DaveTN

You understand don’t you that if you pull a gun and it doesn’t fire; Jody will be driving your Vette?

Other than $15 and more training time what is the difference in this class and handgun carry? If you get this certification can you carry? If not, can you use the class to meet the requirements for a HCP?

I would only intervene if a person was in “real†danger of death or great bodily harm. I would never intervene just because a crime was being committed.

Post in the for sale or trade sections what you want. I posted “WTB 686 4†FTF in MIDDLE TENNESSE†on several of the forums. I got an email the next day from a guy right here in town… great price, done deal and met a decent fellow shooter.

Because they did something wrong or because they should fear an attorney?

Things like this make sure racism stays alive and well. It’s determined that the city did nothing wrong but the minorities and their attorney’s still need a payday. This should be defended at all costs. Knuckling under to racism just insures that it will thrive. Paying off allegations of racism when it does not exist will have the same result as paying off terrorists. Goes to show.... we have a legal system; not a justice system.

Only girlymen use 9mm’s. Real men use .45ACP. That is all.

It should be no different than for any other citizen. A permit is a privilege; not a right. The standards are so low that almost anything he says the Judge will buy. It’s like needing PC to stop your car because the cop has a “gut feelingâ€. Any well trained cop can have PC in a couple of blocks of following you. How many times has it happened to you? And I’m not asking that to be a smart azz, my state did not allow carry so I have no idea how much this happens. In the cases you know of what reason did the Officers give? Is there Tennessee case law on a Police Officer stopping a person because the Officer sees a gun? In my state if I stopped someone I had to be prepared to answer that question. But I didn’t have to answer it to the person I was stopping and I didn’t have to answer it right then. (Certainly I would give them an explanation in most cases; when I have my weapon pointed at them and I am disarming them is not one of those cases.) Some people will always believe their forth amendments rights are being violated. Our founding fathers used the word “unreasonable†for a reason. A Police Officer that needs wide latitude on the forth amendment to stay alive and a private citizen that sees stop and frisk as a violation of his rights will never agree. Police Officers have the very basic right to stay alive. So far the courts have recognized that; I believe that is exactly what our founding fathers would have wanted. I am the first to agree that there are bad cops out there. But if you think they are bad now, what do you think you will have if the courts decide that your privilege is more important than an Officers life. Not only did I not sleep at a holiday inn last night, but I don’t know Tennessee criminal law. But let me do some thinking out loud. Let’s say that you believe you are being stopped because the Officer saw your firearm. But in reality the Officer is stopping you because you match the description of a guy that has just shot three people to death in the parking lot of a gas station. I do however know Illinois law. So let me throw this out in case any of you are like the lady that decided to carry her firearm in Illinois. You can be as innocent as the day is long but most Officers are not going to have any discussion with you until the threat to them is over; that means you are being disarmed.

Frequently, the police will observe somebody who needs to be checked out. That is the purpose of a stop and frisk, which has many different names: a field interview, a field inquiry, a threshold inquiry, or just routine questioning. Terry v. Ohio (1968), an 8-1 decision with only Justice Douglas dissenting, gave police the right to temporarily detain somebody if there are specific articulable facts leading a reasonable police officer to believe a crime might be occurring. This standard is known as "reasonable suspicion," although some people call it articulable suspicion or more than mere suspicion. It is not necessary for the officer to articulate or identify a specific crime they think is being committed, only that a set of factual circumstances exist that would lead a reasonable officer to believe that criminal activity is occurring. Note that arrest, search, and seizure require probable cause, or what a "reasonable person" would believe. Stop and frisk, by contrast, requires what a "reasonable officer" would believe. Reasonable suspicion is one step below probable cause and one step above a hunch.

I carried for years, but when I moved to Tennessee I didn’t feel the need to get a carry permit. Seeing more and more of these stories is changing my mind. These guys that start shooting over an argument and start shooting in road rage incidents need to die right where they stand. “An armed citizen killed the suspect†needs to be included in all these stories.

I haven’t refuted my point. From your posts I doubt you know what my point is. Economics isn’t rocket science.

Good Lord you guys are depressing. Everything that sells is not based on how cheap it is. If it was we would all own Hi-Points, Chevrolet and Dodge would never sell another Corvette or Viper, we wouldn’t have big screen LCD or Plasma TV’s, and all you firearms instructors would be out of work. American manufacturing can’t compete on price… period. With the mindset me have in America right now (I don’t care where it’s made as long as it’s cheap) by the time your kids or grandkids enter the workforce you will have destroyed their economy for them. They will look you in the eye and ask “How could you have been so ignorant?†Dumb azz excuses won’t work. It is not the fault of foreign workers and our government can’t help. The responsibility for our economy rests squarely on the shoulders of the American people. I have to believe that something is going to happen to turn things around. I try to do my share.

