Jamie Jackson

Opinions are indeed multifaceted Leroy, and while ours certainly differ, I respect yours and appreciate your clarification as to your points.   We can, in fact, agree to disagree.   I don't teach "gunfighting", but I am a lifelong student and find that even at my age I can always learn. It is our responsibility as a student to spend our funds wisely and vet our instructors. I know I do.   I also agree that "You cannot measure the mettle, will, and determination of men or women and find out whether, in fact; they are the "real deal" too...", but I don't think any of us can say assuredly that these attributes are within us until that moment. And I hope that moment never comes for me, but I'll continue to prepare nonetheless, and remain grateful that there are good folks willing to teach us.   Have a good day Leroy...I gotta get to work.

Maybe you guys are seeing/reading something I'm not.   I reread this thread and maybe I missed the "hero" statement...I don't know...   I did make a statement that I had respect for the men that lost, or nearly lost, their lives. Not because they are cops or Feds, but because they choose to do their job and most of them continued to fight courageously, i.e. Mireles.   Did they screw up? Was some of this a total CF? Yep...Big Time. Major.   I respect anyone that does their job and doesn't infringe on my God Given Constitutionally Protected Rights. But we aren't discussing that here, with all due respect.   I appreciate the lessons we can learn and implement from their screwups.   I hold in high esteem men like Jeff Cooper...I've sat at his table and feel fortunate to have been able to spend that time with him. I've trained with Tom Givens, Craig Douglas, Hershel Davis and others that have that "real world" experience and many others that have trained with such people and are able to distill and share knowledge from those instructors and share that information with the willing.   I have never been in a gunfight and pray I never am. I have had my bacon saved on a couple of occasions because of training I've received, the Good Lord's Grace and blind luck. eta: The training I attribute this to was from individuals that had not "shot" other individuals as in not been in a gunfight...but that had incredibly valuable ( to me) information they taught. I am grateful for that.   I intend no disrespect to anyone posting here, but I don't understand the direction of some of the posts. Just my opinion and observation.

Here are a couple of pics of slide's from John Hearne's excellent powerpoint presented at IALEFI "The FBI's Miami Firefight: Lessons that still resonate" There are some interesting photos that reveal the incredibly close proximity of the firefight...the stories from it make it sound as though there was much greater distance involved. Of particular interest in motivating my training regime are these 2 slides: These 2 guys were well trained, well practiced, highly motivated psychopaths/sociopaths...they are not the only ones out there my friends. The "explanation" regarding the 2 slides linked are within the pdf. It's well worth reading imho. LINK to PDF http://www.ialefi.com/conf2012/Instructor%20Proposals/Hearne,%20John/FBI-Miami%20Handouts.pdf

Randy also wrote "Pistols suck at stopping people." Yes they do suck! They suck bad at this job.   I've seen people shot multiple times and not really seriously care about the fact. I had a guy that had 9 rounds in him help me get a guy out of the car he was driving that had been shot 7 times and get him into our ER. 9 round dude had been shot before and knew his wounds weren't life, nor apparently fight, ending as he slipped out later to go "finish" his "business"....yes, there were officers all over the place...it happens...but a large portion of the survivable handgun "stops" are psychological....they just don't want to be shot anymore...   Face shots are a good thing. They take a lot of the fight out of most folks, maybe even get one in the brainbox...even better.   Rapid surgical placement is something I still struggle with...but at least I know it's required.

