JayC

I think that would be letting him off way too easy...  I think getting turned out by his cellmate Bubba for the rest of his life is a much more deserving punishment.   If you or I made a citizens arrest and got it wrong, we'd spend years if not the rest of our lives in jail on kidnapping charges.  This Captain Donut here should have known better and abused his authority and violated the parents rights under the color of law.   He should have the book thrown at him, anything short of a prison sentence for Captain Donut is unacceptable, and the Sheriff should be ran out of town on a rail for refusing the fire this idiot.  

In all fairness I don't ascribe to the capitalism anarchy model that Chuck does ;)  While our political goals are similar in nature there are some significant differences.   I think the key issue is that I don't believe it's ever lawful or legitimate for the state/government/social contract to initiate violence (or the threat of violence) against members of that society.  So I think it's perfectly legal and legitimate for the 'government' to track down, capture and put before a jury people who murder, rape, steal, etc.  In those cases the government isn't initiating violence but answering violence.   I don't think there should be any exceptions or exigent circumstances to the limited powers described in the Constitution where the government is allowed to violate natural rights in meeting force with force.  A perfect example is that no place or container should be allowed to be searched without a written warrant signed by an independent judge, period, no exceptions.  Which is exactly what our founding fathers attempted to do in the constitution.   All other interactions with the 'government' where force is initiated are and should be illegal, and violations by the people employed by the government should be treated more harshly than those committed by criminals, because their abuses are much more serious to the fabric of the society.     The simple fact remains, I'm much more scared of my government than I am of my neighbors...  I'm much less likely to end up a sex slave to my neighbors as I am to be killed in democide by my own government, seeing as democide is the #1 non-natural killer for the last 100 years.   Now think of all the interactions we have with the government where it initiates force against it's citizens...  and if it no longer had the ability to initiate that force how any of us would be in anymore danger than we are today?  I'd argue we would be much safer.    

I'm in agreement you have to have rules to provide for safety and of the students and staff, including not blocking traffic, or fire lanes...  So somebody cutting in line driving a motorcycle...  or a parent ten cars back getting out of their vehicle and coming up to get there kid may very well pose some hypothetical safety risk to the students or staff...  but somebody walking up doesn't.   I'm with you, I don't understand why the parents are there at all... get on the bus and ride home, or if you're near enough walk home...     When I was in middle school, it was way too far to walk to school..  8 or 9 miles so it wasn't feasible to walk...  I can count the number of times my mom dropped me off at school on a single hand, and all of them were with her yelling at me for missing the bus ;)   In high school, I walked to school everyday day, it was less than half a mile, even after I got my license I found it easier to walk to school than fiddle with parking at the school ;)  If it was raining too hard, I'd drive my truck, or heaven forbid ride the bus.   I don't understand, my sister in law spends 2 hours a day waiting to drop off or pick her kids up from school, they don't live 1/3rd of a mile from the school...  I understand little kids, k thru 3rd grade maybe needing to ride the bus at that age...  but she picks up my nephew who is almost old enough to get a permit to drive.  I don't get it.   I personally won't be sending my kids to public school, as I too would ended up arrested over something stupid ;)  but if I was going to send them to school, they can ride on a school bus just fine.   Schools are run just as well as every other government program...  I know my education was absolutely piss poor, I can't even imagine how bad it is today.    

Democracy has the exact same problems you ascribe to anarchy...  The majority dominate through force those who can not or will not resist.  Our government is supposed to the servant of all people, not just the majority of people...  or today for the minority of the people...  Democracy fails just as poorly as anarchy and socialism.   Thats why our founding fathers wanted a representative republic, where both the states and federal government were limited in the powers they contain, where we had no standing army and the populace was well armed.   I'd suggest you watch this video about the dangers of us crazy libertarians :)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbNFJK1ZpVg    

