Cruel Hand Luke

The reason the M14 still gets play is NOT because it is so awesome.....it is because it is what we HAVE in inventory in a 7.62x51 rifle. They had all those rifles (well, at least the ones left that Clinton did not have cut up) left over from when we phased them out , stored in supply depots like Anniston. When GWOT (Global War on Terror) kicked off we could either take those out of mothballs and use them or we could WAIT for a new gun to be built. They did what they always do...use what they have until a better solution presents itself.   Sorry guys,the M14 is an OK sniper rifle and a fine target rifle,  but the M14 was obsolete as a battle rifle before it was ever even fielded. It was about 20 years behind on technology when it was adopted. The only other rifle that was so short lived as the official US rifle as the M14 was the Krag Jorgenson...ANOTHER rifle we adopted that was obsolete before it ever saw combat. We have historically had this habit of providing weapons that would have rocked...in the LAST war we fought. The Krag would have been awesome....in the Civil War...and the M14 would have dominated WWII. But when they were adopted they were already old news and better things were available.

The short answer? An 11.5" is at most a 75 yard gun from a terminal ballistics standpoint with ball ammo. Yes...I said 75 YARDS.   You can increase that range with 70+ gr HP ammo but the 11.5" 5.56 is never going to do what a 16" or 20" gun will do. 

I'll fix that for you...SOME AR10Type rifles beat the ever loving .......     DPMS makes an AR 10.....Rock River makes an AR10...Armalite makes an AR10 ....NONE of them would I want to actually have to depend on to preserve life and limb. The one constant  with ARs is that you will definitely get what you pay for. Now if we are talking Sig 716 or SR 25 then I agree...but not ALL AR10s are built equally.

That is a BIG plus for those rifles. You can get about 5 G3 mags for every 1 FAL or M14 Mag. 

That one is apparently not a regularly offered item with DSA...so in that case...yes, you can OCCASIONALLY  find a DSA for $1499. They do occasionally have "for a limited time" models. A few years ago they had some guns built from used surplus IMBEL kits that were running $999 IIRC. Pretty sure AIM carrried the DSA IMBEL rifle too.  But it was a limited run and using surplus kits until they ran out of kits, not using the parts DSA is making.    There are places with $1500 dealer price on Sig 716s.

I'm actually working on an article on this subject right now. They all have pluses and minuses. They are all also relatively obsolete from a "modern" firearm perspective. That does NOT mean they are no good...it means they are 50 + year old designs and there are more modern tools available.   Also keep in mind that a REAL M14, FAL and G3 is NOT going to be what you buy now. Most all of them are different than the real ones. And the foreign made ones have to have enough US made parts to import them.   Springfield armory has been out of Mil Spec M14 parts since about 2002 . The M1A is mostly newly made MIM parts now.   The FALs can't be imported and FN stopped making them long ago. A pre ban FN is $3000 a pre ban Springfield SAR48 is $2000+.  The newly built ones that are available from DSA are US made receivers and most of the Mil Spec parts they got from Styer are drying up hence the steady climb in pricing. Or your other option is to buy a kit and a receiver (DSA or Coonan) and have someone assemble it....   And HK does not even build or import to the US the HK94 anymore and a pre ban HK made G3 clone will be $2500 and up. The paddle mag release is normally not found on the imported guns due to import restrictions and how ATF views HK machine guns (long story). So the push button mag release on the right side is how you get the mags out. Unfortunately this is the least ergonomic feature of the 3 rifles but there are places that can retrofit the paddle release to the gun if that is important to you .   So your options on a G3  is pretty much an HK preban import, a Springfield SAR3 (or 8) for about $ 1500 or a new gun from PTR. Their GI model is built with parts from Portugal on equipment acquired from Portugal with enough US parts to make it legal (Portugal made their own G3 licensed by HK ). I have a pre ban Portugal made FMP G3 and it is pretty much all you can realistically ask for in a battle rifle. (for full disclosure I also have 2 M1As and 2 FALs)   The M14 was already obsolete when it was adopted. It is essentially an updated Garand.  It is a fine target rifle and a decent fighting rifle but it is old school technology with a hunting rifle stock. The FAL was a better choice but we already had all the tooling to make Garands and M14. The FAL was a more modern rifle with pistol grip and more like what we expect now from a fighting rifle.  We actually "agreed" to take the FAL and adopt it (which was originally designed around a different cartridge) and we made the NATO countries take 7.62x51 as the cartridge for it and then backed out of the "deal" and started production of the M14. The G3 was produced by the Germans when the Belgians refused to allow them to produce FALs. The G3 was essentially a modified CETME from Spain designed by German designers who left Germany at the end of WWII . It used a pretty radically different operating system than the FAL or the M14. The G3 is as tough as a telephone pole but slightly less ergonomic than the FAL.    In 2013 the choices for a factory new rifle are pretty much either an M1A that is essentially a target rifle now with less than the most robust internal parts and magazines that run around $40 a piece, a DSA FAL that is getting really expensive (about $1800) or a kit gun, and Mags that run around $25-30, or a G3 from PTR (the GI model) that is built on the original Portuguese machinery, still reasonably priced (can be found just shy of $1000) and mags are $5 to $10.    If you want a modern .308 rifle that will easily mount optics (mounting optics was an afterthought on ALL 3 of the rifles) then the SIG 716 is a piston AR in 308 with flat top receiver and can be had for less than the new DSA. But if optics are not critical then any of the 3 will work....they are just not the SAME as the REAL ones.