Excellent topic Randy!   I first read of this incident back in '88-'89 in, iirc, an issue of Handguns Magazine. (I still have the issue in the basement somewhere).   I have a copy of "In the Line of Duty" on DVD. It was remarkably accurate in it's portrayal from what I've read on the subject.             Quite a bit, but sometimes it seems not enough. Fighting institutional dogma, both within Law Enforcement Training and the general training community has been, and on some level, still is, an uphill battle.   This fight was up close, fast, against 2 well armed, practiced and determined individuals and a complete paradigm shift from what was currently taught at that time.   The FBI and the Gun Media deflected the mistakes that were clearly a "training issue" to "a failure of the ammo issue...The 9mm Winchester Silvertip in particular. Ammo isn't the answer in most cases, but having the will to fight, adequate tools (and realistic expectations of their capabilities), and quality realistic training can make a difference. Will make a difference imho.   John Hearne, one of the finest critical thinkers and researchers within our community has an excellent powerpoint presentation on the fight that is probably available on the interwebs somewhere.   I have incredible respect for several of the agents involved, Ed Mireles in particular...Man! You talk about determination and force of will! I don't even think the one hand operation of a 12g pump was being taught at the time, but Mireles put it to use!   Also, again iirc, as this was the very early days of the autoloader and revolvers were still the norm, agents were trained to transition to a second gun (generally a 5 shot J frame) when their primary went empty...a handgun markedly more difficult to shoot rapidly and accurately by comparison...     (You guys have already covered other aspects and improvements quite well and much better I could articulate)       My edited version of Randy's post brings to mind our recent discussion of preparing for a worst case scenario...having to fight a "Todd"...maybe a couple of them, as in this incident. Talk about your day going from bad to worse...   Platt and Matix apparently made a habit of frequent practice, we are talking ammo by the case load. They were knowledgeable of, and utilized some pretty sound tactics, and their level of aggression was obvious.   I am a civilian and it's not my job to chase down bad actors like this...but you never know what will come down the pike. I pray I never find myself in this type of situation, but I am thankful for the positive advances in the art of fighting that is a direct result of the lessons learned from the sacrifice of these gentlemen.

You make some good points David.   I appreciate reading AAR's from members here, as it helps me to allocate my limited "training" funds. I don't believe your post was directed totally at rn29306 nor my encouragement of his AAR. I have attended a class with the OP before, so I felt his AAR would be beneficial to our community. Hence my encouragement.   Your point is very valid though, as I too have seen quite a few folks (as TDR mentioned), out of state even, posting in relatively unveiled advertisement mode...   I would have thought Valor Ridge would have taken advantage of joining our community as a vendor...perplexing to say the least, because, as you mentioned, TGO definitely is an influential force in the TN firearms community at large.   Thanks for the hard work you and all of the mods do in keeping TGO the quality site it is.

  Thanks for the recommendation and the link David (and TNPopo). Got one ordered. Great price and shipping.

  If you don't mind me asking David, what holster do you use for pocket carry?   I have had my magazine pop twice in a soft Mika pocket holster... I know, that's what you'd call a "clue"...I returned my J Frame back to it's pocket carry role until a more suitable holster is chosen... hence the question.   fwiw I carry in Carhartt carpenter jeans, nice roomy pockets.

Thank you rn29306.   Well written AAR and I appreciate the vid link. Wow! Very nice setup. You can tell a lot of thought and hard work went into the development of the facility. Good on Reid and PN.   Thank you for sharing this with us.       Also Thank you Jon Abrams. Good info.

    I wish I could go simply to meet you because of your disclaimer!    :cheers:   Enjoy yourselves folks.

Thanks for the head's up jgrady.   I agree with you hipower...it can really be a challenge finding truly decent works in this genre of books. Generally Amazon reviews are relatively reliable, but individual tastes vary widely... That's the main reason I check here frequently for recommendations...we all generally seem to be on the same "page" (pardon the pun) in regards to books.

    While not 1fast4by...   The general "feel" of a handgun is very subjective...unique to each individual.   I'm a hardcore Glock guy...but I own a 9mm Shield and find it one of the best little guns I've ever own. Great handling, very good stock trigger, reliable, and as has been mentioned, it shoots as easily as a full sized handgun. I only have about 1500 rounds through it thus far, but it's fed pretty much everything I've put into it without issues.   One of our group was in the market for a single stack compact 9mm. We brought out my Shield, Matt's Glock 43 and an XDs and let our friend shoot all 3. He choose the Glock 43 because it "felt" the best "for him". Very subjective thing.   If you have the opportunity to try before you buy, that wouldn't be a bad thing. But I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Shield to anyone. Great little gun imho!

  I'm impressed! :hat:

Do you have a shot (photo) from the bullet end and something for size comparison?   The protrusion, from the second photo, looks a bit like the Pin Grabber rounds...   Looking forward to others comments and enlightenment. :pleased:

  Where in the world did you ever get that idea from??? :dropjaw:   No my friend...shoot more! And always have access to ammo...at a much more affordable cost.   You'll love it! :cheers:

I am most definitely looking forward to this class!   This level of quality street applicable training doesn't come around very often folks. I hope you guys and gals will be able to take advantage of this opportunity.   Thank you Randy for bringing this to our area.