So it would be safer for him to stand between cars on the side of a highway for 30-45 minutes with car whizzing by at 40 mph?    Lets be honest, some teacher seeing the 3 or 4 cars pulled up, and goes and gets the kids as a group for those cars, the kids climb into those cars, and they pull off, and the process is repeated when the next 3 or 4 cars pull up....  How many parents can there be waiting to escort their kids home?  Lets say tops half a dozen?  Probably much less....  just grab those kids when you go back for the car kids... problem solved.   In all fairness this was some long established procedure that had been going on for years and years and this guy just decided to cause trouble...  The school had changed the process about a week ago, and it resulted in an unsafe traffic situation - which the Sheriff has admitted to in the WATE news article...     And since the government is at best completely incompetent at the best of times, they took a problem, and made it worse, and when faced with a situation their procedure didn't cover instead of handling it like adults...  Deputy Donut decides to get into the middle of a faulty school procedure and gets his feelings hurt and breaks the law by unlawfully arresting this parent.   I'm not at all surprised the school administration is so clueless they couldn't figure out a solution to the problem...  I'm terrified that Deputy Donut still has a badge and a gun....  The fact the sheriff won't view the video tape and admit his deputy messed up and hasn't corrected this situation by making sure charges are dropped and the deputy is fired means the Sheriff needs to be recalled, or voted out of office next time around.  

It is, what you're describing is a corruption of blood, a punishment, restriction of rights or other infringement based solely on being born to a parent.  It's clearly prohibited under all circumstances in the Constitution, not even allowed for Treason.   I'll stay away from religion on this, because my religion and it's interpretations may contradict yours.  I respect your right to believe in what you want, up and until you try to use those beliefs to take away or restriction my natural rights 'for the good of others'.   Further your argument that by not taking action on your 18th birthday to refute any such infringements you automatically agree to all of them for the remained of your life is wrong and immoral.   At the end of the day, the government we live under is tyrannical, and immorally and unlawfully infringes on virtually all of our natural rights with no due process of law...  We've allowed this to happen over the last 3 or 4 generations...  nothing can fix it from within because the system by it's very nature and premise is corrupt and unfixable.   I leave you with this quote from Jefferson about the soon to be ratified Constitution:     Jefferson saw the only solution to the problem, the only way to prevent the death of liberty.  

The issue is he did follow protocol...  He found a loophole to their protocol, and they flipped out and tried to make stuff up on the fly...  They assumed all children would go home 1 of 3 ways, schoolbus, picked up in a car, or walk home alone.   This dad walks to school therefore skipping the parking/car situation, and is going to walk his kids home because he doesn't feel it's safe because of the traffic issues with the Sheriff admits to in the WATE article.  This situation is not documented in their policy and instead of treating him like an invisible car at the front of the line and allowing him to take his kids home right away.     They wanted the parent to sign a form allowing his children to walk home from school unsupervised...  he objected to signing the form because he doesn't want his children to walk home alone, but instead wanted his children released to him and he would take them home.   He didn't walk into the building on his own, the deputy and/or a school official asked him to go into the office.  He shows up at the normal pickup point where children were being released to their parents and asked for his children just like any other parent in a car.   The school policy is wrong here, period.  While they are allowed to have policies regarding the safety of students/staff, and fire codes....  None of those are at issue in this case...  If anything this parents method of picking up is safer and less invasive than using a car.   You're right the parent should be reasonable...  If he shows up at the same place as parents with cars and asks for his children, then using the same process as when a parents car gets to the front of the line, his children should be retrieved and allowed to leave with him...  I don't think he was asking for any special treatment, only that his kids not be held for 45 minutes to an hour after school was let out when he was there to walk them home.   The deputy IMHO violated the law, every day he walks the streets of this state with a badge and a gun his clearly poor judgement is a risk to every citizen of this state.  Not only should he already have been fired and his POST certificate revoked, he should be sitting in jail awaiting charges for his violation of the law.  And frankly if I were the DA, he'd be looking at life in prison without the possibility of parole or worse.     The school administrators who prohibited the father from having access to his children should be facing custodial interference charges or some other type of kidnapping related charge for refusing to provide access within a reasonable amount of time, school administrators are not little bureaucratic kings, they are subject to state law, and their ability to withhold access was not lawful, nor was it within reasonable guidelines of student or staff safety.   I agree, he should take his kids out of school, public schools are the root cause of so many of societies problems today, the sooner we can do away with the government interacting with our children on a daily basis the better.  

That would be a 'corruption of blood', which is specifically prohibited in Article III Section 3 of the US Constitution.   If rights are mine, and mine alone, given to me by my Creator, then my parents have no ability to give my rights away for the rest of my life.  I'm not suggesting that parents don't have the free ability to restrict my rights as a child, but they have no ability to bargain my rights away for the remainder of my natural life.   And your suggestion that giving up citizenship frees you from those infringements is a false suggestion.. you're still subject to taxes, and all laws...  so there is no way to 'opt out' of this so called 'social contract' even if you go flee to the far sides of the earth you are still subject to the federal and state laws.   The truth is in many ways we're slaves, forced to serve the whims of the majority with no respect whatsoever for our natural rights.  We're born into this servitude and there is no 'legal' way to escape.  Tennesseans today are much less free than a freed slave in 1867 let alone a freeman, isn't that sad?  

Interesting youtube video which talks about this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjlzIBSFl0E   We fall into a trap when we discuss restrictions on natural rights...  because it's an unfair trade.  My rights belong to me individually and I've not agreed to those rights being infringed...  How can men born 275+ years ago condemn me to a lifetime of servitude and slavery to the majority?  I've not signed any social contract giving away my rights...  have you?

I'm not sure that is the case, the fact the officers know you're carrying a firearm in and of itself isn't RAS to detain you.  The must have some articulable fact of illegality to stop and detain you.   This ruling also means that running guns serial numbers as SOP is probably an illegal search, since that is detaining your firearm without RAS that is likely stolen.   Officer can still come up and ask to see your HCP, or have a non-detaining conversation with you, but this ruling seems to indicate they can't detain you, or perform a terry stop based solely on the fact they know you're carrying a firearm.   

I'm not sure how I missed this one, but it seems last year one of the TN Appeals courts ruled that carrying a gun isn't illegal per say, and the fact that s a person is an armed party in and of itself is not RAS for a Terry Stop.   I know there have been lots of arguments back and forth amongst members about Terry Stops and HCP holders, but this ruling seems to prevent terry stops based solely on the fact a person is carrying a firearm.   The case is TN vs WILLIAMSON from last year - here is the document number for the ruling: No. W2011-00049-SC-R11-CD - Filed May 31, 2012   I don't see where this was overturned by the state supreme court, so it would seem this ruling is valid.  Some interesting quotes:         If I'm reading this ruling correctly, then the arguments that officers have RAS to detain anybody carrying a gun, are no longer lawful per this case law?  Very interesting read.

Who cares about the civil lawsuit...  This deputy is still at his job with a gun around kids!  Clearly he is the biggest threat to those children and their parents in that school.  There need to be charges filed against the deputy and he needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.   The DA needs to be flooded with calls to charge this deputy or face getting kicked out of office next year.  

Here is the video from the day before...  he has a disagreement with the same deputy, but doesn't act disorderly that day either:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GN-vy-ZAE4

Where are the under color of law charges against the deputy?  There is no disorderly conduct here, the guy never raised his voice, never cursed, never threatened the officer or staff with any violence, or unlawful conduct...   As I see it the deputy committed 3 kidnappings under the color of law, the two minors he would not release to his lawful guardian which is a violation of state law, and the unlawful arrest of the father.   This deputy losing his badge should be the least of his worries, he should at the very least be sitting in jail waiting on his trial, looking at spending the rest of his life in jail (or worse), the DA should throw the book at this guy.  How is this guy still walking around threatening the public with his badge and a firearm?  And the department is censoring public feedback?  The sheriff should be cleaning house, or voted out of office.

And the other shoe drops...  Which is why I like to see raw video footage not news coverage...   http://www.taosnews.com/news/article_401433ae-4d74-11e3-9e84-001a4bcf887a.html   It seems we don't have the entire story...  The mother was issued the ticket for speeding, and it was only after the officer insisted she PAY THE FINE IN CASH on the side of the road, or go before a local Judge did she drive away.  So she didn't drive away without signing the ticket, only without paying the fine on the spot.   Now, it seems the officers request is legal under NM state law...  but I can see how a TN single mom with kids in the car might think something is amiss and become scared enough to flee when you have an officer on the side of the road trying to shake you down for cash over a 16 mph speeding ticket.  I didn't know this little fact about NM law before today, if I was confronted with an officer demanding cash or he would arrest me, I too would be concerned I was dealing with a dirty cop and my life may very well be in danger.   I think this little fact shed a whole new light on her fleeing to a public location where she surrendered, and also in my mind clears the 14 year old...

