Cruel Hand Luke

This shooting was from back in 2008 and I have referenced it a few time in class. I prefer to look at the Gramins shootout https://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/ as another instance of sometimes the bad guy is not a candy ass pansy who will run at the sight of your gun but sometimes will be a "card carrying bad ass" who you will have to disassemble internally to stop him. The folks who say that you don't NEED to be able to shoot well and that "any hit anywhere on him will probably stop him" should see from this that if Gramins were not a good enough shooter to score THREE head shots that he might not have survived. If people want to fault his marksmanship they need to remember that he fired the initial 13 rounds through the windshield while he was actively being shot at and some other misses came from when he was trying to skip rounds under the car at his assailant. I think his marksmanship was just fine based on the 3 head shots he scored once he was able to get out of the vehicle, get behind cover and get a good sight picture. And we need to remember that when some of us preach the need for marksmanship better than "minute of felon" this is why. The better you can shoot the better you can shoot no matter the circumstance. And when there is a degradation of ability due to stress you are still performing at a higher level than the less skilled shooter. If you start at the top of the mountain and fall 25% of the way down you are still 75% up the mountain. When you start at 25% of the way up and fall 25% down you are in a crumpled heap at the bottom of the mountain.

On Saturday JUNE 27 we will hold our June meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Suarez Int Training Group ! NEW FOLKS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME ! For those in Knoxville or anywhere north of Chattanooga this will be closer for you than the Ga or AL locations. Subject : Rifle and Pistol Skills and Drills Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy Harris Location: The Ridge 11534 Rhea County Hwy (HWY 27) Dayton TN 37321 (phone #423 605 4242) From downtown Chattanooga it is just straight up hwy 27 through Dayton and look for a big orange Glock on top of a mailbox on the right. It is approximately 2 miles north from the Rhea County Medical Center. Time: 9AM EASTERN time - 3PM EASTERN time Price: $80 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol with at least 3 pistol magazines and at least 150 rounds of ammo. Revolvers (with 3 speed loaders) are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. Also you will need a RIFLE with at least 3 rifle magazines, a way to carry the 2 spare rifle mags on your person and bring at least 100 rounds of ammo for the rifle. Hope to see you there!!!

On Saturday JUNE 27 we will hold our June meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Suarez Int Training Group ! NEW FOLKS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME ! For those in Knoxville or anywhere north of Chattanooga this will be closer for you than the Ga or AL locations. Subject : Rifle and Pistol Skills and Drills Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy Harris Location: The Ridge 11534 Rhea County Hwy (HWY 27) Dayton TN 37321 (phone #423 605 4242) From downtown Chattanooga it is just straight up hwy 27 through Dayton and look for a big orange Glock on top of a mailbox on the right. It is approximately 2 miles north from the Rhea County Medical Center. Time: 9AM EASTERN time - 3PM EASTERN time Price: $80 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol with at least 3 pistol magazines and at least 150 rounds of ammo. Revolvers (with 3 speed loaders) are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. Also you will need a RIFLE with at least 3 rifle magazines, a way to carry the 2 spare rifle mags on your person and bring at least 100 rounds of ammo for the rifle. Hope to see you there!!!

Upon further review I think I might have misread the intent of the OP's friend's question.... So this question to Luke9511 , WHY exactly does your friend suggest they aim for arms legs and head? I apparently missed the head part and that does kind of change the dynamic. If he's willing to have them shoot for the head then his question is probably not coming from a "lets not hurt them" place. But not knowing WHY he is suggesting this course of action makes answering your question more difficult. There is a line of thinking that goes "the bad guys are likely to be wearing armor so we skip the thorax altogether and aim for pelvis or head to start with. That line of logic and the folks that are practicing that as "plan A" are NOT coming from the "police dealing with average street crimes pool". This is from folks who are more likely to A. be using long guns as primary weapons, B. to be engaging folks that are also armed with rifles and heavier weapons working in groups and B. engaging folks often with business affiliation with freelance pharmaceutical distribution from south of the US border. Another group that practices going straight to pelvis or head is one that guards political VIP types and for whom a major threat profile is armor wearing folks. Again, not the average street cop concerns or mission profile. And frankly if your friend saw the overwhelming majority of cops shoot he'd probably change his mind and say "shoot at the biggest thing you can shoot at ...from as CLOSE to it as you can get....."

