QuackerSmacker

Nobody is advocating lying or breaking any laws. The point is that ATF does not care about, or even have any authority over individual policies of the common carriers which may be more restrictive than what the law requires. Also, there was a lot of discussion this spring about both FedEx and UPS varying their supposedly ironclad policies on a customer by customer basis. Their relationship with the NRA was probably the major focus of those discussions, though I believe there were something like 80 customers listed in one memo who were getting special treatment and/or pricing. Needless to say, the carriers did not want this widely publicized. If you go to a carrier, disclose that you're shipping an unloaded handgun to a non-licensee in your own state, and they agree to ship it you have broken no laws. They may have violated their own company policy about FFLs but no law was broken. And yes, it happens all the time. And if you go visit a few FedEx or UPS offices you will probably get a few different answers.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

f you were shipped a handgun from a non-licensee and you are a non-licensee, and the common carrier was not notified, then federal law was broken in the process. So you notify the common carrier, no federal law broken. Geez, this is NOT rocket science!

Read this and then please leave me alone, unless somehow you just can't: https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508-Firearms-Shipping-Guide

Well, I've shipped and received a significant number of firearms though both of them, without problem or incident, so I'm speaking from actual experience, and I think you guys are speaking from what you believe. I'll go with experience. No disrespect intended, it just is what is is, or at least was what it was. Maybe all the rules have changed, but my last FedEx handgun from downstate (IL) came in about 6 months ago. To be clear, we're talking about INTRAstate shipments. INTERstate shipments clearly require FFL on the receiving end.

Ok. So we know only FFLs can send handguns through the post office. Other shippers (UPS, FedEx, etc) can do what they do. In practice their local offices often have widely varying policies on this, probably depending even to the level of who's working there that day. YMMV

There are no requirements for FFL involvement in INTRAstate transactions (except for restricted firearms like fully auto, etc). The US Postal Service can be used for long gun shipments, by anyone. Using an FFL for any intrastate transfer may provide a comfort level, and possibly a reduction of potential liability, but is not a legal requirement. When you sell a firearm Tennessee law requires you to keep a record, but does not specify the term. That's my understanding. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll tell me! Please do! You guys outta try doing this in ILLAnnoy! Actually it's not that bad ---- you can get a background check from the IL State Police for any buyer, for free, usually online within seconds. And there is no record kept of the request, or whether any transaction actually ensued. Supposedly. And Photoguy, yeah. You got it. It just means go get it done, but not in violation of any laws or rules. It's way easier in Tennessee to just get lots of things done.............damn, I hope I'm right about that! Will know in a few weeks and the coming months.

Not getting trolled into this one.

Wow, I'm still stuck in ILLannoy for about 5 more weeks, but there is so much disinformation on this thread about TN gun transfer laws that it is almost comical. YDWYHTD

Erik88, you are so defensive about these biker's decisions it is really weird. Go over there, rent a bike, take a trip down the road and let us know how it works out. My guess as to the likelihood of that happening ------------------ 0.0000000000% So why do you care about this so much? Something is OFF here........

Erik88, I'm not going to get into a dumb debate about why you somehow think these dead people were supposedly likely safe. It didn't work out well. It was 100% predictable. The outcome speaks volumes. If you don't believe me, go grab a bike and take a ride in any "Stan" place and let us know how it turns out.

You really need to get a better understanding of statistics. This is looking like troll stuff.

Put another way, do you want this couple in/on your homestead with firearms helping you defend against the zombies, the feds, the whomever when the SHTF? No, you don't. They will be useless and probably a danger to you and your family. They put you at risk. The evidence of that is obvious. They got themselves killed, for no valid reason. What about this does anyone not understand?

If I understand this event correctly, they were out to PROVE that it is safe to bike through ISISLand. Bye Bye.

I think the problem that many of us have with feeling sorry for this pathetic couple is that they made a seriously calculated decision to prove something, and they lost, and the end result was just about 100% predictable. That is getting into the realm of the galactically stupid. That's a lot different than the stupid snap decisions that we all make in life that don't turn out well. I can't work up much sympathy for galactically stupid stuff! I feel sympathy for the survivors who cared about these bozos, because they cared about these morons and suffered a tragic loss.

I feel sadness that they died, and I'm sure any reasonable person on this forum feels the same way. I have had a small number of near-death experiences, mostly related to flying. But I didn't go flying into big time danger zones, unless directed there, and always got lucky. The problem with this couple just seems to come back to the fact that they were reckless in their risk assessment. Yes, I've done crazy things and taken on insane risks in different roles, flights, etc. But I would never take my wife for a bike ride in ISIS territory. That is a difference!

You obviously take a more warm-hearted view toward these bikers than most of us. I think for that you should actually be commended. I just wish that these young folks would have been more concerned about their safety, before they embarked on this obviously risky venture. They risked not only their lives, but the ensuing grief of countless family members and friends that have to mourn them and deal with all of the aspects of the spinning aftermath of their demise. I feel like they were selfish and robbed all of their loved ones, who have to clean it all up. In essence, I think they were both reckless, and selfish. Does that make sense?

Hey, scuzzball has just delivered the best economy this country has ever seen. But I guess that don't count. Let's beat him up. Wow.

That is a ridiculous and irrelevant statement, and you don't mean it respectfully. We certainly have made lots of mistakes, reckless ones in our youth, and plenty of stupid things along the way. Untold dumb-ass things we've done. But we don't go riding bikes in ISIS territory to prove that they are really nice guys. What about this do you not get?

I read all that, and am not impressed. Bottom line, don't go bike riding in ISIS territory. It's a high HIGH risk adventure. Duh!

I reserve my sympathy emotions for those who didn't stupidly put themselves into situations that were predictably going to get them killed. They basically DARED the bad guys to act. Sorry, but that's just it. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

"Deserved" might not be the correct standard here, but to say they were "asking for it" doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

So these millennial wizards thought working was a waste of their lives. Bad calculation --- they got their lives wasted. Darwin Award?

Life

My CZP07s have been absolutely great right out of the box.