JayC

So, poor and working class citizens should go unarmed so we can have gold star permits honored by other states?  The fact is our current "training requirements" do nothing to stop anybody with a pulse from getting a permit...   I'd be all for constitutional carry in TN, but if we're going to have a permit system it should be designed to be the least costly to the citizens who need firearms to defend themselves...  If we need a class and a written test why on earth can't it be done online for $10 instead of costing between $50 and $100 (I know there are some classes as low and $25, but most are $50 to $100)...  keep in mind it's not just the pure cost of the class, it's also the time the person has to spend in class that adds to the overall cost...  for some professionals you're talking $2000+ in real cost to get a permit under the current system.     Also, if firearms training is so important, then why do we honor out of state permits where no training what so ever is required?  And since we started allowing those no training permits to carry here where is the increase in fatal shootings from those permit holders?  I'd argue there is no evidence of any noticeable increase.   Again, I think 99% of the useful stuff people get out of a permit class today could happen from watching some online videos and taking a simple test...  I question whether any of that is really needed to begin with...    I like our gold standard permit...  it's nice when traveling...  but we could accomplish the exact same thing by creating a tiered permit system...  a basic permit that requires no range time, and just a cheap online video course and written test...  that costs no more than $100 total for the permit... and an advanced permit for people who want to travel out of state that involves the same online course, plus a "range proficiency" requirement like we have today.    

Yes, I'm a business owner, and I'm involved in a number of service industry related businesses...  some of which are here in TN...  We follow both state and federal law to the letter...  (paying lawyers and accountants to verify we're doing everything to the letter of the law) and it's expensive.   First, because of state law we have to have current I-9's on each employee...  one of their documents expires, we have to get them to fill out another I-9 with updated documents (which we have to photocopy), store all of that paper, and update the tracking software - and keep in mind we have to keep all the I-9's until 1 year after they stop working for us...  To comply with just this one state law costs upwards of $6000 a year for 5 TN businesses with roughly 200 full and part time employees.  We have to do all of this to meet 'safe harbor' requirements under a 2008 state law. My family owns another separate service industry business where my sister setup the I-9 process and I don't know the exact numbers but I believe it's similar.   Then the state passed E-Verify requirements for all new hires (this went into effect in Jan of 2013)...  That meant that every hiring manager who processed new hires had to receive mandatory E-Verify training...  which is about half a day of labor, times 3 managers plus an accountant per business... The training alone cost us about ~$3,000 in labor... and now adds a half day of training for new managers.  Also, the new process takes an extra 15 minutes over the old process so that adds another $1000 a year or so in labor costs.  That doesn't account for the computer systems we had to put in so that the managers could do e-verify online, the phone number takes a lot longer to process...  nor the training on how to use a the Internet (yes, I know shocking but true).   Then there is the anti-discrimination provisions of the current I-9 regulations... Which basically says unless the documents you're handed are obviously forged you're required to accept them without question, or you can face civil penalties from the Feds for discriminating plus you open yourself up to lawsuits...  So the entire process is a joke...  The fact is, illegals have perfectly forged copies of everything they need to get hired...  and because they're not clear forgeries as a business owner you're obligated to accept those documents.  E-Verify worked for about 2 months, people were getting rejected left and right, then all of a sudden nobody was getting rejected... my guess, the forgers figured out how to game the system and started to create E-Verify proof documents.   The entire cost for all of this 'illegal immigration theater'?  $22-25k a year for these 5 businesses...  And if I were an illegal immigrant I'd have no trouble getting passed all of this mess and getting a job.   And unless an employees walks up to me and tells me directly they're here illegally, our lawyers say it's against the law for me to fire them because I perceive they're an illegal immigrant...  not only can they file a complaint with the Feds and get me fined, they can turn around and file a lawsuit against me aswell.  This also applies to applicants for jobs...   So business owners (who pass the cost onto their customers), get to pay for all of this security theater that does nothing to stop illegal immigrants from getting a job...  So just imagine how much it costs all the businesses in TN and around the country to comply with these laws?  Yes, I'm against the current laws and don't even want to discuss new ones.  