Reminder, this one is coming up in just a few weeks.   Those of you in west TN , especially the Memphis area, this is a golden opportunity to get some world class training in not only pistol shooting, but in all things CCW related from dealing with people who approach you on the street,  pre assault indicators, pre fight tactics, accessing your pistol from concealment,  shooting on the move (while moving to not get hit, not just duck walking), integrating hand to hand and gun work, dealing with multiple assailants,  after action assessment , talking to the police, etc.    Come on out and train with us in Tunica (and hit the casino afterwards!)

OK, apparently it might have been TN vs Tracey C Clark....I found where the appellate court remanded it to the local court and said they should not have dismissed charges, but I cannot find anything after that.....     The one I'm looking for IIRC the defendant was convicted and the judge said essentially that IF he had shot the attacker the self defense claim would be valid but since he did not that it was not...anyone have info on that?

Hey, does anyone have a link to or the thread from here from a while back about a guy in TN who was carrying at a school baseball game, pulled his gun on a guy , then argued that the "safe harbor" portion of the law made the illegal carry irrelevant, but was convicted of the illegal carry and the judge said if he'd actually SHOT the guy that it would have covered it?    Anyone have any info on that???

Children SHOULD be able to walk the streets without fear of being accosted....by the same token a resident of a neighborhood SHOULD be able to ask an unfamiliar person who they are without fear of being physically attacked.     But a 5'11 165 lb 17 year old is FAR from a CHILD. I know because that is what size I was at 19 years old in college.  In fact...for context..."Marvelous" Marvin Hagler, Thomas "the hitman" Hearns and "Sugar Ray" Leonard all fought at that same weight in their boxing careers. So this is NOT some 100 lb 12 year old that they are trying to portray. It is a grown man. 

I'd be there too, but I'm teaching a rifle class in Kentucky at Knob Creek this weekend. 

Just a little reminder that this class is getting closer.    This class is the one where we deal with touching distance problems. Being aware and picking up on problems at 7 yards and getting a weapon in hand early is great but there is a completely different skillset involved when the bad guys are at arms length instead of a car length.   What do you do if they grab you? What do you do if they knock you to the ground? If you are mounted? How do you draw your gun if they are actively trying to prevent that? How do you work a disarm if they already have their gun out? These and a WHOLE LOT of other things will all be worked through in this class. And because it is an interactive class using airsoft guns, blue guns, training knives , etc you get to see what REALLY works against live resisting opponents....not just what works against a paper target!    This is the class for those who know that just because you have a gun does not mean you do not have to know how to fight. If your ONLY tool is to draw and shoot then your options are pretty limited. If you know how to create space when you need to or eliminate space when you need to and how to access your weapon while under attack and how to gain better position and get out of grounded problems and how to go about disarming an opponent then you will be far better off than if the sum total of your skills are to simply draw and shoot.    Looking forward to this one!