One of the biggest disservices done to new shooters and non shooters by ignorant gun salesmen is recommending the tiniest, hardest kicking , hardest to shoot accurately gun in the store because" it does not weigh too much for the little lady and it will fit in your purse" and usually when recommending a J frame it is "simple to operate and not as difficult to use as an automatic"..... You know what's NOT simple to operate? A car. And virtually all of these people can figure out how to get in the car, stick a key in the ignition, put it in gear, back it out of their drive way, use a turn signal (sometimes....) turn the wheel and apply the accelerator to move the car up and down the road, maintain a steady speed, apply pressure to the break to make it stop when they need to and check their mirrors when changing lanes. So even though their wife/mother/girlfriend/whatever somehow manages to move their one ton motor vehicle to and from work, the mall and church with monotonous regularity (often while texting and reading facebook at the same time) and they probably drove a car TO THE STORE they are apparently too stupid to operate a midsize semi auto pistol? REALLY? Buyer beware. Salesmen are good at what? Selling . And more times than not the experience level of those manning the gun counter and pertinent relevant experience with the products is not much more than the experience of the customer.

If you didn't feel you were in enough danger to shoot them in the chest then you were not in enough danger to shoot them PERIOD. Lethal force is LETHAL force and shooting someone a LITTLE is just like shooting them a lot. Once the gun comes out and goes BANG everything changes. Its not just for funsies anymore.....And what happens when you try to play Lone Ranger and shoot dude in the gun hand and the bullet ricochets off his gun and into his carotid artery? Or you shoot dude in the leg because you "don't want to hurt him" and you hit him square in the femoral artery and he bleeds out in 60 seconds? Now what? Oooops? "Sorry, my bad"...? There is a reason that virtually all police departments including the FBI dropped "shooting to wound" as a strategy a half century ago. And the only people that argue for it is people who have ZERO experience with, or education in violence. So they should probably hop on their unicorn and ride it over the rainbow and stop making ignorant suggestions about things they have no idea about.

As others have said..."It really depends". It depends on how much you want to spend. Are you looking to spend $1250? $750 ? $450 ? $350 ? A decent to good to excellent quality 9mm can be had depending on what you are willing to spend. It depends on how big a gun you are looking to carry. There is a big difference between a Kahr CM9 and a Beretta 92 or a Glock 34. Some of us actually carry full sized guns like Glock 17s and 34s on a daily basis but those of us that do that are far from the typical gun carrier. Most people are interested in carrying a gun that is "easy to carry". I'm interested in carrying a gun that is easy to fight with. A fire extinguisher that only puts out tiny camp fires is a not the best thing to have when the house is burning down..... It also depends on what type of action you prefer. Striker fired with polymer frame? That's going to get you in the game at a lower price. A 1911 that has been "tricked out" ? A LOT more expensive. Traditional DA/SA? More expensive than the Striker fired gun but less than the 1911. It also to some degree depends on your skill level. If you are a new shooter you might not be capable of doing your best work with a tiny gun. For that matter most seasoned shooters are going to shoot a mid sized or compact pistol much better than a subcompact. A new shooter and a Beretta Nano was a recipe for frustration in a class I taught several years ago. Tiny guns are easier to carry but much harder to shoot well especially at speed under stress. On the other hand if you have won the Back Up Gun division at a regional IDPA match then you probably aren't going to lose a fight because you can't shoot your Glock 43 well enough.... but again those guys are not the typical gun carrier either. Again, it all depends.

Thanks for the review TripleGGG. As an instructor we of course want to see the improvements in the student’s shooting skills. But as anyone who trains with me knows, skill without mindset and skill without the ability to read the signs of impending criminal assault and skill without the education to make faster decisions does little to help you. The best shooter in the world will lose every time if the fight starts before he realizes a fight is about to happen. And all the shooting skill in the world is useless if you don’t actually carry your gun with you. So when students tell me the class improved their confidence and their shooting, changed their mindset, made them more aware of their surroundings, and has them carrying more often it puts a huge smile on my face. Hope to see you guys again in class !

On Saturday May 23 we will hold our Memorial Day Quarantine Escape meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Suarez Int Training Group ! Subject : Rifle and Pistol Skills and Drills Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy Harris Location: The Regular place - 763 CR 332 Pisgah Al 35765 Time: 9AM CENTRAL time - 3PM CENTRAL time Price: $80 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol with at least 3 pistol magazines and at least 150-200 rounds of ammo. Revolvers (with 3 speedloaders)are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. Also you will need a RIFLE with at least 3 rifle magazines, a way to carry the 2 spare rifle mags on your person and bring at least 60 rounds of ammo for the rifle. We will be working with both pistol and rifle . I have found some new drills (and also designed a couple too) for the group to shoot. We will also run some "man on man" drills to test skills and add a little motivation. Most ranges don't allow you to just show up and shoot while moving so don't miss out on this opportunity !