#2 for sure violates my rights...  when did I agree as a business owner to become an agent for the federal government?  Why should I have to shoulder the cost and headache (plus possible civil and criminal liability) to do the governments job because they refuse to close the border?   And while we're talking about verifying citizenship how EXACTLY do you go about doing that?  Illegals have access to better forged documents than many citizens have from the government...  how exactly am I going to tell who is or isn't in this country legally?   The answer to that question is where civil rights start to really get violated...  and why a lot of liberty minded conservatives don't have a good answer to combat the current illegal immigrant problem.  There is no good way to combat it without further eroding the civil rights of citizens, and imposing additional costs on business owners...   #1 in theory is happening now...  but it's not enough...  you'd need to deny public education to children of illegal immigrants...  and even the hard core right wing people would balk at that idea.   I'm not sure I want #3 either...  just remember any fence/wall we build to keep people out in bad times can be used to keep people in....    The truth is there isn't a good solution to the issue at hand...  not one that would be tolerable to the American people...  It sucks, but we've dug this hole and there isn't a good way to get out.    

What does that have to do with getting a permit in TN for carrying in TN?  If you're worried about out of state carry have 2 different classes of permits, a simple one where you watch the videos online and take a test... and a second that requires training in person on top of the online class...  The first example should cost less than $10-15 to take, and the second since you only need a range instructor to certify you can successfully hit the broadside of a barn shouldn't cost more than $50 total.   And I call BS on training...  the HCP permit course shooting is so simple that virtually nobody fails it, well less than 1%...  There is no training going on in most of these permit classes, it's generous to call it anything more than organized target practice :)   8 hours of 'training' which the vast majority of permit courses are already fudging on to begin with is nothing but a big waste of time for working class folks trying to protect themselves...  at the very least the entire classroom/written test should be moved online where people can take it when they have time for a much lower cost.    

I think the better question is how do you deal with 12-20 million illegals without violating the civil rights of American citizens?  I don't like amnesty anymore than anybody else here...  but isn't preserving and protecting rights of American citizens more important than coming up with a method to get rid of millions and millions of illegal immigrants?   I've yet to hear a single idea to solve this problem that doesn't violate my rights as a business owner, or a citizen.    

Who are you going to vote for then?  No republican is suggesting we ship 12 million illegals back home...  they're ALL for amnesty is someway shape or form... Who else has a better stance on amnesty?  Cruz?  He supports a pathway to citizenship as well.  

There are over 150 special liquor licenses baked into state law for 'special licenses'...  many have no mention of closing times nor prohibiting them from serving open air.  Beale Street is just one of these special licenses listed in state law.... and don't get me started on those special licenses :)   I still suspect something is going on funny here...  I don't live in Memphis and don't care enough to visit for it to matter... but I'm willing to bet a beer that if somebody digged deep enough they'd see something not right about state and city funding of road/sidewalk repairs and Beale Street and all the state highways and routes it crosses and receives funding from...  Either the city is claiming it as a public road for funding purposes and spending the money elsewhere...  or it's paying the money to the private management company to maintain the road ans sidewalks (and when I saw pay, it might not be pay but might be reductions in fees based on costs spent fixing the road).   But maybe I'm wrong ;)    

Then where are the funds going that are allocated for that 2 block section?  My guess it's some of the 'public' funds you cite... I don't think the fact that the city pays a private company to maintain the road makes it private property.   If it's really an open air bar, let the private businesses pay for all the maintenance of the road...  otherwise it's a public road receiving state and city funds for being a road/sidewalks, and 39-17-1359 doesn't apply to public roads and sidewalks.   I've said it before, the only reason this hasn't been struck down as unlawful is because nobody has bothered to file suit against the city.   It's a bad idea to allow cities to make special roads and sidewalks and then prohibit lawful carry...   to say this type of behavior could be abused in an 'emergency' isn't too far fetched...  This is a bad loophole.      

Rand Paul will appeal to young voters and civil libertarians, while standing up for the free markets and civil rights for members of the right. As I've said before Cruz isn't eligible to be president... And libertarians will sit at home rather than vote for Christie, just like they did for Romney. Just remember if everybody who voted for McCain in 2008 had voted for Romney in 2012 he would have won by a wide margin... Why is it that so many voters stayed home and refused to vote for Romney? Because he was a RINO and didn't believe in small government.

Accept it still appears to be receiving state funds as a road. So technically is still a public road.

Permit courses are nothing but corporate welfare for ranges and instructors who provide no value add to the process what so ever. There is no indication that the course does anything to make people more safe nor to act as a legitimate barrier to prevent undesirable persons from getting a permit. It does on the other hand create a barrier for poor and working class law abiding citizens from getting a permit to protect themselves and their families.