As it should be...You should not have to be afraid that defending yourself from unlawful physical violence will lead to bankruptcy.   The fact that in some states you could be absolved of any wrongdoing in the defense of yourself but then be sued is ridiculous. Good thing Florida (and Tennessee too) has that protection written into the law. 

This one is coming up soon..... This is the perfect class to start and experienced shooters will still learn a lot from it too. It is a complete presentation of mindset,awareness,and essential shooting skills and what happens after. It will not only teach you how to shoot, but also how to practice for likely self defense situations.  Hope to see you there!!!!

Not to kick anyone's pet goldfish, but the truth of the matter is that the most reliable 1911s are the full size ones.   Most of the chopped down ones that I have seen have some kind of issues . Now whether that was gun related, magazine related, or whether it was shooter induced, I do not know. Generally the people shooting these guns do not really want to discuss WHY their gun is not working, they are just angry that they spent that much money on the gun and it is not working.    I'm not saying ALL shortened 1911s are problematic. I'm saying that I see far more problems from compact 1911s than I see from full size ones. 

Welcome aboard from Ooltewah. 

  My own personal opinion is that the ability to arm and defend yourself is a basic human right not subject to government approval.........unfortunately the state of Tn does not agree with that and THEY are who will be prosecuting you if caught with a loaded and concealed gun.    You can build a house without getting a building permit too.....but that won't go well for you either.     As to whether someone who carries without a permit is a criminal....To clarify, I said that the powers that be tend to look at the armed person with no HCP as a criminal because since it is so easy to get one then why wouldn't you if you could legally? I have friends who work for local PD and they say THAT is the prevailing thought on the matter and as such if you get caught....you are going to get arrested. We may not LIKE that but reality is reality. Fire is hot whether we like it or not. My own personal feelings will not get me out of jail free and carrying without a permit is a game of Russian roulette....eventually you might get caught...so do what you want...just be prepared for the consequences.

No...Government rules are...."Be a Good Boy and Obey"   Big boy rules are "Do whatever you like...but be prepared to deal with the consequences if the worst happens".

And until something DOES happen ...nothing is going to happen.   Just because some other people drive around with a metric ton of marijuana, an unregistered machine gun and dead hookers  in THEIR car and never got caught does not mean it is a good idea for YOU to drive around with a metric ton of marijuana, an unregistered machine gun and dead hookers in YOUR car. It is still illegal and if you get caught with it the odds are absolutely overwhelming that you will end up with a criminal record and all the problems that brings with it.....    Having said that, just remember ...in the real world you are still free to do ANYTHING you want....but Big Boy Rules apply. ANYTHING you choose to do can be done....but there are consequences.    If you do it you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences...both the intended and unintended. Twenty years ago a cop in a rural area MIGHT give you the benefit of the doubt if found with a loaded gun and no permit.....but NOW, with the comparatively easy process to get "permission" from the state , anyone WITHOUT a permit carrying a loaded gun is looked at as a criminal first and will have a hard time avoiding the problems that come with that.    Do what you wish....but be prepared for the worst. 

