Cruel Hand Luke

There were 9 participants and I know at least one TGO member attended...I'll see if I can convince him to write a review...   The training group is a regular thing that we do maybe 4 times a year. This particular subject matter will probably be covered again at some point in the future. 

This one is coming up tomorrow!

TWO WEEKS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  They COULD argue you are the devil incarnate and provide a priest  as their expert witness......but they PROBABLY won't......anyone can argue anything. But I have yet to see a case where someone's skill at arms or their training got them convicted.  "After all Mr Prosecutor, are we not MANDATED by the STATE to receive training to get a permit? Isn't it true that the state will not issue a permit to someone who refuses to take the training class? So then the state is ENDORSING getting properly trained?  Is it not then the conscientious thing to do if we are going to be armed to be as well qualified as we can be?" You cannot prevent every argument, but you can prepare yourself for them well in advance.     And if you are smart all that info about your training will get in without YOU having to be subjected to cross examination. Look at the Zimmerman case...he never HAD to answer any cross examination questions. That is what GOOD lawyers do..... 

True...it really does not matter for someone who is just now applying because they no longer record what gun you used in the HCP class ...so this really is just an academic exercise. 

A little more notice and I might try to make it next time...

The way you'd say that someone who went to driving school was learning to be a safer driver. Or how police receive training regularly. The same criminals they train to apprehend are the ones that they are apprehending for robbing,raping or killing us..... "being better prepared is a bad thing " is going to be a tough arguement for the other side to win if your attorney has half a clue.   EVERYTHING can be answered. And it is largely a matter of WHOSE expert witnesses are believed by the jury.....and a matter of limiting the possibility of those arguments before hand. 

  And the possible civil case later? The extra layer of protection is simply that...an extra precaution you take now so that the other side cannot make that specific argument because you already have that base covered. A jury in a civil case MAY look at the subcompact .45 you carried vs the .22 target pistol you qualified with and say you missed the BG an dhit the bystander because you were reckless and were carrying a "powerful gun"  you were not even "qualified" to carry...I know it may sound ridiculous....but that can be reality sometimes.   George Zimmerman hit his target in a JUSTIFIED SHOOTING...would you like to trade places with him for the last 2 years? Do a google search for "Larry Hickey". His was a justified shooting....yet he spent a hellish 2 years before it was all over. And though Zimmerman was eventually acquitted,  going into it we ALL thought he might still go to jail. Things are not ALWAYS "cut and dried" self defense and even if it IS....just like Zimmerman, you might find yourself wishing you had every POSSIBLE base covered if it goes to trial. Also look at Harold Fish and how the KIND of gun and ammo you use can be used against you sometimes. His conviction was not BECAUSE of the gun, but they still brought it up and he his attorneys had to deal with it. Again, we do not control what they will try to argue...we can just try to prepare for it in advance. Something as simple as qualifying  with an actual carry gun vs a .22 target pistol seems a pretty simple thing to eliminate ONE possible argument later.   But apparently you know more than the attorneys and expert witnesses who DO THIS FOR A LIVING. As for me , it does not effect me in the least what gun you or anyone else uses to qualify with. I merely passed on some info that someone out there who was reading along might appreciate from someone who has been in the training industry for a while. But as I said , whether anyone chooses to take advice I give or not will not effect ME if THEY go to court for a shooting they are involved in.

Some people travel to other states legally armed . Some people get into shootings away from home. It may not be a court IN Tn. Again...I said this MIGHT be an issue.  I didn't say it WILL be an issue. It is just 1 more layer of protection. 

I understand what you are saying. I myself do not carry the same Glock 27 that I used to qualify with 16 years ago.....the point is that no one can argue that I am not "capable" with the Glock 17 I am currently carrying because I "only" qualified with a .22. 

The "pro" side to using your actual carry gun is that it is an extra layer of protection in a court case. It would show that you were able to qualify with the gun you actually carry which COULD be a good thing later on if anything goes to court.   If you use a .22 target pistol to qualify with yet you go about carrying a .44 snubby it MIGHT be argued against you that you were reckless and carried a gun you had not proven you could handle...is it ridiculous...yes...but sometimes courtroom arguments ARE ridiculous....now that argument is most likely to come up if you hit something you did not intend to hit....but honestly...if someone can't pass a qualification as simple as the TN HCP test WITH their carry gun...then they might not need to be carrying THAT particular gun. 

