Cruel Hand Luke

The marksmanship is marksmanship no matter where the gun started. Once it is out you either hit what you aim at or not. The draw merely adds somewhere between .75 to 1.5 seconds to the equation....if you know how to cut corners and buy time (exploiting their OODA cycle ) you can buy that time back...and then some. As to training and your logic, the point was that since you seem to be saying that since you are not likely to be killed in training that the stress is so different that the training is either irrelevant or makes no difference in performance......yet we have volumes of stories of people in life and death stress situations where they say "I didn't think about what might happen to me I just did what I had been trained to do". And I have experienced that myself. I didn't think about what might happen I just did what I knew I had to do. Afterwards it was "damn...I'm lucky to be alive". In the middle of it that never crossed my mind....I didn't have any time to think about it until later.... Again I'm not interested in what the typical" least common denominator" level guys can do under stress. If in the moment you are worried about death and not intently focused on performing the skills then you are probably going to lose anyway.

Well under that logic then there is no point in ANY kind of training since we are never going to have a 100% replication of the real thing since we are not likely to be killed in training.....yet the Delta and Seal Team (and SAS and a mile long list of other folks) operators routinely are able to perform high levels of shooting under real life and death stress ....why? Training. A big part of it is knowing what to expect. Not just some nebulous "danger" but seeing how the scenarios actually play out be they military or civilian.From civilian perspective it goes a LONG way just to have seen what it looks like for someone to approach you and pull a weapon on you. What does an assault look like? How does the bad guy close the distance? What are the cues of impending criminal assault? What will it take to get ahead of him in the OODA cycle? These are what you get from training and while no you are not likely to get killed in training it comes a lot closer to the real thing than just reading books. Now, just shooting paper? No. I'm talking about well structured FOF training that acts as stress innoculation. We hear it all the time from mil and police guys who say "my training just took over". There is a reason for that.

Ok fine....the Quarterback who throws a ball to the side away from the receiver's defender (avoiding the possible interception) while he knows he's about to get hit by the defensive lineman. He KNOWS that he may well get hit hard enough to be injured permanently every time he gets sacked..... yet he focuses on the task at hand. That a better analogy?

TMF, no one is saying (at least they shouldn't be) that shooting people in the pelvis NEVER works. Just like no one is saying shooting in the head ALWAYS works. I have friend whose dad shot a guy in the leg and the guy stopped. But then you have guys like my great grandfather who killed two guys after BOTH of them had shot him in the torso. Neither one hit anything vital...and he hit both the other guys multiple times in the chest and they died on the spot. You just don't know how someone will react to being hit in a non vital area.Sometimes they crumple and sometimes not.... Most people shot in the heart, spine or brain react the same.... Five things stop people. 1. Most common is FEAR. 2. Next is PAIN. But if fear and pain don't do it we are gonna have to 3. drop blood pressure to where they pass out .... 4. Or hit the spine and paralyze them..... 5. Or turn off the lights with a round in the brain. Fortunately most people stop when shot ANYWHERE. But for those that do not the quicker we can do the most damage the better. If it is the statistically typical civilian gunfight at 3 yards or less, then I'm a proponent of skipping the pelvic area and directing everything from the diaphragm up if at all possible. And you will perform to the level you have internalized in training. A jumpshot with someone guarding you in the state tournament is a complex thing. Choosing whether you will use the board and bank it or shoot straight for the rim is a decision to be made in microseconds under stress and largely depends on how far you are, what the angle to the basket is and how the guy guarding you is playing you ....yet people do it every year. How? Because they practice game situations regularly. If someone's idea of training involves sporadic once every other blue moon static square range bullseye shooting with no interaction via Force on Force against live uncooperative opponents then no...they probably will not be able to process info fast enough to shift targeting areas. Just like the guy who only watches basketball on TV will not be able to score on someone guarding him with 1000 people watching. But if it is something they do regularly (or at least train to a close approximation of) then they probably will be able to do it. I'm not interested in what the least common denominator can do. I'm interested in what the dedicated practitioner can do.

