JayC

The problem with the NRA is a simple one... They tend to negotiate our rights away, instead of taking a hard line against any new gun laws, and push for repealing gun laws on the books. I'm a double lifetime member, my grandfather bought me a lifetime membership as a baby, and I purchased another life time membership as an adult. But lets look at some greatest hits: 1. They helped craft the FOPA of 1984 which included the Hughes Amendment, when offered a veto they turned the veto down. They promised to remove the Hughes Amendment in following years, and have made no attempts to. 2. The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, the helped craft the language of that law, instead of fighting it tooth and nail they compromised. 3. Heller v Washington DC, early on in the process the NRA tried to get the lawsuit dismissed because they didn't feel it was the 'right time' to challenge the no ownership laws in DC. 4. After Sandy Hook the NRA started to work with Senators on a new Assault Weapons Ban, only after this was leaked by Gun Owners of America did they have a 'change' of heart and stand firm against any new firearms legislation. 5. After the terrorist shootings in CA last year, the NRA approved language for a bill which would have allowed the justice department to ban a person on the no fly list from purchasing a gun. There are 400,000+ people on the no fly list. Including Ted Kennedy, Steve Hayes (Fox New contributor). It took Steve Hayes 14 months to get himself off that list, and he's a well connected nationally know journalist. Those are just some of the 'hits' on the NRA. Every time they call seeking a donation, I send money to Gun Owners of America, because they don't mess around and compromise.

http://www.opencarry.org/maps/map-open-carry-of-a-properly-holstered-loaded-handgun/ There are some restrictions in place, but even with the permit system we still have restrictions in place in TN.

Then we keep the permit system for those who want to carry nationally, and allow unlicensed carry for those who don't. Problem solved.

Where in the TN state constitution did we cede power to regulate travel or access to the roadways to the state government? One could make an argument that freedom of travel is a God given right, and the state has no real business restricting it either.

30 states allow for unlicensed carry, none of those states require training to carry. So, most states don't require a permit, and most don't require training. TN is in the minority compared to other states.

You make a very valid argument that we should also do away with drivers licenses as well Or just take the test online and receive you drivers license in the mail after paying $10. It's nothing but make work for government employees, and does little to protect society.

I'll take you up on that challenge, and it's a very simple to show that by requiring people to go through a permit class that is largely a complete waste of time, it harms society more than not having the permit system at all. What do I mean by the permit system largely being a complete waste of time, you run permit classes, what is your failure rate? State wide it's well under 1%, my guess is that virtually everybody passes your HCP classes, you can probably talk about a couple of examples where somebody failed, but it's rare. So clearly the permit system doesn't prevent a nearly blind idiot from passing, so what does it do? It acts as a barrier to keep otherwise law abiding citizens from getting a permit, so lets talk about some examples... The poor or lower income middle class. The permit system is expensive and very time consuming, you have to take 1 day from work, pay for the class, and pay for ammo, lets say that costs somebody at least $175 total (including lost income). Then they have to go apply for the permit, taking half a day off of work at some locations, $150. Finally, they have to go do the fingerprints, which takes another 2 hours, ~$20 - BTW ever wonder how many people get denied because of their fingerprints, 0 in the 20 years we've had the permitting system. Total cost around $350. Now not only do you have a cost barrier, you have a time barrier, and a waiting period of 30-90 days. So if you're a female with a stalker, or a businessman who was just threatened, or an abused spouse, you have to wait at least a month after going through all of that mess to carry a gun. At the end of the day, the HCP process costs lives of otherwise law abiding citizens, who don't have the time or money to jump through hoops to get the permit, or have a limited but immediate need to carry and the permitting process takes to long. That costs society lives, a lot more lives than the current HCP system saves. So lets underscore a reason why we can infer all of this to be true, two years ago we allows all law abiding citizens to carry loaded firearms in their vehicle, and have seen no uptick in crime, or ND's, there is no running of blood in the streets, nothing bad has happened from passing that law, why should we believe allowing unlicensed carry would be any different. Every time we've talked about removing stupid restrictions on the current system people including people inside the '2nd amendment' community say bad things will happen, yet they never do. Again, EVERY state that touches TN allows unlicensed carry except for GA, they don't seem to be having the problems you describe, why should we believe TN would be any different? And if we do need a permit system we should streamline the process, the shooting part of the test is a complete waste of time, the fingerprints in 20 years have never been used deny a permit, get rid of both of them. Have the state setup a website that shows the videos follow by a simple true/false test, pay by credit card $55 for the permit, and you get it in the mail within 2 weeks. You drastically remove the barriers of obtaining a permit, while providing all of the information that you need to legally carry in TN. I wouldn't support it because it's just a make work project for TDOS, but it would be 1000x better than the system we have today. And honestly I don't think we should do away with the gold standard permit system we have today, because it allows us to carry in other states.

Many of us aren't big fans of the Negotiating Rights Away... They tend to support stupid legislation that is designed to line the pockets of instructors and ranges, instead of removing unconstitutional laws altogether. Training is great, I think more people should get more firearms training, but I don't think the government should make it a requirement under any circumstance. The data just doesn't back up your argument, states that have passed CC haven't seen a rising in crime, a rise in ND's, nor a rise in children related firearms deaths. You do realize that every state that touches TN except for 1 (GA) allows every law abiding citizen to carry a firearm without a permit, with no training required what so ever, and blood isn't running in the streets? I know I'm giving you a hard time about coming from NY state, and I realize that lots of areas of NY state are rural and comparability more conservative that NYC, but I think you'll find with few exceptions that a republican in NY is a very liberal democrat here in TN. I know you can't help yourself, you've spent decades behind enemy lines, but freedom means something down here, and many of us think government at it's best is a necessary evil, and we're far from 'best' even here in TN.