And we apparently keep forgetting the TN state Constitution reads in Article 1 Section 26. That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime. So even if we want to argue that the federal Constitution allows no infringements or impediments to any and all carry of any and all weapons (which is shaky legal and historical ground) , the TN State Constitution clearly reserves the right of the legislature to regulate the wearing of arms in the state of Tennessee. Frankly I'd like to see the "enhanced permit" have the added value of eliminating the force of law from the signage. ANY business would still be able to ask you to leave if they so choose. But if you have the "enhanced permit" the signs then would not get you in legal trouble.

Yeah kind of like John Belushi's "College" shirt in Animal House it would just say "Concealed Carry"

Just wait until there is a democrat controlled House AND Senate.....

That's a tough one.....of course there are also a lot of non cross dominant people that have a hard time with rotating targets .... Adding a rotating mover to the equation we have now introduced another variable and I'd really need to see what you are doing and what kind of problem you are having. Sometimes it helps for the doctor to see the patient's symptoms in person. Assuming we are talking about a Texas Star here ,one general thing that often helps is to be working the trigger in route to the next plate so that when you get to it the gun is firing. You don't want to get to it and then have to manipulate the trigger because by the time the gun fires the plate may have moved or you are more likely to jerk the trigger trying to make it fir "RIGHT NOW" before it moves again.

This. Deerslayer, My explanation was answering Trekbike’s question. I was explaining for the non cross dominant people what cross dominant people are dealing with and why it is a problem and why it effects their shooting when it is an undiagnosed condition. Just like I said in the earlier post once We determined the student was cross dominant and I showed him how to mitigate that condition he shot very well. But he had been dealing with this for 40 years and as of yet had not yet considered (nor even heard of ) the possibility that he was “aiming with the wrong eye”. If you are cross dominant and you have already figured it out then you are that far ahead of those who still cannot figure out why they seem to be doing all the mechanics right but are still not getting the results they want . It could be that they just have a cross dominant vision issue that has gone undetected and undiagnosed.

OK let me try this again. If you are right eye dominant put the gun in your left hand and with both eyes open , and with the gun under your left eye point the gun (or even just your finger) at something small across the room. You might even be seeing "a double vision image" of the gun but go ahead and aim the gun as best you can without closing your right eye. Now close your dominant (right) eye. Look and see if the gun (or your finger) is still lined up with the object. What looked like it was lined up with BOTH eyes open (but with gun under non dominant eye) may very well now have "moved" when you closed the dominant eye and you are looking at the gun now only with the eye that is lined up behind it and you see that the gun is now pointed RIGHT of where it APPEARED to be pointing when both eyes were open. Now start over with the gun in left hand and go ahead and close the right eye so you have target , front sight, rear sight and LEFT eye all in line. Now open your right eye and see if it looks like the gun (or guns if you are seeing a double image) moved. If it did look like it moved then with both eyes open move the gun so it looks like it is lined up again. Now close your RIGHT eye and use your LEFT eye to see if the gun is still lined up with the target. It most likely is not. The "problem" is that with a cross dominant eye and with both eyes open you are essentially looking across your body (or at least across your face ) with your natural dominant eye vision and you are seeing the gun from an angle and not actually looking directly down the gun from back to front. Think about a right triangle. For a cross dominant person the A leg is the arm holding the gun, the B leg is your body and the C leg-the hypotenuse is your line of vision with your dominant eye. But if you close that eye you are now looking up the A leg with your non dominant eye and it is in line with the sights and the target and is most likely allowing you to see that your previous aim was slightly off from where it looked like it was . Now you can close your dominant eye and aim with your non dominant eye directly in line with the gun but we really do not recommend closing an eye (nor are you likely to) in a reactive "get your gun out and get to work RIGHT NOW" type situation. So instead of closing an eye we either turn our head to get the dominant eye behind the gun or move the gun across the body to line up the front sight and rear sights with the dominant eye. Or split the difference and move both the head and the gun a little towards each other.

Reminder that this is coming up on Saturday !

Yes. You either bring your eye behind the gun by turning your head (in your case think touching your chin to your right shoulder so your left eye is now behind the extended gun ) or by bringing the gun across the centerline of your body in front of the dominant eye. With a pistol you can cant the gun a little to get the sights tilted toward that left eye without having to move the gun quite as far and still maintaining a locked wrist. Or you can split the difference and tilt the head a little and bring the gun across the body a little. If at all possible I want to maintain a locked wrist for better control, and to avoid "limp wrist" malfunctions. Truth be told that is what I do when I'm shooting left handed. I'm naturally right handed and right eye dominant so when I shoot with my non dominant hand (left) I cant the gun inboard about 30 degrees to the right , bring the gun in line with my sternum , and then turn my head very slightly to the left to get my right eye lined up behind the sights. (This is a lot easier to show in person than to explain...)

