JayC

Police Officers eating dinner are no different than you or I eating dinner.  You can ask them to leave just like you would any other customer, and if they refuse they can be charged with trespass just like you or I can be.   Now, it's pretty stupid to ask a police officer to leave, just slightly less stupid than asking a permit holder to leave.      

I've got #4 - Any member who votes for a law that is deemed unconstitutional (in part of as a whole) by SCOTUS will be sentenced to 10 years in prison, will be ineligible to any office or job with any level of government for life, and will forfeit all benefits from government service.    

  No it stands above the law of the land...  above the Constitution, because it defines where we as humans get our rights, not from laws but from our humanity.   It is a mission statement, it clearly defines that people have a right to be free, and if a government violates those rights, then it no longer is a legitimate government...  The People are then free to overthrow that government through violence.   We see this happening time and time again, in the middle east over the last 2 or 3 years, people overthrowing the tyrants.  Was the government of Egypt so much more oppressive than the government we live under today? 

  That is good to know that they've changed from the old life+21 year rule here...  but, if the AWB is enacted as proposed, it would seem like making a trust in a state that is pro-NFA/pro-2A and allows them to go on forever would be a worth while investment.   Or is there some flaw in that logic?   And if you don't mind me asking, what are some of the states that have no time limit?

Chip is a good guy, just don't think he can do trusts in other states - unless he is a member of the bar in those states.

Again, my concern is with a possible AWB making semi-autos NFA items...  I'd want to find a state where the NFA trust could last well after myself and my children are long and gone...  My understanding is that certain states have different laws regarding how long a trust can last.   My question is which state that would allow NFA items (obviously CA wouldn't work), would allow the trust to last the longest period of time.   I'd clearly find a good attorney in the state, but it would be helpful to figure out which states would be best to look.  

It's my understanding that trusts have a limited lifespan...  And that in certain states have different length of trusts...  So does the state you form your NFA trust in make a difference?   Normally I'd say no, but with a possible AWB that includes no more transferring of firearms, would a NFA trust that lasted 200-300 years not be the right way to go?

I'm no expert on NFA of 34 and the GCA of 68, but I'm fairly certain that selling a firearm for a profit does not meet the requirements of being in the business of selling guns. There are reported cases of the ATF doing exactly that back in the 1990's, I just got done reading a book about a couple of said cases. The ATF in the late 80's and early 90's pulled some crazy stunts, including having the head of the NFA branch instruct agents to lie under oath about the registry database on video tape. You can read the entire transcript here: http://www.gunowners.com/ip05.htm So yeah I have no hard feelings about a guy selling some rifles at a profit... nothing in my book illegal about that at all... Then again I only buy, I've never sold a gun to anybody outside my blood family.

I agree they would crush an organized open rebellion, and only a fool would join one.  But, the government isn't setup to handle small self organizing cells, and lone wolves.   And frankly, even if there was a crack down on an organized group, that in itself might be enough of a call to action...  Remember that actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco nearly tossed this country over the edge...  and a lot has happened since then.   What comes out of the other side once there is an insurgency, I don't think anybody knows the answer to that, it's what they call a singularity  and event horizon you can't see beyond...  but odds are the result won't be any better than what we have now, and may very well be worse...  that doesn't stop men from trying to overthrow tyranny. Arab spring?   And it may very well not be the gun issue that causes it to happen, even if we manage to avoid a hot rebellion over gun control, what are the chances this country survives the coming sovereign debt crisis on the near horizon?   You sir have what is commonly referred to as normalcy bias ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias )...  

  Why?  Buying a couple of guns and flipping them for more money is not being in the business of selling guns.  I'm guessing you're all for the ATF stings where they go offer a guy $200 more for a gun he just purchased and then charge him with a felony when he agrees?   And I'm betting a fair number of the people making said profit have FFL's in one form or another anyhow.

  They had 3D scanners now...  sit a part down and the computer scans it in and builds a 3d model for you...  A little bit of clean up and you're done.   They have them for CNC machines as well, you'd be shocked how well they work :)