Doesn't matter if the vehicle just had the mom, or was loaded with nuns...  The vehicle didn't pose a threat of death or serious bodily injury to the officers as it was driving away from them, not towards them.   Would be nice to see the complete unedited footage, instead of the clips the news played.   I don't know about charging the 14 year old...  Your mom screams for help, and you come to her aid no questions asked...  at 14 that instinct is probably natural and not criminal.   The mom looks guilty without a doubt... I would like to see the raw video, but she does seem a few sheets shy of a book in the clips the news played.   And the officer who shot at a car driving off, needs to be in jail for felony stupid.    

Why exactly do we have sovereignty immunity again?

Luke,   I think the issue with DaveS was posting incorrect information as fact about TN law, and then when shown the exactly law he continued to argue that state law prohibited something.  I had no idea on his background, and no clue on what the rules are for different types of badges on TGO.   IMHO somebody with a law enforcement badge on the forum needs to be careful posting incorrect information on TN firearm laws since many users will tend to take the badge into account when reading their opinions on the law.   I don't think anybody wishes to keep DaveS from giving his opinion...  only giving bad facts about TN law...  Lets recap...   DaveS stated:   1. TN doesn't honor permits from Maine 2. TN law requires that you be 21 to carry a pistol on an out of state permit 3. TN doesn't honor all state permits only states that honor TN permits   None of these statements are correct...  TN firearm laws are a confusing mess on their own...  the last thing we need is to have somebody spreading even more misinformation.   You're entitled to your own opinions, but you can't be entitled to your own 'facts' :)

We could only hope that somebody is charged for driving their spouses car under the 1313 law :)  The law would be changed so fast it would make your head spin to include all privately owned vehicles :)   Rumor has it there are some legislators that understand the issue with 1313 and are working to fix it next year.  

Yeah and you can still download music completely for free ;)  Napster a company failed, but they've given up stopping people from trading music even though it's illegal.    

They can make it illegal, but you can't stop somebody from downloading a 500kb file and printing it.

Because it's in the 5th Amendment, and back when they started blocking felon's rights there were very few felony's.  You had to do something bad, and you often spent your entire life in prison....  Rape, Murder, Armed robbery...  all of which were life without parole or death sentences back in the day.   I keep asking the question, if we don't trust them enough to own a firearm, why on earth are they loose on the streets with us?  

Not knowing your style of dress...  it's hard to tell you exactly what I'd do...  but I would keep the firearm on your person, not in/on a chair, desk, etc.

Try taking a bone away from a pack of starving dogs... tell me how that goes.  Look at Europe for examples of what happens when you try and make even minor cuts in social welfare programs....   They burnt down buildings in the capital over a slight increase is college tuition costs.  What do you think happens to downtown Detroit, Newark or even Lexington, KY if the just did away with disability and food stamps?   Dolomite, I contribute to candidates I believe in, I call both my state and federal legislators at least 8 to 10 times a year.  So, I'm not just 'crying' about the problems on the Internet.   But the fact is to avoid massive social unrest, where on civil society breaks down, would take us decades to fix...  and we don't have decades left on the credit card.  The truth is you're right, there is a coming showdown between the liberty elements, and the 'social justice' elements, where people will have to make a choice...  and it's likely that choice will be made at the point of a gun.   Some of us believe that natural rights, stand above all things created by man, they existed first and therefore can not be taken away by a man or group of men.  When a 'law' or legal theory is used to immoral infringe on those rights and force is used to assert control under the law of free people, that we not only have the right but the duty to fight back through whatever force is needed.   I hope I'm wrong...  I hope that we're able to find a solution that doesn't result in the attempt to crush our liberty in the name of security and social justice...  but I fear we won't before it too late and the answer that people accept when that times come is to welcome even more soul sucking government control because liberty is a dangerous and scary place.   Make no mistake, I'm not advocating violence, nor am I some 'wanna-be rambo', I realize that insurrection is about the worse thing that could happen...  but it's a lot better than being a slave with no freedom, which is what is in store for us if we're disarmed.  

Tanker, just one correction...  That $3000 computer from 1990's can be replaced with a raspberry pi for $35, and it's still well more than 100 time faster than the 1990's PC.   Otherwise I agree with you completely, these printers (and CNC machines) will continue to drop in price.  And they will become commonplace in businesses and homes over the course of the next 10-15 years...