying a pistol on their hip It struck a cord with me. Just curious how do you own a business, but don't rent or control the place of business?

Place of business seems to not be defined in tca 39-17-13xx, so I believe it would fall back on the common legal usage of the word: I think that covers the vast majority of places. It's clear that the legislature intended for 'place of business' to be something other than a persons residence or their premises, since premises would cover all property owned, leased or rented by a person, it's clear that place of the business was something more than the other two cover. I doubt there is an AG's opinion on the matter because it's such a duhh kinda thing, of course you have the right to possess a firearm at your business for your protection, just like you have a right to posses one in your home. If you're aware of case law that reduces the 'place of business' defense in TCA 39-17-1307, I'm all ears. Now for my practical example... ever go into a gun store before the HCP law was passed? Notice how all the employees were carrying firearms? How exactly was that legal? They all couldn't be owners, or be reserve deputies.

1359 (posting law) only covers HCP holders nobody else. The owner and his employees can still carry under the place of business exception. They don't even need a permit to carry there, and could carry there before the laws were changed concerning bars and liquor stores.

All state parks are carry allowed, they can't not be prohibited by the parks carry law. You're seeing old signs, they are not enforceable for persons with a HCP.

A locked safe, would require a warrant unless you allowed the search... All the exceptions (violations) to the 4th amendment require some form on officer safety or exigent circumstance to perform the search without a warrant... A locked safe wouldn't be covered under any of these cases and they would be required to get a warrant or risk anything they found getting tossed.

It's a bit more complicated than that... for decades the FCC has been collecting a tax on business telephone lines and giving that money to LEC (telephone companies) to provide reduce rate home phone service in rural areas. The 'fund' is routinely abused by those same telephone companies trying to come up with very interesting ways to raid the fund for their own person gain. Like building out 1,000 pairs of wires to a small country road with only 5 homes on the entire road. The FCC now is doing away with the telephone fund, and redirecting that money to an Internet 'fund' to be raided by the telco's in the name or rural or poor customers getting discounted Internet and infrastructure grants. This is very similar to the wildly unsuccessful tax/fund that schools use to get Internet service. An average business can get 20mbits of bandwidth for $200-300ish a month in this state... Go pull the fees being charged to many schools for 1.5mbit or 5mbits of service and watch your jaw drop... More corporate welfare to government backed monopolies.

I'm just disagreeing... the government thinks that firearms ownership is a privilege that they can grant you... Which is pretty much like DC. The TN legislature doesn't view firearm ownership or possession to be a right in anyway shape or form.

I'm sorry but you've mistaken TN for someplace like AZ, or Alaska... Our gun laws are much closer to those of Washington DC than those of truly free states... You can't even legally own a switchblade in this state, we have to pay outrageous and unconstitutional fees for the privilege of purchasing a firearm, and even higher taxes on ammo. Don't even get me started on the HCP process here... The nearly entirely bogus corporate welfare of 'training' classes required by the state, the fee that is so high the state can't even create ways to spend all the money legally, finger print checks, and one of the few states where a sign posted on a door can make an otherwise law abiding citizen go to jail. You're right we're not as bad off as Washington DC, but don't make it out like we're anywhere near done getting rid of stupid laws which only serve to better criminals, politicians, and corporate welfare gun training courses.

I think the most likely issue would be loosing your permit for life using the rule that got 'the one who shall not be named'.

Lets assume for a second you're not carrying a firearm... If I'm doing nothing wrong it's none of the officers business who I am and to stop and question me, so I wouldn't show my ID. Carrying changes all of that because you're required to display the permit on request, and if you don't you risk loosing your permit for life even if you're not violating the law.

No disagreement from me, the ammo tax, TICS fee, and a number of other laws clearly violate the state constitution, but why be limited by that silly bit of paper? We deserve the government we elect, and having an anti-gun RINO is the governors house, and an anti-gun RINO as the speaker of the house results in us getting no more pro-gun bills through the legislature. How come we can pass major bills in 2008 and 2009, but can't pass anything in 2011? Beth Harwell is the only logical answer.

The bold part of the statement above in incorrect, there is no carry on any campus period. The law makes no exception for privately owned schools, all carry/possession is criminal except for exceptions and defenses documented under the law.