As to the pelvis....It MAY work ..it MAY not. I had a girlfriend who was in a car wreck. The car went off the interstate and flipped end over end . Her pelvis was broken in THREE places..... yet she crawled 50 yards back to the road to flag down help....so if a 17 year old girl was able to do that I don't hold out much hope for a pelvic shot to turn off the bad guy's trigger finger. If pain does not stop them, then we are back to needing to turn off the lights....so why not just skip straight to shutting off the power? As to rounds hitting them in the " credit card" or the "ocular-nasal triangle" YES those are all that will for sure get into the cranial vault and hit the brain....Both Platte and Maddox had pistol bullets recovered from under their scalp that did not penetrate their skulls in the Miami FBI shootout in 1986. The skull IS very hard and rounds need to be directed into the eye orbit and nose to reliably hit the brain.... But....... does anyone really think that a bullet through the teeth or a bullet in the jaw or square in the forehead does not hurt and does not have some kind of negative effect on their ability to do damage to us? And why do we always seem to assume that we will just fire ONE round and stop? The first 1 might not hit him in the eye, but the follow up shots will be doing damage too.... Also consider this....what follows the bullet? SOUND, hot gas and burning powder. At less than 3 yards that is like having a cherry bomb go off at arms length. If nothing else it is very likely to get them to close their eyes and flinch. Do we think that will make it easier or harder for them to continue their assault? And again....we keep shooting until they quit doing what made us shoot them to begin with . There is no "shoot 2 and assess" it is "keep shooting until they are no longer able to hurt you. "

Let's define the problem a little better..... Is the target a suspect held at gunpoint 6 yards away who suddenly produces a weapon? Or is it an aggressive panhandler who had maneuvered to within 2 arms length and then suddenly produced a weapon? Or is it an active shooter who is 30 yards away? Or is it someone doing their best Trayvon Martin impersonation who has mounted you and working the ground and pound trying to beat you to death? You see the answer largely depends on the situation. If he is 30 yards away then COM is all you are likely hit ....no matter how good a shot you are . If he is farther than 5 yards then the head is not an easy shot unless he is not mobile. At less than 4 yards (and closing on you) then head shots are A LOT easier than most people realize. Can you hit a volleyball at 3 yards ? How about 2 yards? If we plug it into actual close range assaults the head shots get easier...IF that is what you have trained to do and trained to do it against live opponents while you are semi adrenalyzed. And if you understand the OODA concept, action vs reaction, and how to exploit that to your advantage it is easy. How about in touching distance? With him on top of you ? Once you have grabbed his left arm and pulled across to your left side(unbalancing and dropping him onto his face and chest onto the ground) and scooted your hips (to your right) out from under him? Now you just draw and lay the muzzle on the back of his left shoulder and fire a shot from 4 inches from his head. Can you make THAT shot? I would hope so. So we see that depending on the distance and depending on your training and depending on your skill as a shooter and your ability to shift gears from the defensive to the offensive you can in fact make head shots IF you try to. Would I recommend it for the typical CCW license holder? No. But there are people out there carrying guns in public that have FAR and AWAY more skill than the typical CW holder and FAR and AWAY more skill than the typical police officer. For THOSE people? They can make those shots. You just have to make a real serious assessment of your skill level and decide accordingly. And that decision does not need to be made for the first time in the middle of the situation when it is real....... As for me, in MOST situations the body shots are plan A. But realizing pistols are notoriously weak stoppers plan A is actually a burst of 3 to 5 to the body...and then IMMEDIATELY stage for the headshot. If the head is still there...then take the shot. If it is not...then he fell down....and we simply do not take the shot. Pretty simple. I look at the body shots like a flurry of punches to the body setting them up for a knockout blow.....if they fall from the body blows then we don't throw the hook.... The body shots at 3 yards (assuming you understand grip and follow through) are fired like a burst from a submachine gun. Due to the close proximity of the target these can be fired at warp speed and still get tightly grouped high COM hits. These are more times than not going to be LIKELY to do what needs to be done.....but I do not EXPECT them to. I EXPECT to then have to take the head shot. And since I am EXPECTING it, I am already looking for a sight picture and getting ready to take the head shot once the last shot of the body burst is fired. Not standing and gawking wondering why it didn't work and what to do next. Training fills in those empty pages in your mental rolodex so you know what to do next and don't hesitate or freeze. But there are situations where head shot might be plan A. If the BG is rapidly closing with a contact weapon or if he is reaching for a weapon and at 2 arms length distance then the head may well be plan A. but for MOST situations outside 2 arms length then the body is still plan A.