What we normally see from cross eye dominance is "seemingly random bullet placement". I'm not sure exactly what his targets used to look like before because I discovered the eye dominance issue before we ever fired any rounds. So he was starting out "corrected" when we started shooting. The easiest way to explain what cross dominant folks see is if you are right eye dominant hold the gun in your right hand in front of your right eye pointed at the light switch or some other object. . Now close your right eye and it will look like the gun moved to the right of where it was when you had your right eye open. So now when you move it back to the left to "correct " your aim you actually are pulling the gun left off the target. I hope that makes sense. So they are really aiming the gun either left or right (depending on the eye) of where they think they are aiming it.

Since I was mentioned by name (more or less) I'll chime in.... A good habit to develop is a well developed ability to not try to interject unnecessarily yourself into other people's issues out in public when you are armed. I did NOT just say not to intervene. I said try not UNNECESSARILY interject yourself. If you have any questions read about and watch the Michael Drejka video where he appoints himself the "handicap space monitor" of the gas station , gets in a screaming match with a woman, gets knocked down by her boyfriend and then shoots him AFTER he begins backing away with his hands up. The easily predictable and proper result? Prison. Had he simply controlled himself and not instigated an argument in public while armed then he'd still be free. On the flip side lets look at the Sutherland Springs church shooting where Stephen Willeford grabbed his rifle and got involved. He responded to a clearly defined act in progress that shocks the conscience of most anyone. He is NOT in jail. Why? Because he involved himself to stop something that was clearly recognizable as something unlawful, immoral and anti social by ANY standards and he decided to get involved to save lives. So what does all this mean? It means that if you cannot clearly define and articulate that what you are witnessing is going to result in grave bodily injury or death to an innocent person then you really need to reconsider pulling your gun and shooting (or threatening to shoot) someone. If you hear gunfire on the OTHER end of the mall you might want to reconsider hauling out your pistol and "running to the sound of the guns " especially if you don't know what is going on and don't know how many of them there actually are.... When Joseph Robert Wilcox decided to pull his pistol and go hunting for Jerad Miller during Miller's attack on the Las Vegas Walmart in 2014, Wilcox left a position of relative safety to find and stop Miller and was ambushed by Amanda Miller who he did not realize as an accomplice. Also if the cops shoot you thinking YOU are the shooter it counts just as much and kills you just as dead as the bad guy shooting you. Can there be mitigating circumstances that might drive you to charge off into the unknown ? Sure. If your family is on the other end of Walmart and that is where the gunfire is coming from then I think most folks would be compelled to act....but if you and your family are together 10 feet from the door and you hear rifle fire at the other end of Walmart then exiting stage left might be the best plan. As to getting involved in a stabbing in progress? If it is that you happen upon 2 dudes fighting in a parking lot that is not as clear cut as someone stabbing 3 women in a convenience store so you might be far more likely to get involved in one situation than another. If you feel confident in your assessment of the situation, feel confident in your skills (and are COMPETENT with your skills) then step in and do something . But we need to be able to take a breath and see the big picture before we charge off into the unknown doing our best impersonation of George Custer "there's probably just a few Indians out here....the village can't be THAT big"........

This class has been moved from April 4-5 to May 2-3 . Hope to see you there!

A LOT of counties and cities have most likely overstepped their legal authority in some of their recent "mandates" .

OK guys and gals, it looks like we are going to postpone this one . I will let you know as soon as we have a new date locked in. Sorry for any inconvenience.

On Saturday APRIL 18 we will hold our next meeting for the TN/GA/AL Regional Training Group for 2020 ! Subject : Getting shot sucks...get off the X !!! This is a repeat of the February training day material since it was so well received and since so many regular attendees missed it. So if you missed it here it is again ! Instructor: Tier 1 Suarez Int Staff Instructor Randy Harris Location: The Regular place - 763 CR 332 Pisgah Al 35765 Time: 9AM CENTRAL time - 3PM CENTRAL time Price: $80 - pay at class cash or check. What you need to bring: Pistol, pistol magazines and at least 150-200 rounds of ammo. Revolvers are welcome if you want to party like it is 1899. We will work on our pistol skills specifically getting off the X in reactive situations, retaking the initiative and counter attacking. If your skills you learned in Close Range Gunfighting have gotten a little rusty this is the tune up you need! We will also run some "man on man" drills to test skills and add a little motivation. Most ranges don't allow you to just show up and shoot while moving so don't miss out on this opportunity ! Looking forward to seeing you there!

REMINDER ! This one is just a couple of weeks away !

Just a week to go on this one. If you have a red dot pistol and want to take your skills (no matter what level) to the NEXT level then this is the class for you. Don't miss this chance to get this class east of the Mississippi.