JayC

If somebody lives in Cookeville and is aware which council member is truly pro-2A, ask them to introduce an ordinance to terminate the Police Chief... Doesn't have to pass, but he'll get the point

I maybe mistaken but I believe such a bill is sitting in committee h*ll right now. If so, finding the sponsor and working to push that bill through would be easier than getting a new bill introduced.

+1 Also, keep in mind 2010 is an election year, who in their right mind is going to support any form of gun registration next year? Talk about upsetting some voters... No way you get NRA approval voting for that bill.

I've never heard of somebody who settled with their first holster... Everybody is different it will likely take some time find the perfect holster (I'm still looking).... Maybe some information on your style of dress and the level of concealment you're hoping for? Do you wear your shirts untucked? Are you looking for total concealment or just so the average Joe doesn't notice 99 times out of a 100?

Well more importantly, under current TN state law, bars which serve liquor are illegal in the state of TN... Maybe the real solution here is to have the TN ABC enforce state law and revoke liquor licenses for these bars since they're not restaurants.

I'm re-broadcasting the second hour of the Bob Pope Talk show over on TFALive (visit the TFA website, and then click TFALive). I'll be re-running the 2nd hour at least 2 more times tonight. It will be a couple more days before I get the first hour online (we had some audio problems recording it). Any question post away.

This show will be broadcast live on the TFALive TV channel on their website. (Barring any unforseen technically issues).

The loophole is a legal one right now, it doesn't ban firearms, it requires that you have a 'permit' (otherwise called TN hunting license) to access the NF with a firearm. Which is exactly the way the LBL 'general order' is worded. They're closing the area unless you have a permit, and then requiring that you have a hunting license as a permit to carry a firearm. This general order was written with the help of the TWRA to stop poaching years ago. As I said earlier in the post, the best way to fix this from a state law is to have HCP be a type of hunting license under state law. I know it's a long shot, but it wouldn't require talking an Obama political appointee into changing the general order.

Or if the phrase "the public requiring it" is not there it becomes law 40 days after being passed. It's very rare anymore for a bill not to have that phrase but it does happen from time to time.

I made a follow up call today and I'm still waiting a return call, I get the impression they are waiting on in house legal counsel to do some research for them on the subject.

I'd contact an employment lawyer and discuss this with them right away. The couple of hundred it might cost to get them involved will be nothing compared to the loss of your job in this economy. While TN is a right to work state (ie they can fire you for almost any reason under the sun) having somebody knowledgeable in the exceptions to that rule to make sure you don't make some mistake in this process would be well worth the money.

It's my understanding that open carry is not allowed in Texas at this time... It may well be somebody who illegally open carried there... Or could be related to a hunting violation... both would seem to fall under that category.

There are two big things that could be added to this law in TN if we were serious about putting a stop to the ATF overstepping the 10th amendment... First revoke revoke law enforcement powers in the state of TN for federal employees involving firearms made under this law. You take away their law enforcement powers involving cases for guns made in TN that stay in TN then their just another citizen with no special powers or rights. Second, make it a felony to attempt arrest a TN resident who makes or posses a firearm made in TN that stays in TN under this new law. Neither are likely to happen here, but if those two basic provisions were enacted it would put a stop to the ATF coming in and trying to arrest somebody... And before anybody says that wouldn't fly legally, it's basically the same plan northern states used right before the civil war to ignore slave fugitive laws passed by congress, and I'm pretty sure it was upheld as legal by SCOTUS back in the day.

That might happen here in TN, but the Montana law requires the AG of Montana to defend any citizen charged under their 10th amendment law... So if the feds pick somebody in Montana they will be fighting the state AG not just the citizen in question.

My point is, there are a lot of possible things that can go wrong... the truth is that justifiable shootings are very rare, and the cases where a HCP shoots a bad guy in the process of committing a robbery and then gets charged are even more rare... to the point I'm not aware of that happening in this state in the last 10 years, are you? Folks should worry about making sure they understand the LAW as it involves self defense and making shots count under stress... Most important being sure they truly have a justifiable self defense shooting before even allowing their gun to clear the holster... Not worrying about some possible legal theory which hasn't happened before in this state, and may never happen in the future.... If you get the three things above correct the chances you'll ever see the inside of a jail cell is pretty darn remote let alone the inside of a courtroom. We've got a lot of stuff to worry about, making up more stuff that might be a problem in .00001% of incidents isn't worth focusing on.

I'd go a step further, he doesn't have to point the handgun at anybody for a real threat to be there... Him just displaying the weapon while telling people to get down, or robbing the bank is an implied threat to use the handgun if you don't comply... And that makes it an imminent threat of death or serious injury.

I understand, but it's important that we don't allow his "politically correct" version of the "law" to get passed along any further... Clearly what he said isn't completely accurate.

Well I'm pretty sure it's a "grey" area at best... I wasn't there so I'm not going to question the judgment of the HCP holder... but the HCP holder clearly convinced the police officers at the scene it was justified and was not charged with a crime... but IMHO it's a grey area for sure... I'm just trying to point out that in reality, law enforcement gives a great deal of slack when it comes to true citizen vs bad guy robber in this state as far as justified shootings go... I'm not suggesting you should push you're luck, but you're hard pressed to find cases in the last 10 years where bad guy walks in with handgun, threatens to rob the place and gets shot by HCP holder, and the HCP holder gets charged with anything. The big concern you should take is to avoid hitting innocent bystanders, that will get you into trouble IMHO... not shooting a criminal in the process of waving a gun around during a robbery.