For those attending, the weather is supposed to be 60 and sunny. Looking forward to it !!!!

Are some arsenals excellent? Yes. Are some arsenals problematic? Yes. Are some Saigas excellent? yes. Are some Saigas problematic? Yes. But then again for that matter....are some WASR 10s excellent? Yes...a few. Are some WASR10s problematic. Yes a good many. On the Arsenals and Saigas.... I have a few (2 107CRs, 107Ur, 107F, Saiga sgl 31-47) and have been lucky. But I have also seen canted sight blocks that made the rifles all but impossible to zero. They are all made with typical eastern combloc quality....which is hit and miss. Some are accurate and reliable, some are reliable but not accurate and a very few are neither accurate nor reliable.....and you can't tell until you get them. But having said that , from my experience you are more likely to get a good one than a bad one. But that does not mean there are not bad ones out there.

[b]January 5-6, 2013 HRO - CQB: FIGHTING IN STRUCTURES Chattanooga, Tennessee Instructor: Randy Harris[/b] [b]Price $400[/b] [b]CQB - FIGHTING IN STRUCTURES[/b][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3] is a course that focuses on the tactics a single shooter, or a small team of two shooters, would use to operate inside of a building. Students attending this course will learn time-proven and results-based strategies for negotiating through any possible architectural obstacle found in a building using simple tactical logic, and to handle any high risk situation they might face from setting up a hasty ambush for home invaders, to searching/clearing operations, to direct action attacks against active shooters or home invaders. Moreover, all of the material is easy to learn and requires minimal sustainment as it draws upon existing skill sets learned in other Suarez International training courses. As well, facility allowing, students will operate in varying light levels adding the tactical use of artificial lighting to their skill sets. This course is not about leaving a mountain of spent brass on the range, it is about learning to think tactically and solve problems like an operator. Open to all private citizens.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Some Of The Topics Covered:[/size][/font][/color][list] [*]Tactical Concepts and Analysis [*]Identification of threats and danger areas [*]Negotiating common architectural obstacles [*]Entry, establishing security and dominating [*]Operating in two man and three man cells [*]Covert communications [*]Low light operations and the use of technological assets [*]Coordinating team fire [/list] [color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Because of the nature of the training, the class will be strictly limited to 12 participants.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]You will need no ammunition for this class as it is a movement and tactics based class.[/size][/font][/color] [b]DURATION:[/b] 2 days [b]TIME:[/b] 9:00AM-5:00PM [b]PREREQUISITES:[/b] NONE [b]AMMUNITION:[/b]Plastic airsoft pellets. NO STEEL! [b]YOU NEED TO BRING:[/b] Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape) [b]REQUIREMENTS:[/b] Blue/Red training gun or empty Airsoft pistol. Need Airsoft C02 or gas pistol and plastic pellets, no steel! Extra mag and C02/gas is good. Defensive flashlight for reduced light session. [b]LOCATION:[/b] [b]Chattanooga Shooters Supply[/b] 2600 Walker Rd Chattanooga, TN 37421 423-827-9133 For more info and to sign up for this class.....[url="http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/jan5-2013-cqb-fighting-in-structures-chattanooga-tn.aspx"]HRO - CQB: Fighting in Structures[/url]