  You're making some poor assumptions...  Who on earth would be stupid enough to get into an open rebellion and try to fight the military in it's battle space?  Have Afghanistan and Iraq not taught you anything?   First off large organized groups would be easy targets for both law enforcement and the military...  small groups or lone wolves would be impossible to track down let alone "attack" with traditional military force...  you also have to understand that our military at its best is a hammer...  which is perfect when you have lots of different sized nails out there....  it's not so great when you're swatting at gnats and flies.  If they do managed to pin down a small cell, they'll end up killing a lot of 'innocent' civilians, which in turn will feed more people into the insurgency.   Second, they won't start with targeting the military or the police, they'll start with the politicians (both federal and local), staff, federal employees, political supporters, and when that gets too hard, they'll target the family members of those folks.  You realize that only 61% of murders are solved right?  In large cities, those numbers are a lot lower, as low as 36% in Boston for example.  When you back out murders by people the victim knew (spouses, family, business partners, etc) that number drops a lot... How exactly is the military going to stop that?   One man and one kid manged to nearly shutdown the DC area for 3 weeks with a Bushmaster rifle that was ill suited for the job, and the only way they got caught?  Because they were looking for money!  And the adult, while prior military was not some special forces expert, or sniper instructor, he was a 88M (truck driver) or more commonly referred to in the military as 'target of opportunity'.    Now imagine what 100, 1,000, 10,000 'gun nuts' could do across this country?  It would be virtually impossible to stop.   Insurgencies are really hard things to stop once they start...  look at the IRA for example...  on a small island the size of Arkansas never had more than 200 insurgents...  They had no gun culture, and had to leave the country and sneak back in to get weapons training in Libya...  Using tactics that would be unacceptable in the US it took 40+ years, and they still haven't completely disarmed.   And then we have support, while you might only get 100 to 10,000 'gun nuts' going hot, how many more won't lift a finger to help the federal government?  How many will look the other way? How many will 'forget' to pay their taxes?  How many will cause a little havoc here and there? A lot.     So, you call out the military to deal with this threat?  You'd have to there isn't enough man power to protect everybody listed above without the military...  And while a large number of people who own firearms don't have issues with an AWB, a lot of people have a major issue with martial law, you sudden go from having a couple hundred insurgents to having a million or more, because martial law would be a major tipping point.   BTW, that is insurgency 101, you want the larger strong force to over react, to cause more collateral damage, and piss off the civilian population more and more...  because it ends up with your insurgency getting more and more recruits and more and more public support.

  I generally agree, but I think it would be a funny twist of events if NBC's lawyers end up funding a serious challenge to the DC AWB on grounds the law violates the constitution ;)   Just saying, it would be a bit ironic if the anti-gun nuts make the case for us ;)

  You have to remember that whats on the 4473 is separate from the national background check.  I'm pretty sure that in states that use the federal background check do not provide the make, model or serial number as part of the background check.   Another problem with the unconstitutional TICS system we have here.

Here is the link:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv9ZoiG1Cyw

DoD has PLENTY of money to defend the US, it's a lack of the proper priorities...  Ask yourself why your son's unit is lacking funds for training, but we're buying truck loads of ammo to train foreign troops on our dime?

Kinda surprised he mentioned Waco, seeing as a good chunk of conservatives view the deaths of those children on the government.

  I'll let you in on a little secret, there have been no pro gun laws passed since the Republican party took over complete control of the legislature.  They don't believe in your 2nd Amendment rights unless they can use it as a wedge issue to win elections...  As soon as they are in power, no more gun bills pass.   There are pro-gun legislatures in this country, TN isn't one of them I'm sorry to say.  They still pass unconstitutional laws (both from a federal as well as a state constitutional level), and refuse to view the right to own and carry a firearm as anything more than a privledge they grant us. 

  I can scan a hard copy in, but I suspect they have it in a pdf or word format :)  Also for me, it's probably quicker to go hit them up for a public records request than try to find a local instructor that has a hard copy (unless somebody here in Nashville has a current copy they wouldn't mind donating so it can be scanned and posted online).

  Sounds like it's time for a drive down to TDOS and make a public records request then ;)  Maybe I can swing down there next week...  I think that is something we want available for members of the community don't you?

  I'm sorry but your post seems to indicate you mean the State of Tennessee?  What planet are you living on where our state legislature would be considered pro-gun?   I strongly suggest you re-read some of the insane state laws we have regarding firearms, then go bug your legislator to fix those issues :)   For example, how about not making all firearm possession in the state illegal?  Or having to pay an unconstitutional fee every time you purchase a firearm in this state?

  None have been taken to SCOTUS yet either...  It's like saying in 2004 that the Washington DC handgun ban hadn't been found unconstitutional, because in 30 years nobody has tried.   Truth is the vast majority of federal and state firearm laws have not been challenged up until a few years ago...  Miller was the only case taken to SCOTUS, and even with no defense showing up, it seemed to leave a large loophole in the NFA.   It's taken us 40+ years for your generation to get us into this mess, it's going to take decades to get all of these unconstitutional laws challenged and overturned.

  2/3rd's of the House and Senate, plus 3/4th of the states.  All it takes is 13 states to say so, and the Amendment doesn't pass, I suspect 13 state legislatures who not agree to any changes in the 2nd amendment.

Little issue here, when our founding fathers spoke of 3 branches of government, they meant the Executive (President), Senate (States), and House (People).   Judaical was wholly controlled by the other 3 branches, and other than SCOTUS can be removed at anytime for any reason by act of law.       

  I didn't think TN law required a certain length of range?  Or documented the number of rounds at a certain distance.