For those who know about it and those who do not, Suarez International Instructors offer several times a year Regional Training Groups. We offer 1 day practice sessions to come out and work some of the skills that were taught in the Suarez classes under the eye of an instructor/coach. We normally advertise these on Warriortalk, but I know several people here have been to Suarez Int classes but are not regular members of Warriortalk. As such I thought they might appreciate a heads up.    So what are we doing?  This is a full day of empty hand skills. No crouching tiger hidden dragon silliness, just good solid old school combatives combined with some modern influence and geared toward the street not the octagon. The class is priced accordingly and there is a hefty discount for anyone who is signed up for the Zero To Five class Aug 31-Sep 1 http://www.suarezinternationalstore....anooga-tn.aspx  Students should be in reasonable physical condition....you don't have to be a cross fit instructor, you just have to be in good enough condition to do one of our pistol classes.  TITLE- "Stayin' Alive" - Empty Hand Combatives in a Weapons Based Environment DATE- August 24  TIME- 9AM- 4PM (CENTRAL TIME AT THE RANGE) LOCATION- Phillips Edwards Farm 763 County Rd 332 Pisgah Alabama 35765 (the usual place) You can email or PM me here for directions....the range is 40 minutes from downtown Chattanooga. PRICE- $100 (ONLY $50 if you are signed up for the Zero to Five Aug 31-Sep 1 ) Just bring check or cash to the Training Group.  AMMO - 50 rounds...this class is all empty hand techniques and transitioning to weapons but there is a little live fire to tie it all together.  EQUIPMENT NEEDED- Pistol , holster, Blue gun or Airsoft pistol (I do have loaners if your holster will work with a full size glock), Paintball mask or at a MINIMUM shooting glasses - getting poked in the eye sucks... OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT- mouthpiece and cup. Seriously, no one likes getting hit in the junk. A cup is a good investment . Training knife if you want to bring one. Focus pads-if you have 'em bring 'em. ANY kind of personal padding you want to bring.  This is NOT an MMA class. This is NOT a traditional martial arts class. This is a combatives class based on dealing with criminal assault initially with empty hands and bridging to weapons if needed. This is an awesome primer for our Zero To Five class.  The reason we are offering this is that when polled on what they want to work on the training group students say they'd like to do a combatives class. It makes sense. You cannot carry a gun everywhere...but you carry hands, feet, elbows and knees every where you go. Also you cannot just shoot everyone who hits you. And sometimes gunfights and knife fights start as fistfights and usually start before you get a weapon in hand. If all you have in the tool box is to stand and shoot ..well...good luck with that.  Hope to see you there!!!!!!!   Email me at cruelhandluke2000@yahoo.com or PM me here at TGO for more info.

Welcome aboard from Ooltewah!

This one is just a little over 2 weeks out!    This class is not offered very often so don't miss this chance to get it in the Chattanooga area. With all the publicity of the Zimmerman trial and all the discussion of when an unarmed person becomes a lethal threat and how to deal with physical assault when you are carrying a gun this class is more timely than ever. Looking forward to seeing you there!

Gonna be out of town but I'll be there in spirit.....

This one is getting closer every day.....

I think we can all agree that McCain deserves the appropriate respect for his service.....having said that, some of the things he says and does (while wearing the mantle of the Republican party -and ostensibly the CONSERVATIVE side) might make one think back to the Manchurian Candidate....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate where the "conservative" candidate is really controlled by communists.    NO...I'm Not saying he's Raymond Shaw and he's going to assassinate anyone....let's be clear about that. It is not a 1 for 1 comparison to the movie or book .If anything he'd be more like a combination of Raymond Shaw and vice presidential candidate John Iselin. Shaw was an unwitting brainwashed pawn and Iselin was the "Manchurian Candidate" who would "for the sake of our safety" would use his power to usher in communist rule in the USA.     I'm saying it sometimes makes you  wonder at the things McCain says that are a bit far left which side he REALLY is on ....

And there are a ton of used Gen 2s out there that can be had.....

This one is getting closer everyday...ONE month to go!