July 20-21, 2013 ADVANCED RIFLE GUNFIGHTING Louisville, Kentucky Instructor: Randy Harris Price $450 Advanced Rifle Gunfighting is the most advanced level rifle training available outside of Special Operations schools. This class will consist of all new material and take your rifle fighting skills, both as a firearm and as an alternative force tool, far beyond what you would think possible. Not for Beginners. Students must own the basic combat rifle skill-set and be in reasonable physical condition for this class. If in doubt, attend the introductory class scheduled immediately before. This class will leave you gasping for air with a red-hot smoking rifle barrel.   DURATION: 2 Days TIME: 9:00AM to 5:00PM PREREQUISITES: Students must have attended an Intermediate SI rifle class (Or instructor approval)   AMMUNITION: RIFLE: Approx. 500 rounds (Minimum) PISTOL: Approx. 100 rounds (Minimum)   YOU NEED TO BRING: Spare clothing appropriate to the weather, lunch/snacks and water (minimum of 1 gallon per person) for the entire day, baseball or other style hat, sun screen, bug repellent, allergy medication (if needed), chair (if you have a problem with sitting on the ground, note taking paper/pen/pencil and a boo boo kit (band aids, gauze pads, antiseptic wipes, antibiotic ointment and tape)   REQUIREMENTS: A Military pattern rifle, (3) magazines and any ancillary rifle gear. Pistol, holster, pistol magazines, eye and ear protection. Note: Chest Rig/Tactical Vests are not allowed with CCW Holsters.  If you wish to use a Chest Rig or a Tactical Vest, use a vest mounted holster or a thigh holster.   LOCATION: Knob Creek Range 690 Ritchey Lane West Point, KY 40177 502-819-8515 Web: http://www.machinegunshoot.com/ World Famous Knob Creek Range!   DIRECTIONS TO RANGE: Coming North from TN * Head north on I-65 N * Take exit 117 for KY-44 toward Mt. Washington/Shepherdsville * Turn left at KY-44 W/E 4th Street * Continue to follow KY-44 W * Destination will be on the left - 12.4 miles Coming South from IN * Head south on I-65 S toward exit 125 * Take exit 125 to merge onto KY-841 W/Gene Snyder Fwy * Take exit 1 for US-31W/US-60 toward Fort Knox/Louisville * Keep left at the fork, follow signs for Fort Knox * Turn left at US-60 W * Turn left at KY-44 E/Stites Station Road * Continue to follow KY-44 E * Destination will be on the right NEARBY HOTELS: Jameson Inn Airport 6515 Signature Drive Louisville, KY 40213 502-968-4100 Comfort Suites Airport 6535 Paramount Park Drive Louisville, KY 40213 502-964-0740   CLOSEST AIRPORT: Louisville International (SDF)  

I kind of guessed that from your avatar..... :pleased:

As Prag mentioned, shooting the "car stages" were my favorite too.   Of course the stage shooting FROM the car was fun, but I also liked the other one where you simply turned and engaged the 2 targets who "approached while you were working on the car".   I'm one of those weirdos who actually prefer simple, quick ,realistic stages where you might engage 1 or 2 or MAYBE 3 guys instead of the "Rescue the President from the embassy that is under attack" stages where you have 9 targets and multiple rooms...... I'm not saying they should ALL be single target stages, but those are a bit more realistic.

For that matter, under IDPA rules I cannot even compete carrying my pistol the way I do in everyday life. AIWB (Appendix IWB) is not allowed so when I shoot IDPA matches I have to run my gun in a position that is not even how I carry it... same with my mag pouch. I wear it in front of my hip not behind it so I have to readjust that too to be in compliance with the rules....   But that is OK....I just have to work around it. I still shoot with a closed front cover garment (like I carry)  from an IWB holster (like I carry) , I just run it and my mag pouch around to where it is IDPA legal. I'd rather roll the way I do on the street, but that is not IDPA legal....but that is OK....since it is a game. 

Well I guess as long as no one ELSE can move behind cover then it is still an even playing field....which is what they strive for...in a game...And no matter how "more" tactical IDPA is than IPSC it is still ...just a game. And games have rules.     IDPA is a test of one's shooting and gun handling ability under the stress of a timer and peer witness set in the backdrop of somewhat realistic shooting problems where you carry guns the same way that some people carry them on the street. That is all it is. The difference between it and any other game are simply the rules.    Is IDPA truly "tactical"? No. Is it "training"? No...but sadly some do not know the difference and use it as such. Again , it is a test of accuracy and gun handling skills in a setting that somewhat replicates some possible street scenarios.    So I just look at as whether I'm able to solve the problem that has been set forth faster than the other competitors....with no illusions that what we are doing is how I would REALLY do it on the street. SOME stages can come close but most do not.   The stages that run like ...."You are standing at the ATM machine....at buzzer turn to your right and engage the metal knockdown target 6 yards away without hitting the NO shoot at 4 yards"....are far more realistic than any 18 shot  9 target stage. But it is still not "real" as no one moves or shoots back and running away (which is a viable answer most of the time on the street) is never an option.    So I guess what I'm saying is that since I just look at the matches as a fun break from more realistic training pursuits I do not feel the sense of anger that some do over some of the seemingly arbitrary rules. I get that it is a game and as such as long as EVERYONE has to deal with the same arbitrary rules then it is "even" for everyone and still a test of shooting and gun handling skills. 

Price is $450.