As to the round count, my own personal opinion is that there is a fine line between shooting enough to work the skills and shooting so much that all you are doing is taking up time making noise.A high round count is an easy way to hide deficiencies in curriculum.There are those who subscribe tp the idea of "If you run out of things to teach...just have 'em shoot more". On the other hand if we are teaching a class on how to lower your split times in an IPSC match, then yes a 4 digit round count is useful. On the other hand you can shoot on your own time. You come to class to learn to shoot better sure, but also to learn how to run the rifle (which amazingly enough does not require it to go BANG everytime), and to learn tactics and strategy . But the gun actually going BANG is just the last part of a chain of events. And there is actually a diminishing returns on number of rounds fired. There is a "sweet spot" in number of rounds where you are shooting enough to "get it" and then there is shooting so much that all you are doing is "more of the same". There is a lot more to it than just shooting. To steal a line from someone else...."most people spend 95% of their time working on the last 5% of the solution." I think a better use of your time is to look at the first 95% in context and then have a better grasp of the last 5%. As to the distance in combat, Gabe did the research on that. It has been a generally accepted maxim since the early 90s when I got into it that rifle engagements are typically 50 meters or less. They actually taught us that in ROTC. The days of trench warfare and 800 yard volley fire had been over since 1918, no one was engaging each other across the plains of Europe, and the Soviets never rolled through the Fulda gap. What was being seen was jungle and urban fighting in SE Asia, South America, Africa, and the Middle East. None of that was involving 600 meter shots unless you consider snipers who are a very specailized combat tool. But on that subject lets look at real live bad ass steely eyed death dealing snipers like Vasily Zaytsev and what the typical distance he shot Germans at in Stalingrad......well under 100 meters. Mechanized warfare in built up areas in the late 20th and early 21st century (OTHER THAN AFGHANISTAN) did not require a lot of CMP style marksmanship. It required more fire and manuever at ranges generally under 100 yards. Now lets spin it back around to 99.99% of the people reading this. In civilian USA what is the typical police sniper shot? About 50 yards. That is PISTOL range for some people. How big is your yard? How long is the longest shot you can take in your house? How far will you actually be taking a shot at someone who is assaulting you? How are you going to articulate in court a 225 yard shot ? What scenario do you REALLY see yourself actually engaging someone at distances over 50 yards? I'm not saying it CAN'T happen, I'm saying it is very unlikely in civlian world and in military world it is not super common either in urban areas, wooded areas , or jungle. Short of a straight up "end of the world as we know it" scenario, we as civilians will be far more likely to use a rifle at less than 25 yards than we will be to ever use it at more than 25 yards. As such we need to put a premium on cover (because getting behind things that stop bullets is good for you) , movement (because not being in front of their muzzle is good for you) manipulations (because all that time you are taking to fidgit with your gun is time the gun is out of the fight), and learning what is "fast and good enough" vs "slow and perfect". Fast good enough hits beat slow perfect hits. If you are still lining up the shot after he has shot you twice then your accurate shots will never get sent to him. On the other hand fast misses rarely advance your cause. So we learn perfection...and then step away from it as necessary. At 25 yards or less....perfection is rarely needed with a rifle. I hope that kind of anwers some of your question. A 2 minute discussion can take 10 pages to type and I'm trying to keep it short and readable. I'd love to discuss it with you in class!

For you west Tennessee TGO members looking to get some top quality rifle trainig, I will be offering the Suarez International Rifle Gunfighting Class in Tunica Mississippi in March. March 9-10, 2013 RIFLE GUNFIGHTING Tunica, Mississippi Instructor: Randy Harris Price $450 Rifle confrontations worldwide rarely exceed 25 yards. Rather than a long range marksman's weapon, our research shows the rifle will most likely be used just outside the reach of more conventional weapons, as well as within these closer intervals of confrontation. This course will take the student quickly through the basics and impart the techniques necessary to deploy the Tactical Rifle, Civilian Carbine, or Submachine gun in a close interval emergency.This course is highly recommended for civilian defenders, military personnel, or police operators (we make no distinction in the material presented). DURATION:2 days TIME: 9:00AM to 5:00PM (CST) PREREQUISITES: NONE AMMUNITION: Approximately 500 rounds (Minimum) and 100 rounds of pistol ammunition YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape) REQUIREMENTS: Rifle (Any action or caliber suitable for use within 50 yards), all weapons must be equipped with a sling, also bring a pistol with at least (2) magazines, belt, holster, magazine pouches, rifle ammo pouches,Ear & Eye protection (knee and elbow pads are strongly suggested) LOCATION: The Willows at Harrah's Resort and Casino 13615 Old Highway 61 North Robinsonville, MS 3866 662-357-3154 NOTE: Meet at the range office on the first day at 9am CST Map of compound: [url="http://www.harrahstunica.com/images/non_image_assets/TUN_PropertyMap_Area_4c.pdf"]http://www.harrahstu...Map_Area_4c.pdf[/url] Web: [url="http://www.harrahstunica.com/"]http://www.harrahstunica.com/[/url] For more info and to get registered for this class.......[url="http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/mar9-2013-rifle-gunfighting-tunica-ms.aspx#.UKJOs4foR9A"]March 9-10, 2013 - Rifle Gunfighting - Tunica, MS[/url]

I'm sure we'll look to schedule something in 2013 in K-ville.