I'm sorry but the law seems to be very clear, any property owned by a university is off limits to firearms, with two minor exceptions. While your local campus police force may not attempt to enforce such a law, you're still putting yourself in felony territory by have a firearm on ANY property owned by a University, public or private. This outdated law doesn't protect anybody, and we should continue to pressure our legislators to make common sense reforms to such a poorly worded law.

Yes it would be illegal for a person who is living in a house/apartment owned or leased by a school to posses a firearm in that house. Or if they were using it for official purposes... I don't think incidental phone calls or grading papers would count, but how poorly this law is worded, it might. While many others on this forum disagree, the way that subsection of the law is written one could make the argument that a McDonald's being used during a field trip becomes a no carry zone, or a state park if it's being used for a field trip. And according to our "wonderful" AG even if they don't post you're still breaking the law Again, call your local legislator and bug them about fixing this outdated law. I'd also like to point out that the possession part of this law is a violation of the state Constitution which limits the legislature to regulating the WEARING of weapons.

It's a requirement that they notify the public before doing checkpoints or anything found at the checkpoints can be thrown out. Also, they must design the checkpoint to allow people to opportunity to avoid the checkpoint.

Short answer, it's illegal... The current state law regarding ownership is a complete mess, call your local legislator and bug them about it.

I guess I don't understand the desire to go to the mall... Nothing there I can't order for less money online.

Rights given by the Government are privileges which they can take away... Rights which comes from your humanity can never be taken away, only violated by the government.

Wow, lets see how bad this idea is... First we do have a God given right to travel freely. Second, driving is a mode of travel, and we've all been tricked into giving them 'Government' the ability to treat it as some privilege instead of the right it was treated as for hundreds of years. Third, if mass transit makes sense then a private business should do it, not have our tax dollars go to waste funding it. We own the roads, we are the sovereigns of this state. And how exactly are our driving laws way too lenient? Any simpleton can be taught how to drive, the VAST majority of the people on this forum received little or no professional training when learning how to drive a car, and probably spent less than 10 minutes in a vehicle with a state examiner when getting their license. Yet we drive everyday without killing anybody, I don't see how unsafe the current system is. Finally, I was born a free man, my own sovereign, with free will from my creator. I have the God given right to do what ever when ever I want as long as I do not cause physical damage to you, our family, or your property, and do not steal or commit fraud against you. Everything else is a violation on me as a free human. BTW, this was the vision our 3rd President saw for this country, not what we have today.

Umm the 4th Amendment? The 5th? My God given right to travel between places without being stopped and ask for permission? So if I get on the roads and start driving a horse drawn carriage and they stop me at a roadblock it's a violation (since they had carriages back then) but not because I'm driving a new bit of technology? The founding fathers were aware of the issues with drinking, and performing other tasks, such as driving a carriage through town and playing with firearms. The problems haven't really changed all that much in 230 years, only our inability to deal with the fact that humans are fragile and get killed, and that we should bring the party responsible to justice. This entire drunk driving business has gotten way out of hand (and no I don't drink at all): http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/07/woman_in_wheelchair_charged_wi.html They're charging a woman with DUI for driving around in a wheelchair in a MOTOR home park on private property. Now exactly how is she going to kill anybody in a 4 mph wheel chair? A real 'risk' to humanity right there. We live in a police state, and it doesn't make us any safer, it makes us less safe, our founding fathers knew that.

That appears to have already happened, and they didn't bother to warn us...

Then sit outside the bars at 3am and take care of the problem It's not like the cops don't know where the drunks are starting out from 95% of the time. And no offense but you're family members life isn't as important to me as my God given rights not to be stopped and asked questions on the side of the road without any probably cause that I've committed a crime.

Well in the case of the vehicle, I'm speaking about the HCP long gun exception, not the place of business exception.

Good luck forcing somebody to open up a locked safe in a 'inspection' under TN landlord law... There are strict limits on what you can inspect and a locked filing cabinet/safe isn't on the list normally.

That is the way it should work... but there are limits placed on you as a landlord at both the state and federal level. You can't refuse to rent to a muslim, or kick somebody out because they're a muslim. The question or whether the right to own a certain bit or property is not something that can be given away in a rental agreement is still up in the air in TN (as it relates to firearms and the 2nd Amendment)... But don't kid yourself, you're not free to do what you want with your property as a landlord.