JayC

What are they going to do really? They can't legally stop you from carrying in national parks anymore... only in buildings.

TSA: Traveling with Special Items Follow that guideline and you'll be fine. Be careful where you fly into and out of and local handgun laws in those cities (NYC for example). Otherwise it's a pretty easy process.

Keep in mind the superintendent didn't forget he had a firearm on... he intended to go armed. Big difference... One in theory is a misdemeanor the other a felony. Both are completely useless and stupid laws.

Mike, What do you think the chances are the DA would have pressed charges if a parent with a HCP had been the one seen instead of the Superintendent? I can't speak for others... but my opinion is it's a stupid law, and if the 'political' class had to suffer under the same stupid laws as the rest of us... They might stop passing stupid laws, and start getting rid of stupid laws. But since there is a different set of rules for public servants, they don't feel the same pain as the rest of us. Had the DA said, this is a stupid law, and I'm not going to charge an otherwise law abiding citizens in my county for this behavior.... we'd all be trying to talk this DA into running for higher office. But, this guy clearly IMHO broke the law, and the DA didn't charge him because of how politically connected he was... not over some objection to how stupid our carry laws are. I'll point out this DA doesn't have the best track record... he's happy to take private property (via asset seizure - don't even get me started on that) and use it for his own personal benefit... So this DA is both dirty and happy to give a pass to other politically connected people... You're right I don't see any problem with this DA and his logic at all

Just need to pass a law that allows the use of deadly force to stop criminals stealing property... similar to some of the laws in Texas... and the problem will go away quickly. Criminals know better than start messing around in somebodies garage after dark in Texas, you're likely to end up very dead in the process.

If this was a 'decent citizen' I think we'd all agree, but in this case it's a 'political connected bureaucrat' who got off, and the 'decent citizen' who did the same thing would likely have been charged. A perfect example is the guy who had a knife pulled on him in a school parking lot, grabbed his holstered firearm, which caused the attacker to run off... but because he didn't 'clear leather' he was convicted of a felony.

Well that is a tricky situation... obviously drunk guy is probably going to be arrested for DUI, if Fallguy's interpretation of TN law is correct, an officer may threaten deadly force to arrest somebody... So it's probably legal use of force under the law. Clearly, regular citizens can't use deadly force to stop a criminal guilty of a misdemeanor under TN law, so they obviously can not threaten deadly force. Lets go with a simpler one... You pull over a car and do a felony stop, you point your firearm at somebody who has not to your knowledge committed any criminal act, and you do not intend to arrest, but you feel 'hinkie' about the stop and want to be extra careful. That would clearly violate state law. Likely outcome? nothing... The problem is DAs aren't going to bring charges, isn't ever going to happen... but it is an unlawful act.

Dave, I'm not disagreeing that the charge is aggravated assault... The point I'm making is that unless authorized under state law the threat of deadly force is unlawful for both citizens and police officers.

Well if you're right, but is a VERY limiting... they have to shooting at somebody who is being arrested for a serious felony... or who they are shooting at threatens serious bodily harm ot death to the officer or a 3rd person. 2. clearly would be a justified shooting... so threatening in those cases would be clearly justified... 1. a little less so... but at least you can wrap your head around trying to arrest a serious felon, and threatening deadly force. Neither of these have any impact on threatening deadly force against a person you're not going to arrest. And your right, I think a lot of officers forget they're allowing given powers as defined by law, not by department procedure.

I'm sorry but that isn't correct... If I pull a firearm, point it at you, and threaten to shoot you if you don't stop... that is not assault (well it probably is assault, but it's not just assault), that is a threat of deadly force. Now, I agree upholstering a firearm and holding it at low ready isn't a threat of deadly force... but it shouldn't be the threat of deadly force whether a HCP holder does it, or a police officer. If is considered a threat if a HCP holder does it, it's still a threat of deadly force... even reading the TN statue Fallguy has noted in the best light possible, unless you're arresting somebody an officer can't threaten deadly force legally in TN. So, if I'm wrong, what exactly is a threat of deadly force? Because clearly unless allowed under the law we can't threaten deadly force, and neither can police officers...

We'll have to get one of the lawyers in on this one But, the way I read that, a says XXXX and b further limits a. but I could very well be wrong... Either way, since they didn't attempt arrest Estep not on point for this discussion.

TN and every state I'm aware of has a civil rights statue on the books... so they could be charged at the state or federal level. Which is worse because 2 idiots had to choose not to file charges instead of just a single idiot.

Time to call your local legislator and request that TN pass a law prohibiting local police departments and the state police from working with the TSA unless there is a known threat of terrorism in TN.

I agree, but the comment from the DA in the article leads me to believe they're hanging the 'didn't break the law' on some form of security responsibility. How you get from reality to there is a very good question indeed... probably why I wouldn't make a good lawyer, the law is very clear, any idiot can tell only 'special' people can carry at schools... But, this goes to show that we don't need the no school carry law on the books anymore. Somebody with nothing more than a carry permit carried and nobody is dead, so therefore it should be safe for all of us to carry there... even at college if we're students.

Fallguy, sorry but show us the law that states that. Because state law is very clear, you may only threaten deadly force when you can use deadly force. While police officers have a couple of addition situations they can use deadly force from regular citizens, it doesn't change the fact that they're still limited to only using or threatening deadly force as authorized under state law. If a police officer threatens deadly force and is not able to use deadly force, that would be an assault by the police officer.

I can tell you from reading between the lines... His job responsibilities include the security of the schools and the students, and they used the private security loop hole... I know that requires a 15 feet one legged jump to get from reality to there, but my bet that is the 'working legal theory' on the matter.

If they really wanted to protect, they'd let any law abiding citizen to carry anywhere they wanted, with the exception of secured areas jails/prisons, and maybe courtrooms. This is not case law, no judge ruled on this... So it won't help anybody else. This is a perfect example of the corruption and favoritism in our current legal system.

I'm curious why the local DA did charge the officers involved, clearly the violated the civil rights of these 5 under the color of law. How many of these officers even lost their jobs? Oh wait, none.

Getting the names is simple enough... Using the same 'sunshine' law go in and request to view all email sent the day of and the day after the story broke in the paper... They can't charge you, and I'll bet a nickle somebody on the force sent an email talking about these 2 officers by name.

You do, except with certain kinds of tags... and I've done it... we've had a vehicle parked on one of our lots before for a long period of time, and needed to get in touch with the owner... trip down to that counties clerk, and less than a dollar in copying costs and I had all of their information.

I'm pretty sure tag information is a public record... just have to go down and pay the fee to get access to it.

Just curious Dave, ever search a vehicle without the owners consent and find nothing?

Fallguy, re-read that provision again... the law doesn't say you must allow the officer to disarm you... it says an officer can disarm you. A Permit holder has no duty in helping the officer disarm you for officer safety... let alone volunteer the location of a firearm (or if a firearm is anywhere to be located)... Now if you did something to actively prevent the officer from disarming you, that might be a violation.... but it's like going limp while being arrested, you can't be charged with resisting arrest unless you take an action to actively resist.

Contact the local republican party in your county and suggest they help residents in your county's nursing homes with help getting updated ID cards... What did we do before the government? Oh yeah neighbors helped neighbors. Trust me, they'll come and make sure everybody in that nursing home can vote, and if they need to get to a poll on election day will make sure they have a safe comfortable ride, and a warm cup of coco to drink on the ride.

Except, there is a law that requires you to submit to the test or automatically loose your license... there is no such law when it comes to answering questions and your HCP.