Cruel Hand Luke

What exactly are you saying here? He's proposing changing law so that if you aren't charged in a shooting incident, also can't be sued. - OS How would that differ from TCA 39-11-622 ?

And those that it does not affect in any way simply yawn and move on......

What exactly are you saying here?

Thanks to those who came out!I will be putting the Christmas Training Day Extravaganza listing up in next few days.

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't....some GPSs go right to it and others get confused. If you want to follow me in the morning you are welcome to do so. Just let me know.

Now THAT'S funny......

TCA 39-17-1308 speaks to possession... not to use.....it merely gives the affirmative defenses for possession...not anything about use. 39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. I'm not an attorney and I'm guessing your instructor probably wasn't either. So you might want to get a second opinion from an actual attorney . After all he is going to be the one explaining why you were using a club against an unarmed opponent if you get arrested. Barring some disparity of force issue (big strong young guy vs old small, weak guy or multiple assailants) a civilian still can't use a weapon against an unarmed opponent....that is technically aggravated assault. Pepper Spray and Tasers are viewed differently as they are not considered lethal force. The certification is not an "its all OK now " card. It does not change the way the law looks at civilian use of force vs police use of force. While police can use a club to gain pain compliance civilians are held to a different standard. And while a cop CAN use a club on someone who punches him You as a civilian can still ONLY respond with a commensurate amount of force. The certification card merely gives you an affirmative defense to carrying that deadly weapon (club) on your person in public . You will still have to use it within parameters of established state law and still have to explain why a reasonable person (who is not a cop) thought he needed to use a weapon against an unarmed opponent...and possibly explain it in front of a jury.

The way I read it was the fault lines were for standards stages only....see 6.3.1 So apparently a "Fault Line" and a "visual reference line" are 2 different things.....

I carried a 16" ASP when I worked the door at a music club in college. If I carry an impact weapon now it is either a sap or blackjack. While the ASP looks bad ass while being deployed (and in my own experience that HAS stopped more than one fight before it got started) it does not hit nearly as hard as a sap or a jack when you actually have to use it. And a sap or a jack tends to work better in entangled fights where there is not much room to "wind up". And if you hit people where it will be effective then you are using that baton as a deadly force tool....and that brings up the simple truth that no one wants to hear.... In TN a civilian can only use equal force under the law. A police officer is NOT bound by that. So while a police officer can legally beat your ass with a metal rod (baton) to get control of you in order to cuff you , a civilian would have to be in legitimate fear of grave bodily injury or death to use a baton. IF you actually ARE in fear of grave bodily injury or death then your firearm is the better solution 95+% of the time. When is that 5% you ask? When I'm involved with a contact distance problem that would preclude me cleanly introducing the gun into the situation without it getting grabbed or getting my draw fouled. If I'm in a tangle (clinch) with dude or dudes trying to kill me then I need to be very careful about introducing the gun. Yes I know Zimmerman got his gun out under pressure but that was as much blind luck on his part as any real skill and he could just as easily have been disarmed and murdered. In this situation a baton would likely be just short of useless as you would be unlikely to get it opened and not have the distance to make the strikes hit hard enough to do enough damage to change their channel. At that distance interval the baton will likely have to be used in the closed position to strike with to then make enough space to fully deploy it...and good luck with that it it is 2 or 3 on one. We can make a good argument here that a blade (or any sharp pointy thing) would be better at less than 1 arms length at getting people to let go of you. So if we then accept that the baton (which under TN law is a "club" ) is a deadly force weapon, (just like a gun or knife) then we cannot legally employ it unless in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death.....and if we ARE in fact in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death then the gun you carry is probably a better option than the baton. Just like you can't "Shoot them just a little" and it not be deadly force, or "stab them just a little" and that not be deadly force the law says you can't "hit them just a little" with a club and it not be deadly force either. Now, we MIGHT be able to make the argument that if it was used 100% within the parameters that the certifying company or agency that certified you to use the baton (in my case Monadnok) teaches as less lethal usage to make them comply, without striking anywhere that might be viewed as potentially causing permanent injury (yellow zones ) or any lethal area (red zones), then you MIGHT be able to argue your way out of that epic beat down you put on someone with an impact weapon....as long as they were employing lethal force against you to begin with. Hope your attorney has some experience with this.... But again, the state views the mere interjection of your club as deadly force and unless the other guy was using lethal force against you, then it probably will not go well for you in court. Ok so what about multiple assailants? How about using a baton against them since that would be lethal force due to disparity of force ? Why would you pull a baton and try to fight multiple assailants with an impact weapon when you would already be justified to pull a gun, use it from distance so as to not get entangled with them and be more likely to survive unscathed? OK well what if I don't have a gun? What if I am somewhere that does not allow firearms? Tell me where you can legally carry an impact weapon that you could not legally carry a gun? Think about it....those "No weapons" signs mean NO WEAPONS not just no guns and whether you use a baton or a gun it is all the same. There is a reason "clubs" are prohibited from being carried under state law UNLESS you have been certified in their use. Carrying with a certification is an affirmative defense...not a "not get arrested" card. The only exception on this is if you pick up an improvised "club" and use it but we were discussing BYOC "bringing your own club". Having said that , if you want to avail yourself of your right to get certified and carry an impact weapon, do so, but just be aware that civilians operate under different rules than cops with regards to using impact weapons. No lethal force used against you, no club for you. Again, cops use 'em because under state law they can use ANY and ALL force required to take people into custody....civilians can only use a commensurate amount of force to the force being used against them to repel the unlawful attack. So if even legally using a club requires that lethal force is first being used against you, then the club might not be the most appropriate tool to employ......