DaveTN might be right there could be a number of people willing to go live up and register their firearms...  but there would be enough who believed an unlawful and unconstitutional (remember the state constitution only grants the state Legislature the power to regulate the wearing of firearms not the ownership) law was enough to free them from their social contract with society.   I think sometimes people think that gun rights folks are all like Voldemort, willing to go out and confront the government head on... in some type of suicidal rush...  I think that is painting a cartoon character instead of facing reality.   Me personally?  I'd close up my businesses and move to a more free state and never set foot back here again in my life.  

I think the video evidence is going to hurt them on the suppressor claim since they don't bring up the suppressor until after Voldemort had been detained for 30+ minutes, and they've already broken into the case and see it...  I agree it's going to be a toss up in court, but I don't think it's a slam dunk.   As for the fact the case could have held a magazine, I think TN v Williamson is on point...  Just because the weapon might be loaded doesn't give them RAS to detain or search...  They need specific information that the weapon is loaded, not that it could be...  Again I think the video evidence is going to hurt their claims since they constantly try to use hypothetical what if's to justify their search while they're doing it, instead of stating some specific reason for the search...  remember the officers talked a lot on camera and audio tape.   I also think it's going to hurt their case, they detained him, then let him go without searching...  and then detained him a second time and did search him...  what changed during those 15 minutes?  I think you could have a field day asking every officer involved in the first stop why they let somebody go if they thought he had a loaded rifle.  I'm also wondering what the radio traffic tapes will show, and 911 calls will show.   Again, I'm not defending his actions, I think he's an idiot just like everybody else... but TN v Williamson is good case law, and I'd hate to see it ruined just because a DA wants to cause issues for Voldemort.    

Their search would seem to violate current case law http://tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/williamsonguyopn_0.pdf on the subject....     In the above case officers found a pistol on the defendant during a frisk where they were looking for a man with gun call...  and the appeals court tossed the search out (as one of the reasons) that detaining him was not a valid terry stop because they lacked RAS for the stop and frisk...     Since state law allows one to carry a firearm without the intent to go armed legally...  the police would have required some RAS that the firearm was being used illegally...  not that it *might* be loaded, or that Voldemort *might* be a prohibited person.  It's key to note that we don't have a law that allows the police to come up and check the status of a weapon just because...  according to TN v Williamson they must have some RAS that firearm you're carrying is somehow illegal.   In this case I don't see how the detainment meets the requirements above...  He was carrying a firearm, what specifically did he do that made them believe the firearm was loaded or otherwise illegal?    If the detainment was unlawful, then everything that follows is out.   

Well, I don't think he's a danger to the public...  I've said repeatedly that the provision they used to revoke his permit should be taken from TDOS because in every case we're aware of it has been blatantly abused.   How could this set us back decades?  Current case law in TN says that just the fact you have a firearm does not give the police RAS or PC for a search, that they must have some specific to that individual firearm that it's being possessed in a criminal manner.  So I see the search being upheld as constitutional as a huge setback for firearm rights in this state.  How does this impact normal people?  Lets say you're carrying a firearm in the back of your car while driving, or sitting inside your home against the doorjam...  Does that man just because an officer sees a firearm he automatically gains RAS for a search of that firearm?  Today the answer is no, a bad ruling in this case could change that.   Second, it's likely that state law requiring one to produce federal tax records to local law enforcement violates the supremacy clause...  Since federal law says that tax records can only be given to states with a valid court order.  ATF forms are included in that law today...  If the police can demand these tax documents on the street, where else and what else can they demand that you provide?  Can they come to your home and demand you produce federal ATF paperwork because they have reason to believe you have an NFA firearm?   Again it doesn't matter what the container looked like, the fact that he was carrying a firearm under current case law is not RAS/PC to detain or search the firearm unless they can articulate something specific about that firearm that makes them believe it's illegal.   He's facing felony charges, and my guess is they'll offer to drop the charges the day he agrees not the file suit against Nashville PD...  but it's costing the taxpayers a lot of extra money to keep doing this... from a pure cost perspective, it would be much cheaper to dismiss the charges and agree to pay him $10k for his trouble and be done with it...  but because the DA wants to make an example out of somebody who likely didn't break the law, Nashville residents are going to pay $75-100k in legal costs.    

This is what happens when we keep nominating RINO's and turn our back on principals.   Hopefully we won't do it three times in a row and nominate Christy in 2016.    

I think the bigger question is, does the search get tossed or not...   You're probably right being on a form 3 is going to cause him more heartburn that if it had been in his name...  I don't see why he was even carrying the silencer to begin with...  he would have had a much better case for an civil rights violation if he had just been carrying a plain old AR.   But we're talking about Voldemort here, so who knows what goes through his silly head to dream up these types of ideas.  

