DaveTN

You starting the name calling every time your feelings get hurt is really getting old.

Dear Mexico, Boo freakin’ hoo. The drug cartels that rule your county being armed is not the problem. The drug cartels that rule your county is the problem. Some of your worst violent criminals illegally cross into our country where they commit heinous crimes and kill our citizens. Then they run back across the border where your crooked cops protect them. “U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials†I am sure that is about to be followed with “So we want some money!â€. Forget about it. Do some house cleaning in your own country and check back with us later.

I agree that protectionism is exactly what we need, but I think that burden is on the people. Aren’t you concerned that by the government being involved the risks are much higher? Wal-Mart is China’s largest single source of foreign income. If the government puts laws in force that cut that income; I would think there would be the potential for bigger problems than if that income was cut because Americans were voluntarily buying products made here. I agree. The young generation doesn’t really care about the jobs of their fellow countrymen and are usually quick to tell you that. As long as products are cheap; they don’t care where they come from or what they do to our economy. I think they have had it beaten into their heads for so long that there is nothing they can do; they believe it. Untilllll…. You suggest that is not the way Patriots behave. Then their feeling get all hurt and they go on a rant. EDIT: You know what? That really isn’t fair to the young folks. In going back through here there are many in my generation that are also more than willing to sell out their country to save a buck. So I apologize; it’s not just the young folks.

My S&W’s and a Hi-Point are made from the same materials. What’s your point?

As compared to the M&P which has a polymer frame reinforced with a stainless steel chassis and stainless steel barrel and slide. Plus it was made here.

Your ideas for a fix? Is your business entertainment based? (I’m just guessing that because of your screen name)

See you are getting all emotional again and making wild azz statements. Reading is fundamental (RIF). Where have I said that you are a commie if you don’t buy American? It’s the normal progression of the “Global Economyâ€. See we were at the very top of the standard of living scale (because of our manufacturing base) while counties like China were at the very bottom. In a Global Economy, we need to take a big fall while China rises so we can be equal. That is what is happening. Is that what you want? Because you know what? I couldn’t give a rolling rip down a razor blade about the quality of life in China if I have to sell out my grandkids future to do it. We are in war; we take care of our own. You are exactly correct. I breezed through spell checker too fast. Again…. RIF. It was a question, not a statement. I couldn’t figure out where that cheap shot about me being a former cop came from, or why. I was just under the impression that you were either a cop or a security guard or something. I thought I read at one time that you posted you work in law enforcement. Let me get this straight… you threw a little fit and went off on me and now you want me to recant or post an apology or something? Or what? You’ll threaten to leave and not come back?

Who is concerned about American workers? Obama isn’t. You say that you want quality made American products at the same price as the foreign made stuff. It can’t happen. Employee health care, OSHA, EPA, Unemployment benefits, Pensions, 401K’s, Overtime, vacation pay, family leave, civil liability. Those are just a few of the costs than manufacturers here have that those companies you want to buy from overseas don’t have. How do you suggest that we manufacture a product at the same price as a foreign company when our companies are strapped with that? Why are the Visa programs still in force? Because of you price buyers that think we should be able to produce a product for the same price as a foreign competitor. If a company can get an IT guy or a programmer from India that is every bit as good as you, but will work for a quarter of your wage; shouldn’t they do it? I mean after all, price is most important to you… correct? I agree. I have said all along that although I buy my vehicles from American Manufacturers; but I do not consider those companies our friends. GM’s and Ford built in Canada and Mexico hurt our economy, they don’t help it. And they should not get a dime of any bailout money. I know that would be almost impossible to overseas, but this bailout is about jobs here. We are not bailing out the auto industry because we like them. We are bailing them out because if they go under or economy will be devastated by the loss of jobs. (So much for the “Sink or Swim†or “let things take their course†attitude. There will be no surprises; we know exactly what the course will be.)

Sorry, I left out the word “thatâ€. Here I fixed it.

I wasn’t directly responding to your thoughts; that’s why I didn’t quote you. I was just responding to the whole idea in general. As I said it seems that once a week someone with their tin foil hat screwed on too tight has to make a speech about how the government is going to start kicking in doors and by God they better hope they don’t come to their house… and bla… bla… bla… color me tactical … I’m a Ninja warrior… we have heard it all.

What double stack do you want that is foreign made? How so? Do you own an XD or an M&P? Since round count is what seems to matter to you, does the XD’s hold more rounds that the M&P? Because if I remember right the XD 40 I shot was 12 rounds. and my M&P 40 was 15; but I could be mistaken. Not really. A POS is a POS regardless of who is shooting it. What is it? Correct, so who makes the foreign gun you want?