Reminder!!!! This one is coming up a little over a week from now!!! Looking forward to seeing you there!

I'm sure at some point we'll do just a Sunday class .

This one is coming up in about 2 weeks!

Some prefer to take the simplest path and just learn one way of doing things. For some people that makes sense. Others prefer to get a broader perspective on things and make their own educated decisions on what works best for them. I would just seriously caution folks about doing their homework if they are going to choose to get emergency life saving skills from only 1 place. Make sure that what they are teaching is well thought out and pressure tested and not just "CCW class level marksmanship training". Not every school or even every instructor has the same experience, perspective, skill or even teaching ability. If you are looking to get skills to deal with aggressive panhandlers or an ATM robbery from someone who spent the last 8 years in Iraq doing military things then that training might not be the best match for what you are looking for. If you are getting ready to deploy to do military things with rifles then a class geared toward civilian CCW and dealing with the criminal assault paradigm in the USA might not be the best use of your time....you see not all training is geared toward all problems and not all problems have the same solutions. In my own training, I sought out different sources and then synthesized what worked best when tested under pressure via FOF and run through the filter of my own prior experiences. If your training works best against cardboard and paper but falls apart under the pressure of resisting opponents then you might want to rethink your skillsets. No one person has all the answers...but if you get a good sampling of answers you'll be able to make more educated decisions...and then after having "shopped around" you might find a particular source (whoever it may be) that you prefer to train with.

Hoping to see you both in class! For those who are on the fence and wondering just how much you can learn in 1 day, these are some topics covered..... Awareness avoidance/descalation what to do if you cannot avoid how body alarm reaction effects you (a fight for your life is not like plinking cans or shooting a match) combat drawstroke (most efficient way to drive the gun to the target and let the drawstroke aim the gun for you) grip (and why it is critical to you being all you can be as a shooter) sight alignment sight picture (learn perfection and step away from it as necessary) trigger control (educating your trigger finger to make you able to hit whatever you can see) follow through reloads (proactive and reactive) malfunction clearance (greatly simplified so we get it done faster) after action assessment (what to do after you shoot) Failure to stop (what to do if they don't stop after your initial shots) This material is perfect not only for the beginner but for the experienced shooter looking to tune up his or her skills or to get a better perspective on using a gun for personal protection. Hope to see you there!!!

Reminder, this one is right around the corner. This is an excellent chance to get solid foundational training based on learning how to shoot under the stress of a dangerous encounter....not just static bullseye shooting. The one day format makes for an opportunity to get a lot of info for a smaller investment in time and money than you'd have with a 2 day class. Looking forward to it!

This one is coming up in about a week and a half! Every time there is an active shooter incident the gun websites are full of folks discussing "what if there had been someone there who could have stopped it?" Then the discussion turns to whether the "average" shooter with a ccw would have been able to take action or if they would have just made things worse. The the discussion turns to "no one really trains for THAT situation".....well we do in this class. This is not a class where we pretend we are Delta operators kicking in Al Qaida doors. This class is based on teaching you the skills (both mental and physical) to survive (and maybe even stop) a Terrorist / Active shooter event. We will explore all engagement distances and look at whether YOU are armed or not and what solutions you might be able to work whether you are armed with nothing, with an improvised weapon, with a knife, or with pistol. We will look at skill sets using empty hands to disarm (and disassemble) the shooter. We look at knife skills to take down and finish the shooter. And of course we will delve deeply into improving your marksmanship skills to build the ability to engage with a pistol from distance. There is still time to get signed up for this one! Hope to see you there!

You are welcome to come to our pistol classes and use a pocket gun. We have one coming up in Knoxville Nov 17......http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/nov17-2012-combat-pistol-marksmanship-knoxville-tn.aspx While it is easier to fight with a full size pistol, we also realize that often due to wardrobe and Non Permissive Environments, you cannot always get away with a full size or even a midsize pistol. We simply make some concessions to where we have to access the pistol from and run the pistol how we need to to make it work. On a personal note I have carried a pistol daily in public for 20 years and most of that time has been using less than full size pistols from pocket carry. So I do know what the advantages and pitfalls are of carrying that way. So if you decide you want to attend a class with us we can certainly accommodate you on your pocket pistol.