REMINDER!!!! This is coming up THIS SATURDAY!!!

TN / GA / AL Training Group Subject: Pistol Sniping - Short range precision and long range performance. On Saturday Nov 19 we will hold our November meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Suarez Int Training Group! (Everyone is welcome) Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy HarrisLocation: The usual place- Phillips/Edwards Farm 763 County Rd 332 Pisgah AL 35765 Time: 9AM CENTRAL time - 3PM CENTRAL timePrice: $60 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol, pistol magazines and at least 150 rounds of ammo. Revolvers are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. We will work on smoothing out our pistol skills and will shoot several challenging drills (like the challenging Military 221- Excellence in Competition Match ) and work to be more competent and confident with the weapon we carry most...our pistol. Rifles are awesome but they are not always close by. The pistol is far more likely to be the weapon you will have in hand be it robbery, terrorism or whatever. This will give participants a chance to shoot some timed and scored drills and get a feel for where their skill level is and see where they can improve especially at distance. Looking forward to seeing you there!

I'd like to say a big thanks to those who came out and participated and I hope to see you all in class again sometime!

ONE WEEK TO GO!!! it is widely known that the majority of defensive shootings take place in low light conditions. But how often do you actually get to practice in those conditions? And better yet how often do you have the opportunity to actually learn how to best use those conditions to your benefit ? We still have spots available. Hope to see you Saturday night!

8 SPOTS LEFT AS OF TODAY!

TWO WEEKS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would be interesting to see if the gun was stolen......

If you target the 5% of serious criminals that commit 95% of the violent crime and either kill them or lock them away then your problem largely solves itself. Unfortunately too many interest groups need those people committing the crime to keep said interest groups relevant.

This one is coming up in ONE MONTH!!!! This is the chance to take your red dot pistol and run it in almost every conceivable situation and see just where and how it magnifies your abilities and how to get the most out of it. Things can be done with a red dot pistol that are much more difficult with iron sights. Come out and learn with us and push your skills to the next level!

The ironic thing is that there are those who support him and/or his party that buy guns too...in fear that he and/or his party might make it so that they may not be able to get them later.....

A wise policy. Like I said, it might not have applied to you specifically and it is possible they have a "random metric" for picking folks ...you may have just gotten randomly picked twice.

Just curious....did you have a knife on you at the time? I'm curious as to their reaction to someone with a pocket knife on them when they get them to go through the metal detectors....

The guys that got screened had a certain "look"? Hmmmm imagine that. If you roll into the Magic Kingdom looking like you just got off the plane from Bagram Airfield then yes you are going to draw attention to yourself...just like if you were wearing a shemagh. I see it all the time. The dudes who look all "hard" are the ones who draw the eye of Mordor to them. I do my best "fat, dumb and happy" impersonation, smile and look like I am happy to be there when going into the park (or anywhere) and no one even gives me a second look. You can be "aware" and be "switched on" without your body language screaming "look at me I'm a bad ass!". If you want to avoid any unpleasant imperial entanglements your body language should say "nothing to see here". Not saying this was necessarily the case with cmsmith, but like Gotthegoods mentions, those who do not blend in with the crowd draw extra attention form security people no matter the venue. On the other hand....for all we know Disney may just simply have a certain random denominator for extra screening.

We go about once a year. Last time was in early February. I saw no "wanding" or metal detectors at the Magic Kingdom even though they were supposedly already in use at that point. I just carried my normal edc knife which no one saw and I had no issues. Like I said I did not see ANY magnetometers or wanding at that point. We stayed at Art of Animation and there were no "checkpoints" or anything and no "No Weapons" signs...but again that has been since February. I normally carry when not in the parks...because I normally carry in every day life everywhere that does not involve a metal detector. I might have carried firearms in the parks in the past, but I normally do not and have not felt the need to. I've not been so much afraid of getting jacked while in the parks, as something happening going to and from. Carrying in the parks has been historically doable (concealed means concealed) and there were no metal detectors, but the Disney parks probably have more on site plain clothed security and cameras being monitored than anywhere else in the world.

10 spots left as of today.

11 Spots available as of now.