1. No judge found him to be a likely danger to the public... it's was an attorney at TDOS who made that determination. 2. and even if a judge had determined he was a likely danger to the public, that isn't the same as being adjudicated metally deficent. So it wouldn't be a disqualifying event to own firearms, or to get an FFL. I'd love to get rid of the background checks altogether... they're make work (ie welfare) for government employees and do virtually nothing to protect us while drastically increasing the cost of firearms. This case is a lot bigger than Voldemort's tactical crazy fest... It could well set case law that would set back firearm rights in this state decades... The department was in the wrong the second they found the ATF paperwork on the silencer and entered into evidence... And they were probably wrong on the search without a warrant for lack of PC to search a locked container... Either way, as much as we all dislike Voldemort, we need to hope he wins this case or we're going to have some very bad case law to deal with for the next 20 years.

Only way I could see this being completely legal is if the guy has a C&R, and is only going to allow other C&R's to go in with him on the crate...   Since it's perfectly legal for one C&R to transfer to another C&R.

We have?  Name 2 republicans who were worse :)    

Even if they were aware of the incident that cost him his HCP permit, it's not a disqualifying event when applying for an FFL.   FFL's are shall issue, unless there is a specific documented disqualifying event.  ATF had no choice but to approve the FFL.   And even in this case, shall issue is a good thing, you don't want the ATF having any leeway in who gets an FFL and who doesn't.  Last thing we need is F-Troop with some subjective authority.   I'm glad to see my local DA wasting taxpayer money trying to play chicken with Voldemort...  It would have been a lot less expensive to dismiss the charges, and pay the guy $10k to go away...     Now, the case goes to court, wastes more taxpayer money and the DA is bound to loose, since the police had the SOT paperwork entered into evidence before Voldemort was arranged let alone formally charged. Voldemort turns around and then files a lawsuit with big 0's which inturn the city settles out of court for $50k or so...   Or worse the DA wins, and more of our gun rights go out the window...  lose - lose for the tax payers.  Does anybody think Voldemort is going to agree to a dismissal if we agrees not to file suit against the city?  Me either.   Now, don't take my post as somehow defending what Voldemort did...  just that the police screwed this one up when they kept him after they new it was a validly registered silencer (which was lawful to carry under TN law).  

How is some person awaiting trial on check kiting worse than the same person after they get out of jail they hire now?   Obviously you don't put violent criminals out on the street to do odd jobs, but most counties here already have a work release program where these folks are free to go to their jobs and continue working.  How is this idea any different?    

Ok, so your sheriff has cut the force, and refuses to use a legal way to allow volunteers in the community to come in and help protect the community during a budget shortfall.  Sounds like you need a new Sheriff.   The point isn't to hire 'officers' or anybody who wants to work as a police officer...  the point is to allow upstanding members of the community, business owners, etc to volunteer to help their community then go back to their day jobs... Or it allows retired officers/deputies to come back and lend a hand....   Either way that type of program would help solve the lack of on duty deputies and the inability of the department to cover non-emergency calls from the community.  Oh and the cost is virtually free to the community.    

They're feeding you BS :)     Reserve Deputy POST certification is a department run program that allows reserve deputies to 'work' for free for a department.  It is NOT the same thing as a POST certification from an academy...  they can not become full time deputies unless they attend a full-time POST certification course.   So, no the reserve deputies won't leave the instance they get certified for full time work, because they can't.  They can 'hire' volunteer deputies, and run them through a quick POST certification program and have them on the street alone doing low risk stuff in a few months...  There are limits, the reserve deputies can't work more than 20 hours a week and more than 100 hours a month...  They must have 80 hours of training with a certified training instructor completed in their first year, and receive 40 hours of in service training every year after that.  Once they've completed they can operate alone and unsupervised.     I wouldn't suggest you stick somebody with just 80 hours of training answering 911 calls, or traffic stops...  but there is no reason they couldn't man the phones, drive out and take police reports, and do very basic investigative work...  Also, there is no reason they can't provide backup for the full time deputies.   Here are the rules: http://www.tn.gov/sos/rules/1110/1110-08.pdf   Truth is the main reason why we don't see more volunteer deputies is because police unions don't like them  they think the reserve deputies take away overtime opportunities for full time employees.  Or limit the growth in size of the full time police force (who become union members).    

Simple solution, volunteer reserve deputies.  Problem solved.   I'm willing to bet this county's parks department still has employees, that the clerks office is open with 3 or 4 workers 6 days a week still...  Don't fall for the game they're playing...  local government could be cut by 50% and nobody would notice, if done correctly.