We already have that law don't we?

Again more liberal thinking, the saving of 1 life, nor 10,000 lives is a valid reason to infringe on my God given rights. Just because it *might* save a life somewhere down the line does not justify the infringement. And here is a hint, those druggie's and low life's already have guns, we see that every week in the arrest stats here in TN, all the HCP system is doing is preventing hard working low to medium income people from carrying a firearm to protect themselves. BTW, we just recently added unlicensed carry in your car, there has been no uptick in crime, or homicides in this state, extending this right to every otherwise law abiding citizen poses virtually no risk to the public.

Of course you do, bringing you liberal big government dribble from NY down here Why not have an 8 hour safety course when buying a 5 gallon bucket? More children drown in a 5 gallon bucket every year than children (under the age of 12) die from gun violence from themselves or the hands of another child. I believe firearms training is a good thing, but the government requiring it to own and/or carry a gun is a waste of time and money. Remember that police officers with all of their training are 5 times more likely than an average citizen to kill an innocent person in a self defense shooting. Many of them receiving little or no training. It's a constitutional right to bear arms, and there should be no litmus test on exercising that right.

Bad guys tossed shots at the home owner after leaving the house, clearly a justified shooting under TN law, who knows about MI law. Any reasonable person who is being shot would be in fear of death or serious bodily harm.

By law the state general fund gets $0 from HCP, and in theory if they did away with all the HCP money the only jobs lost at TDOS would be the make work jobs running the permit setup. They work really hard to 'waste' aka spend all the HCP money in creative ways... to stay within state law.

You never know... Hearing Protection Act passes or the Hughes Amendment gets repealed... you could see a massive uptick in firearms sales

Primary Beth Harwell, and the problem goes away. We don't need the seat to stay Republican either. She is the primary reason for the logjam... that and TFA pissing off all the legislators demanding laws that the Chamber is going nuts over. Remember it's Beth Harwell who refuses to allow firearms inside the State Capital, she on her own with the stroke of a pen (or the next speaker of the house) could allow us to carry within the Capital tomorrow.

The simple fact is employees are not a good target for laws like this... the parking lots bill is meant to allow customers to park and leave their firearm in their vehicle... TFA has completely over stepped trying to get HCP holders to be some type of protected class of employee, and has really slowed down the ability of the TFA to push more common sense 2nd amendment reforms here in TN. If your employer doesn't allow you to carry at your job, let alone leave one in your vehicle without a hassle, they don't care about your safety and IMHO you should look for a better employer... You make a choice to go to work there everyday and make them money, exercise your freedom to find another job with an employer that trust you to protect yourself. If you choose not to, then it's your own fault IMHO. We really need to focus on areas we can't carry where there is no other choice. School's, Colleges, Government buildings, Courthouses etc. These places should never prevent a law abiding citizen from being able to carry on the property because we're unable to exercise our freedom of association when dealing with the government. Again, we have a republican controlled legislature, a single signature on a letter could open up the State Capital to carry, why won't Speaker Haswell sign that document?!?!?

I wish that was so, but the TFA has only brought a single legal action involving the parks law, and it's still working it's way through court. And the NRA doesn't do local stuff normally. The truth is if they fire you, no matter what state law says, they'll likely get away with it.

Play dumb if caught... 'I forgot that was in there'... 'My wife borrowed my car and must have left it'... No violation of stupid HR policy.

Harwell is a simple problem to fix... just need to find somebody in her district with a last name that comes before H and primary her out... then let the democrats pickup that seat.

If possible store the firearm with the slide locked back... I've had some places ask to visually see the firearm is unloaded, having the magazine out and the slide locked back results in me not having to handle the firearm. Otherwise it's a simple process.

Remember in TN our 'castle doctrine' extends beyond the home proper, to include any covered building that is used by people, as well as the curtilage of the property itself. Without seeing pictures of the yard outside it's impossible to know if the bad guys were inside the curtliage or not. But I think all of that is largely irrelevant, any reasonable person would just exchanged gun fire with bad guys inside their home, is likely still in fear of their life at least as long as she kept shooting. And lets be honest, with that video evidence, no DA in TN would touch this case with a 100' pole, let alone take it to trial. Unless something else was going on of a criminal nature - selling drugs out of the house for example.

You really need to get out more and meet people in the 2nd Amendment community. There is no question in my mind this is a real person, who at best is playing it up for his 15 minutes of fame, but probably would say and do these exact same things if you or I were sitting down having lunch with him. The real question is who cares if he takes a rifle around with him? The same could be said about a lot of segments in the 2nd Amendment community who have almost religious beliefs about firearms, that make them very 'special'. Don't believe me, make a post about 9mm vs 45, go pop some popcorn and watch the fun

It's DeKalb County, the why is an entirely different question

Or the hypocrisy that requiring a permit only creates more crime, not prevent it

I'm all for keeping the permit system as is for folks who want a gold star permit to carry out of state. I'm just saying that constitutional carry, or a permit-light system similar to MS's makes a lot more sense. But requiring that somebody go get a permit when they can legally carry a firearm loaded in their car without one, makes no sense what so ever.