Dolomite nailed it!   We've run 130 gr cast powder coated bullets through an OEM Glock 34 up to 1350 fps and the barrel remained pretty darn clean and absolutely no signs of leading.   Our range rounds are at 1000 fps + and are incredibly sweet shooting.   Commercial lead bullets: I just this past week worked up a load for some 147 gr Falcon bullets I had on hand using Lovex Clean Shot DO32 powder. Primarily because of the lube with non-powder coated bullets, they do smoke a little...but not much. It's just part of the deal with such.   Slugging your barrel(s) and matching with the appropriate bullet diameter and running them at a reasonable speed minimizes the chance of leading.   Since I run Glocks primarily, I do have a couple of Lone Wolf barrels. No worries using the plain lead in my Shield though. (This refers to non-PC bullets)   When you get ready to cast and powder coat Kevin, let me know and I'll help however I can.

I have a Competition Electronics Prochrono and love that little sucker.   As a matter of fact I used it this morning out at ORSA...overcast, cloudy and shortly before a torrential downpour... worked great.   Here's a link to one at Midway, very fair price imho.   http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/113204/competition-electronics-prochrono-pal-chronograph?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Chronographs%2C+Wind+Meters+%26+Timers-_-Competition+Electronics-_-113204&gclid=CKzR1Zj768sCFdgBgQodPdsI6w

I'll be working, of course...but anxiously anticipating your AAR!   Enjoy!

I think .22LR has been banned from the Knoxville area, that or we have a disproportionate number of scroungers around here... :cry:

I don't own a .22 mag, but just got an e-mail from J&G. They list some .22 mag ammo and so I thought I'd pass the info along.   It's S&B at $17.95for a box of 50 in case anyone is interested.     http://www.jgsales.com/-p-428.html?fullsite=true

Great advice already given.   Don't beat yourself up Preacher. Anyone that handloads will make mistakes eventually. We simply have to learn from them. And I definitely believe you'll be more diligent in the future. I've blown a Glock 21 with a double charge of W231 over 15 years ago. (Glock replaced the gun btw...Great customer service!). I learned to alter my process and setup, increased my already anal-retentive QC process, and I don't hesitate to pull apart any cartridge I might even begin to doubt for whatever reason...just part of practicing a safe handloading process.   At least you realized it before you had an accident my friend. I have my "handloading eraser" aka kinetic bullet puller handy on my bench...just in case. :nervous:   Patton nailed it as far as checking though. But if you have any serious doubts or concerns, just pull 'em and start over.   I've used 10's of thousands of magnum pistol primers in making 9mm rounds. The velocity increase is marginal when I've chrono'ed them, and no signs of increased pressure. But that is pistol...not rifle. The height of the rifle might even potentially bind a revolver cylinder depending on the tolerances...but I don't know this from personal experience.   We live and learn Preacher. So pick up that towel and get back to work! :up:

  100% agree with this concept as voiced by Mikegideon, Dolomite and others.   Having the knowledge, skills and easily stored components gives you freedom for market constraints and supply demands...which have been totally unpredictable (at least irrational) the past several years. And being an election year? Well...more irrational behavior is coming our way.   Lead can be a challenge to find for free...but it is doable...and does take a lot of networking.   Components are the most broadly available and affordable currently than they have been for the past several years...and are easy to store for a seriously long time. (I'm still using some powder and primers I purchased in the early 1990"s...but continuing to purchase more components as I find good deals on them.)   I agree...save money? Not really....shoot a lot more and more affordably...Yep.   fwiw...even buying lead off of a site like Amazon would yield you 124 gr 9mm bullets at around $.04/each http://www.amazon.com/Ingots-Reloading-Bullets-Casting-Sinkers/dp/B00DJUBVAQ   We (our group) cast and powder coat, this gives us exactly what we want and need, when we want and need it. That's a good feeling as we know we can keep shooting what may come down the pike.   :2cents:

You're welcome of course.   E-mail in a few.

I also have a pdf for a Dot Drill that we ran in Andy Stanford's "Surgical Speed Shooting" way back when that is excellent for working sight alignment, trigger control, and follow through...   but I haven't a clue how to upload the pdf... any suggestions?   I can always e-mail the pdf to you shotgunshooter...if you'd like.   I am "cyberchallenged" obviously... :wall: