DaveTN

Go read the first post and all your questions will be answered.

I conceded the drunk part in this scenario because it isn’t even going to be an issue. They will probably put you on video or just use the Officers description. I’m wondering more about the possession part after the HCP holder being drunk has been established.

HCP is not a right. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought you were required to show your HCP to a Police Officer on request. I would think that “Is there a weapon in the vehicle now?†would be the next logical question. Are you saying that you think you have a right to not answer that question and still have your HCP remain in good standing?

I think you are missing the point that the passenger is drunk. Drunks are dumber than **** and will say anything. I can assure you that most of the time you can’t shut them up on a traffic stop… even when they aren’t the one being questioned.

I disagree. The worst case scenario would be that you go to court and are convicted of the charge and lose your carry permit. In my scenario the passenger wasn’t asked to show ID. The Officer asks a simple question. “Are there any weapons in the vehicle?†A drunks mind can’t work fast enough to think of the possible repercussions of the answer he gives. He can tell the truth, lie, or become a drunk playing lawyer and invoke the 5th or get out of the vehicle and lock the doors. (Sorry about the last part, I just had to add that after seeing that video. I laugh out loud every time I picture someone doing that) The intoxication is a given. The Officer will nail it in court the same as a DUI that refuses to submit. The question here (as I see it) is possession and the state of the firearm. The written law does not define (at least not that I see) possession or anything about the state of the firearm (only that it is a handgun). Seems to me there must be a definition or case law somewhere on this. Was the arrested drunk? Given. Was the arrested in possession of a handgun? Does the state need to prove if it was loaded or not? When the dispatcher advises an Officer that the registered owner is an HCP holder; is it reasonable for the Officer to ask if there are weapons in the vehicle? Is an HCP holder required (by law) to answer that question? There is reasonable suspicious that the owner of the vehicle may be armed. Upon approach the Officer feels it is probably the passenger and asks the question about firearms. There is no trunk (Suburban, SUV, or pick-up). It is accessible to passengers.

Yes. It popped into my head while reading the blog on Patrick Stegall’s website.

I don’t drink and drive, ever; so DUI will never be an issue to me. However… I do go out and drink if I have a DD. Let’s say that I’m out shopping or running errands with the wife. Later we decided to go to a bar. Since I know I can’t take my gun in a bar, and I know I’m going to be legally intoxicated when I leave; I decided to secure my weapon in the vehicle. I clear the weapon, unload the magazine and store them in the rear compartments of my Suburban (I don’t have a trunk). On the way home my wife gets stopped for speeding (she has not been drinking). While he is stopping me the Officer runs a license check and sees that I have a carry permit. Upon approaching my vehicle he sees that my wife is driving and I am sitting in the passengers seat. He asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle. I tell him that there is, but that it is unloaded and secured in the back on the vehicle. The Officer decides to arrest me under 39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence. Do you think this charge would stand? Discuss.

Don’t look to the internet or a book for legal advice when it comes to firearms. If you submit a question in writing to the ATF; they will reply with a written response. This doesn’t mean that you still won’t be arrested; but at least you will have a defense. That will provide an answer for Federal law; then all you have to do is get an answer on Tennessee state law. Here is a link the FAQ section of the ATF that addresses both Non-Immigrant aliens and Permanent resident aliens. http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm I would look into pursuing this….

I think they are clueless. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:stockticker>HCP</st1:stockticker> in a store and 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment rights have nothing to do with each other. No. All they did was take money from your daughter. They had no impact on the store or their carry policy. If you have a problem with a business not allowing carry you either discuss it with the owners or you just don’t go in the store.

Short of breaking out fat canyons and drawing pictures; I don’t think the law or its intent could be any clearer. I wouldn’t do it unless you are willing to risk arrest. I’ve only been in a couple of BYOB places and that was many years ago. But they took my liquor at the door and then served it to me at my table.

Well then that settles it; I’m going to have to have one also. But I want the mag disconnect so it looks like it might take a little while to find one.

I don’t know anything about this round. Now having said that… if the clothing a person is wearing is an issue this round certainly is not in the same league as a .357mag or even a .38. If I need one more round, or more power than my 2†J-Frame, I’ll switch to my 2 ½†K-frame model 66. Not that much harder to conceal and handles .357mag loads with ease. With the rising cost of ammunition I don’t see any newcomers having much of a chance.

Absolutely. I think blued guns are things of beauty. But the finish is going to wear off if you carry them. Most people can’t fix a blue finish, but most can fix stainless.

I don’t think it’s as much a question of carrying a large caliber as it is of carrying concealed vs. open. We have beaten that to death here. Certainly I would rather have my .45ACP 1911 or a 15 round M&P .40 rather than my J-frame .38; but that is not always possible do to when and where I may be carrying. There is no perfect gun, you need several. If you find yourself in a courtroom the justification of the use of deadly force has been brought into question. The way you carry your firearm, the model, or the type of ammo you used can’t get you there. However… once you are there all those things plus things like; how you dress, how you talk, your haircut and your demeanor in court will all come into play.

Hey Glen….. maybe we should have taken a picture.

If you had purchased $1000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. With Enron, you would have $16.50 left of the original $1000. With WorldCom, you would have less than $5.00 left. If you had purchased $1000.00 of Delta Air Lines stock you would have $49.00 left. If you had purchased United Airlines, you would have nothing left. But, if you had purchased $1000.00 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminum recycling refund you would have $214.00. Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle. This is called the 401-Keg Plan.

Well I think that is what he wants to know. Not a bunch of posts from people stating what a great defensive round brand “X†is when they have never fired a round at anything other than a target or a can. Post up some information from some credible sources. I think the FBI use to do ballistics and shooting reports; don’t they publish them anymore? It’s hard to find “credible†information on rounds designed to shoot people without studying incidents where people were shot. This would be a good thread to start posting some of the new “credible†information in as well as some of the (sure to follow) amusing information. I couldn’t get in there without joining. Could you post to links to some of these peoples studies.

Any they won’t be here either because as you can see you will just get a bunch of postings of what people use. Since you have decided on 9mm, I don’t assume that you are asking about the caliber as a choice for a carry round, so I assume you are asking about ammo manufacturers. Any of the proven performers will work fine. Federal Hydra Shok, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady, Winchester Ranger. If you are looking for the #1 rated defensive pistol ammo; that would be Federal Hydra-Shok. It has owned that title your years. It is what all other pistol rounds are compared to.

As a former Illinois Police Officer and also some one that has been arrested for Unlawful Transportation of a Firearm in Illinois (Think I have the bases covered?) I can tell you that you can’t legally have a loaded firearm on you or in your vehicle in the state of Illinois. It has to be cased, unloaded in the trunk. Magazines can’t be loaded.

Todd Watts in Christiana, Tennessee did a Model 19 S&W that I wanted done in the old high gloss blue (almost black). He did an excellent job. I will shoot you a PM with his contact info. Here are a couple of shots of how it turned out.

Like a car jacker looks to see what stickers you have. If you think that helps; get a PBPA sticker. As a former Police Officer let me say this… Cops are people, just like the people you work with everyday. They have varying views and ideas on the issues… just like the people you work with. No one can say what a cop will think or do when he sees the sticker, your carry permit, a gun on you or anything else. I would not even think about a gun range sticker if I saw one on a car I stopped. Now if you had something identifying you as a Harley Rider, Corvette owner or if you were a fine looking female; you might get a break.

Really looks good. Easy on the eyes and easy to read. I was a little nervous when I saw there would be a change. If I see one more gun web site where their high school kid webmaster thinks black makes a good background; I think I’ll puke.

. . .

For the first 1000 rounds nothing would run reliably in my 597 except CCI mini-mags. If you go over to Rimfire Central they have a whole section of how to fix the problems. You gotta take the good with the bad. So it jams a little. But when you compare groups with guys that had to spend more on their barrel than you spent on the gun and scope; it will make you smile.

Do you for one moment think you have a right to possess a firearm outside your home? As expected, the SCOTUS stopped short of a 2nd amendment ruling. They ruled that you have a right to own arms, but not bear them. They left the door wide open for any type of law a state or municipality likes. The handgun ban is still alive and well in Chicago. Daley says the courts ruling does not apply to Chicago. If I’m not mistaken the last I heard from the Mayor and Chief of Police in DC was that everyone (including the Supreme Court) could go piss up a rope; they aren’t changing anything. So other than a pathetic picture of Heller giving thumbs up when he got his permit to have a gun in his home, or a J-frame S&W with some 2nd amendment BS scribbled on the side of it; what have we gained? 97% of Tennessee residents would still be committing a crime if they carried a loaded gun off their property… same as before the ruling. Illinois residents still can’t carry, and Illinois stands prepared to invoke states rights and defy the ruling if anyone tries to apply it to them. We fought a war over state rights; no one is going to fight a war over the 2nd amendment. So… you can do all the flag waving, give Constitutional Speeches, quote people that have been dead for over 200 years, and make statements about what the government can and can’t do all day long. But at the end of the day nothing has changed. You still do not have 2nd amendments rights whether you live in Tennessee or Illinois. Now don’t get me wrong… I don’t agree with any of this. I believe that we have a right to bear arms that comes from a higher power than the 2nd amendment. But to think that you have some right to bear arms because of this ruling is ridiculous. This has been a battle all of my adult life. I doubt that I will live long enough to see the next time the SCOUTS hears a 2nd amendment case.