Awesome. Looking forward to it! For those who are curious....... November 17, 2012 COMBAT PISTOL MARKSMANSHIP Knoxville, Tennessee Instructor: Randy Harris Price $ 225 In this class you will learn how to fire an accurate shot with your carry handgun, in situations replicating what may be necessary to prevail in a proactive street gunfight. This course is perfect for the novice or new CCW licensee (although no licenses are necessary to attend). DURATION: 1 day TIME: 9:00AM to 5:00PM (EST) PREREQUISITES:NONE AMMUNITION:Approximately 150 rounds (Minimum) YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape) REQUIREMENTS: Modern Defensive Pistol, Holster specifically made for that pistol and designed to be worn on the belt at the "strong side", 3 Magazines and One Magazine Pouch, A Belt of the same width as the belt loops for the holster and magazine pouches, Range Safety Gear (Eye protection and ear protection) LOCATION: Private Range 1818 Tarklin Valley Rd Knoxville, TN 37920 865-919-3909 NOTE: Private range easily accessible from Alcoa Highway and address is recognized by GPS systems. DIRECTIONS TO RANGE: From I-40, take US 129 / Alcoa Highway South approx 7 miles. Turn left and travel east on Singleton Station Road until end. From the south take US 129 / Alcoa Highway North, approx 1 mile past the I-140 interchange turn right onto Singleton Station Road until end. Turn L onto Will Mill Road, travel .2 miles Turn R onto Old Knoxville Highway / TN-33, travel . 2 miles Take first LEFT onto Martin Mill Pike, travel 5.2 miles Turn R onto Tarklin Valley Road, travel 1.3 miles Destination on the Right For more info and to register.....http://www.suarezint...oxville-tn.aspx

Clod Stomper, I sent you a PM

For the first time in Knoxville Tennessee we will be offering our Combat Pistol Marksmanship class on Saturday Nov 17. This is the perfect opportunity for either the new shooter who is looking to get started right, or for the more experienced shooter looking to expand their understanding of shooting in a defensive context. This is a 1 day class and as such represents an excellent investment in knowledge for a minimum investment in time and money. November 17, 2012 COMBAT PISTOL MARKSMANSHIP Knoxville, Tennessee Instructor: Randy Harris Price $225 In this class you will learn how to fire an accurate shot with your carry handgun, in situations replicating what may be necessary to prevail in a proactive street gunfight. This course is perfect for the novice or new CCW licensee (although no licenses are necessary to attend). DURATION: 1 day TIME: 9:00AM to 5:00PM (EST) PREREQUISITES: NONE AMMUNITION: Approximately 150 rounds (Minimum) YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape) REQUIREMENTS: Modern Defensive Pistol, Holster specifically made for that pistol and designed to be worn on the belt at the "strong side", 3 Magazines and One Magazine Pouch, A Belt of the same width as the belt loops for the holster and magazine pouches, Range Safety Gear (Eye protection and ear protection) LOCATION: Private Range 1818 Tarklin Valley Rd Knoxville, TN 37920 865-919-3909 NOTE: Private range easily accessible from Alcoa Highway and address is recognized by GPS systems. DIRECTIONS TO RANGE: From I-40, take US 129 / Alcoa Highway South approx 7 miles. Turn left and travel east on Singleton Station Road until end. From the south take US 129 / Alcoa Highway North, approx 1 mile past the I-140 interchange turn right onto Singleton Station Road until end. Turn L onto Will Mill Road, travel .2 miles Turn R onto Old Knoxville Highway / TN-33, travel . 2 miles Take first LEFT onto Martin Mill Pike, travel 5.2 miles Turn R onto Tarklin Valley Road, travel 1.3 miles Destination on the Right For more info and to register....http://www.suarezint...oxville-tn.aspx

Thank you Sir and yes, hopefully we will offer it again in the area. Hoping to see some TGOers in class!!!

Prag, if that class was in March of 2006 at a Judo dojo off of Alcoa Hwy then I was there.