I'm sorry but I disagree... a robber comes into the bank holding a gun in the air and tells everybody to get down... I think if I don't get down on the ground he's going to shoot me... That meets the definition of a imminent danger of death/serious injury in my book... I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have to be facing you for the threat to continue to be real... if he's still in the process of robbing the place he's still a threat... so shooting him in the back while in the bank waving a gun in the air is still going to be a justified shooting... Once he reaches the door, you're right continuing to chase him and shoot at him at that point would be a possible criminal act. But everything before that point in time sure sounds like a justified shooting to me. Keep in mind him HAVING the gun in his hand is an implied threat to use it to commit his crime. The fact he isn't pointing it at you does not change the fact in a split second he could shoot you with it... The threat is real and imminent the entire time he's committing his crime.

As Hex and Punisher already stated... you either misunderstood your instructor or he doesn't know what he's talking about. A guy walks up to you in a parking lot holding a handgun and says 'give me all your money', any reasonable person would believe there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury... The fact he isn't pointing the handgun at you doesn't change the fact there is a real threat. So take the same bad guy walking into a restaurant or gas station and doing the same thing... What changes all of a sudden? He's still a imminent threat to your life or to a third parties life... We've seen example after example of HCP holders killing people robbing businesses in TN and there being no charges filed against the shooter because it was a justified shooting. I'll go as far as to point out we've even had at least 1 HCP holder firing on a fleeing 'get away' vehicle in the parking lot after a robbery and not get changed here near Nashville in the last 6 months (not that I would recommend doing that in any way shape or form!)....

Can you provide a case where that has happened? The truth is most justified self defense (or defense of others) shootings in TN don't result in any charges or successful civil cases. The reason for this is, it's not good politics to charge a law abiding citizen for defending them self (or their family) against a scumbag bad guy in TN currently. There is really good advice on this forum about what to say (and what not to say) to the police after you've been involved in a justified self defense shooting.... So I won't go over it again... But you've got to go pretty far outside the lines of common sense to get yourself charged in this state for shooting a man waving a gun around in a public business trying to rob the place... You've got too many examples of robbers killing all witnesses in this state to not call that a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm... (Paul Reid for example) It's not going to matter what caliber gun you're carrying, or what bullets it had in it, no DA in his right mind is going to want to charge an otherwise law abiding citizen in that type of case... UNLESS you manage to kill an innocent bystander in the process, but even then it's likely the bad guy would be the one charged with felon murder not you. The fact is most common self defense rounds are carry by law enforcement as well... it shouldn't take a half decent lawyer 15 minutes to find an 'expert witness' to testify the reason their department uses brand X of ammo is because testing shows it works to stop the THREAT quickly.

There are some states which ban teflon coated rounds... But for no good reason since it only impacts wear and tear on the gun, and does not impact the effectiveness of 'bullet proof' vests.

I'm sorry Muttling, there are a couple of errors in your post.... You're correct if you don't have a license to carry you can be charged with a crime if you use your weapon in self defense, but unless you're a convicted felon, the maximum charge would be intent to go armed and would be a class A misdemeanor not a felony. As for HCP holder there is a bit of the loophole in the current law that states you can not be charged with a crime for possession if you're involved in a justified self defense shooting. Now you are at a minor risk if you have the handgun in your possession when the police show up of being charged but if it's on the ground for example, then you're protected from being charged. Again worse case is a class A misemeanor charge - frankly I'd rather fight a Class A charge than be dead... (again this entire example being carry in an otherwise illegal location) If you go back and read news accounts from when handgun carry was still illegal in places that sold beer and wine by the bottle (Krogers, local gas station) you'll note a number of justified shootings from HCP permit holder that had technically violated the law carrying into the location but were not charged with any crimes while involved in a justified self defense shooting. I'll also point out another recent case, where a father with a HCP used a pistol to "scare off" a would be attacker on school grounds, and was charged with a crime... The judges own ruling even said if he had produced the gun in self defense he would not have been guilty of a crime, it's because he didn't not remove the firearm from it's holster, and just showed it to scare off the attacker that got him into trouble. As for "synthetic rounds" I'm assuming you mean teflon coated bullets... I can't find a law that prohibits these bullets in TN, can you please provide a cite? Even AP rounds for handguns which the sale or importing of which are banned under federal law, possession is not banned. You're right you might well be have a lawsuit filed, but TN has one of the best self defense laws in the country. Which includes the judge having to award you attorney fees, and lost income if you're involved in a justifiable shooting lawsuit. This tends to keep the lawyers away. I would agree that knowing the law is important for everybody carrying a handgun for self defense...

Technically speaking abstaining in this case is a 'soft' no vote... Unless it's an Aye vote, it's for all practical purposes a Nay vote.

I'm pretty sure no DA is going to charge you with anything for shooting a criminal in the process of robbing a place with a gun. That is a classic example of reasonable fear of death of grave bodily harm if I've ever heard of one... As a matter of fact I seem to recall a robber here in Middle TN that almost exactly matches this scenario, bad guy robs a store and is shot at by one of the customers, the customer isn't charged with a crime... I know for a fact we had a liquor store robbery a few years back where a customer shot and killed the bad guy, and wasn't charged...