Good idea… the “Rolling Rock†thing. Let me first say that I did not read all six pages of this thread, so someone may have already posted this. I believe that everything in life is application driven. “The best†for anything will depend on your application and the desired result. If we are discussing “the best†handgun round we would need to define what our desired results are. Here are some possible desired results…… 1. Make a hit render a bad guy unwilling or unable to fire his weapon at you. 2. Make large wound tracts, making sure he bleeds out. 3. Show good ballistic numbers when shooting through gelatin or wet phone books. 4. High velocity numbers on paper. I was trained “Stop the threatâ€. Three words; everything else is secondary. His death, would tracts, velocity, bullet size, bullet energy, bullet placement, and collateral damage… bla ..bla...bla. Everything is secondary to making him unwilling or unable to fire his weapon. For over 100 year’s one handgun round has been the undisputed king of this requirement. Other rounds may be used for other applications or desired results. The fact that you can’t handle a .45, that it’s a hassle to conceal, that it is heavy, that it costs more to shoot than a 9mm or that it doesn’t hold as many rounds as a .40; are legitimate reasons for you to step down to the second best. Shot placement…. For those guys it does not matter what caliber they use. If you can repeatedly, under pressure, with adrenaline flowing to the max make head shots; caliber is kinda moot. Having been there, done that and having the T-Shirt; I can’t do that.

I don’t know if this will work or not but I applaud the Governor for trying. To Julie Pace I would say that while all other Law Enforcement Agencies in this country and been taxed to their limits; Immigration has either sat on their hands or thrown them up in the air and said they can no longer enforce our laws. It would be sad if a legal ruling would stop a state from protecting itself against illegal immigration while the Feds refuse to enforce the laws they swore to uphold.

That is what I wanted to post but I figured the training peeps would jump all over me. I would like to take a class that would fulfill the requirements for carry; but I don’t need any firearms training. I would like to take the class where the instructor is someone that is well versed in the letter of the law about carry laws, civil law, and the statutes governing the use of deadly force. 7 hours of law and then go crank off 50 rounds to qualify. I guess the perfect carry class would be one where a highly qualified firearms instructors taught the firearms side and a representative from the State Attorney’s office (maybe a volunteer) taught the law side. I’m not really interested in hearing from someone that has less criminal law experience than I have reading statutes and giving me their interpretations. And I certainly don’t want to pay for that.

Ported handguns look good in photos. After all, who cares how it shoots as long as it looks good in pictures. BTW… I’m a Toolmaker maybe some of you would like your initials ported into your barrels.

They do support us. Many restaurant owners are carry permit holders. I only know one restaurant owner and he is pro gun and pro carry. Have you asked the owners of any restaurants? Applebee’s is a national chain, I doubt they want to start making political statements on any issue they don’t have to. You don’t have a right to carry a gun in a restaurant, if Tennessee did away with the liquor/carry law; you still don’t have a right to carry. So this isn’t a rights issue. Absolutely they are looking out for their liability, as would any business or homeowner. I have said many times that if you want to carry whever you like; you have to have legislation that frees the business owners from civil responsibility for something you do. I bet as soon as you get that through; you will be able to carry anywhere you like. If I owned a restaurant (or any other business) I would not feel strongly enough about something that your state does not even recognize as a right to put my family’s business in jeopardy. If I did feel strongly about it, I would put up a sign welcoming permit holders….. after all you would be the one getting arrested; not me. Between the smoking ban, the firearms ban, and you suggesting a boycott I would bet many owners would disagree with you.

Marswolf that’s like when you see someone claiming that cops support gun control because of something “The International Association of Police Chiefs†or ‘The Teamsters Union†said. Most members of the IACP are administrators, not cops; they have a political agenda. I guess now that the Teamsters represent Metro cops they can now start making statements about what cops support. Restaurant owners are just regular people like the rest of us. I want their support. Just as the bars that will fold because of the smoking bans; restaurants are the victims here.

Let’s hope not; they are not your enemy. That isn’t education. You are suggesting an attack (Boycott) on restaurant owners that don’t have jack to say about whether or not you carry in their establishments. It’s a knee jerk reaction against an innocent party because you are pizzed that someone wants to limit your carry privileges. Problem is you have not properly identified your target. Find legislators that own restaurants and boycott those specific restaurants.

I don’t support that idea. You are targeting the wrong group. I don’t think restaurant owners are against you carrying. It’s a guns and liquor issue with your legislators. Causing any other group to be “the enemy” does not make good sense.

Another Illinois transplant. 9 years for me. (TGOFIA) Tennessee Gun Owners From Illinois Association.

Anyone own one? As best I can tell from the literature they are manufacturing all the components and assembling their rifles in Nashville. It appears they import the handguns. I plan on buying 7.62 AR in the near future. They don’t offer one, but I’m just checking out manufacturers. Buying locally would be great.

When I first heard that I thought it was a joke. As a former LEO I just can’t comprehend Police Officer joining the Teamsters.

I always run the latest OS as soon as it is out. I ran Vista for about two months and just last week switched back to XP Media Center. Vista didn’t have any major problems for me, but it was just always something. SP1 may fix everything, if not it could possibly be the next Windows ME. This has nothing to do with laptops, but I just bought a new desktop. It came down to Dell and gateway. Gateway has a new “configure-to-order†operation at laVergne. (These are not the “Best Buy†Gateways). I bought the Dell XPS-410 and have since wished I had given the gateway a shot. But I couldn’t find anyone that had one.

I think it is an excellent weapon. But if you are concerned at all about resale I would rethink the .40 caliber idea. I would go with .45 on a 1911.