THIS ONE IS COMING UP IN ABOUT A MONTH!!!! THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS CLASS HAS BEEN OFFERED IN THE CHATTANOOGA AREA. THIS CLASS IS NOT OFFERED MORE THAN ONCE A YEAR IN ANY PARTICULAR REGION. SO IF YOU ARE AT ALL INTERESTED IN GETTING THIS CLASS DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY! THIS CLASS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER SHOOTING CLASS. THIS IS THE CLASS WHERE WE DEAL WITH THE REALITIES OF THE FIGHT, ACTION VS REACTION, AND ACCESSING YOUR WEAPON ALL AT CONVERSATION DISTANCE WHILE UNDER ATTACK AND WE DO IT AGAINST LIVE RESISTING OPPONENTS , NOT JUST AGAINST MOTIONLESS CARDBOARD. wE DO THIS BOTH STANDING, AND ON THE GROUND. THE AMMO COUNT FOR THIS CLASS IS COMPARATIVELY SMALL TO OTHER CLASSES SO BEING ABLE TO FIND ENOUGH AMMO SHOULD NOT BE A BIG PROBLEM. IN FACT PART OF THE VALUE OF THIS CLASS IS NOT ONLY THE LOWER AMMO COUNT, BUT THE FACT THAT 75 % OF THE CLASS IS SPENT WORKING AGAINST LIVE OPPONENTS...JUST LIKE REAL FIGHTS. CARDBOARD NEVER KILLED ANYONE. LIVE OPPONENTS ARE WHAT WE FACE IN REAL FIGHTS , SO LEARNING (AND TESTING) HOW TO DEAL WITH THEM IS FAR MORE CONSTRUCTIVE THAN JUST SHOOTING PAPER TARGETS. WHAT IF THEY ARE TOO CLOSE TO OUTDRAW THEM? WE LOOK AT DISARMS AND HOW TO MINIMIZE OUR RISK AND MAXIMIZE THE DAMAGE TO THEM AS WE TAKE THEIR PISTOL FROM THEM. AND AGAIN, ALL OF THIS IS DONE AGAINST A RESISTING OPPONENT NOT AGAINST ONE WHO IS "ATTACKING YOU THE RIGHT WAY". IF THESE ARE THE SKILLS YOU ARE WANTING TO DEVELOP THEN THIS CLASS IS THE ONE YOU WANT. ANYONE CAN GO SHOOT PAPER AND CARDBOARD ANYWHERE. THERE ARE NOT ALL THAT MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO WORK AGAINST LIVE OPPONENTS WITH AIRSOFT GUNS AND TRAINING KNIVES AND LEARN HOW FAST FIGHTS REALLY HAPPEN AND HOW TO USE ALL OF THE KNOWLEDGE WE GIVE YOU TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. WE THEN TAKE ALL OF THIS AND APPLY IT IN LIVE FIRE AGAINST PAPER TARGETS AND AGAINST REALISTIC REACTIVE TARGETS SO YOU CAN SEE THAT ALL THAT SHOOTING ON THE MOVE, SHOOTING IN CONTACT WITH THE OPPONENT, SHOOTING WHILE ON YOUR BACK, SHOOTING WHILE GETTING UP ALL WORK WITH LIVE GUNS JUST LIKE WITH AIRSOFT (JUST A BIT LOUDER) IF THIS SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THEN GET SIGNED UP. AND IF YOU HAVE A PHYSICAL LIMITATION, WE ARE ABLE TO WORK AROUND THAT TOO. IT IS BETTER TO FIND OUT IN A CLASS LIKE THIS EXACTLY WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH THAT LIMITATION THAN TO HAVE TO EXPERIMENT WITH IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A REAL FIGHT. WE HAVE HAD STUDENTS WITH A PHYSICAL LIMITATION OR A PREEXISTING INJURY THAT PRECLUDED THEM FROM DOING SOME THINGS, BUT WE WORKED AROUND IT AS BEST WE COULD. SO DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU. IF THERE IS ANYTHING IN THE CLASS YOU CANNOT DO, YOU CAN STILL LEARN A LOT FROM OBSERVING. WE DO NOT MAKE ANYONE DO ANYTHING THEY ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH.AND WE USUALLY FIND A WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, EVEN WITH THE LIMITATION. SO IF LIFESAVING MATERIAL FOR THE FIGHT AT LESS THAN 3 YARDS IS WHAT YOU WANT...THIS CLASS IS THE PLACE TO GET IT. hOPE TO SEE YOU THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Due to unforeseen, unpredictable and unavoidable circumstances we are going to be rescheduling this class for the weekend of October 19-20 . On the positive side the weather should be a little less stifling in October than in August and it gives you guys and gals a couple of months to get your ammo.    

The 7.62 loses less velocity when shortened. The difference in velocity between my AKM and AK104, is less than 100FPS. Then stepping down to the 107UR is again less than 100 feet more. I lose more than that when I go from AK74 down to the AK74SU. All of them will still work, but their useful ranges are cut dramatically more so for the 5.45 than the 7.62x39.    If you are just using it to punch paper then a 5.45 with an 8" barrel has plenty of horsepower to punch holes in paper and cardboard at 100 yards....but when the targets are people that are trying to kill you and the rounds need to reliably penetrate clothing and skin and muscle and go deep enough to hit vital organs then the 5.45 is not your best choice. In fact the 5.45 and 5.56 SBR length guns are really about 75 yard guns.  I'm not saying they don't still hurt past 75...I'm saying what they will do at 100 is NOTHING like what they do at 25.    On the other hand the 7.62 really does not lose much velocity. As such it really does not perform much different at 100 out of a 16" than it does out of a 12". The 8.5" 7.62 loses a little more, but you still have a bullet likely to penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs. The 5.45 out of an 8.5" barrel may or may not......

Look at Dale Fricke (http://dalefrickeholsters.com/)   I carry a G17 99.9% of the time and I carry it IWB. I normally carry it in a customized Fricke Archangel that has been modified with 2 sets of holes to adjust the cant any way I want it. The archangel normally comes set up for straight up and down carry only. The new holster called the Nehemiah is set up for standard FBI cant. 

One major problem is that the people on the jury probably will have had little to no experience with violence and will be basing their decisions on things they think they know from movies and TV.  Hence the old..."you shouldn't have shot him, he "just had a knife"...or "you can't shoot unarmed people".     Keep in mind also that Trayvon Martin was the same size as Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler and Sugar Ray Leonard.....they all fought at the same weight Martin was. I was 5'11 165 lbs my sophomore and junior years in COLLEGE...so Martin may have only been 17...but he was already a grown man physically. And if that individual is using your head to beat a hole in the pavement you ABSOLUTELY are justified in shooting them, stabbing them, doing WHATEVER it takes to MAKE them stop. 

This one is coming up next week!!!