My M&P held 15 rounds of .40S&W. that’s a tremendous amount of firepower. How many does the XD hold? Then buy one. Smith & Wesson, Kimber, Colt, Springfield Armory, and several of the “Place your favorite name here†guys make them here. That would be a double stack; and is not really a 1911. If you need that many rounds there are American made choices you can go with. Quality 1911’s are high dollar guns. If you want hi capacity I would stick with the Tupperware guns. I own a full size Smith & Wesson Stainless target .45 and a Kimber SIS Ultra for carry. I do not want a double stack; they are too fat, and round capacity is not an issue for me. With all due respect the 1911 has withstood the test of time; there is no need to make changes now. As I said… if you can’t find what you need made here there is no problem with buying foreign. I have foreign made TV’s and digital cameras. I didn’t have an American made choice. I started a thread because I need a new laptop. I thought I could buy American built, but it doesn’t appear I can.

Who do you want to kill?

I’m not debating anything; I’m talking about fixing our economic problems. That means more and better paying jobs. Some people see red when they see “Buy Americanâ€; I can’t help that. (I’m not a physiologist so I will refrain on guessing as to why:D) If you have an alternative fix please give it. But “Sink or swim Bubba†can’t be taken as a serious solution.

I have two honorable discharges, served during Vietnam, and served my country as a Police Officer. What does that have to do with anything? Carry… present tense. You with your foreign quality babble and being totally clueless about manufacturing are part of the problem. Don’t get your panties all in a bunch and your blood pressure up; give your thoughts on how to fix the problem if my ideas are so far off base. What’s a cop got to do with it? And didn’t I see you claim to be a cop… or maybe you used the term LEO?

And I think you either just want to argue about it or are trying to justify turning your back on your country and your family. Them buy them. You can be part of the problem; maybe the rest of us can carry you.

We can argue over a beer about what caused it. But in the meantime lets fix it .

Oh One… In over 150 years of making guns S&W has produced one POS; the Sigma. It is the only Semi-auto you ever see brought up and it is brought up every time someone wants to justify their bottom feeder handgun. They are….. There are many things that you can’t buy that are American Made. But where it matters the Americans are still at the top. Cars, Motorcycles, guns, and liquor…. However… if by “better†you mean “cheaper†we can’t do that and maintain our life style. You shouldn’t if those were true statements. But it’s just more I grew up riding motorcycles. I was a ricer through 13 Kawasaki’s and a Honda. I was a ricer because I couldn’t afford a Harley. Now I can. Harley Davidson is not a real player in the crotch rocket category; if you buy one buy whatever flips your skirt. But Harley owns the heavy cruiser and touring categories. If you can’t afford to pay the extra 10K; don’t pay it. But don’t whine on here that your motorcycle is “as good as a Harley; but cheaperâ€. That is exactly what we are talking about. Don’t be a hater. I buy American built GM’s but I’m no GM lover. I support my fellow Americans that work in industry here. No American auto maker should get a dime of government money that can be used to support jobs out of this country. Let Canada and Mexico help support the plants they have there if they want to keep those jobs. You can’t force a company to manufacture a better product when they are already at the top. And you can’t make them sell it for the price of the POS import. You have to step up and support our companies. If you can’t afford it no one is asking you to do it; but stay out of the way of those of us that are trying to do what’s right.

Somehow I doubt there are many "Lil Mommies" in Tullahoma that are afraid of securely holstered guns.

Exactly. And no one is asking those that can’t afford to buy U.S. manufactured to do so. But those that can afford to should be supporting their country. And it isn’t always true that American made will cost more. Let me give you an example.... The Smith & Wesson M&P is made by American workers in an American facility. Every piece of that gun including the magazines is made here. All the money from that purchase (other than possibly some foreign shareholders earnings) stays here. The XD is made in Croatian by “HS Product†(formerly IM Metal). Springfield Armory is nothing more than an importer for this product. SA started with the HS2000 when they needed a bottom feeder line. The weapon became popular because it was cheap. Some improvements have been made and now it is in the same price range as the M&P. The bulk of the money you spend on it goes back to Croatian; the people of Croatia thank you. Two weapons, both in the same price range. I don’t think anyone is going to try to make a serious argument that the XD is a better weapon that the M&P…. so why buy it?

Okay, we will just have to agree to disagree on how we got here. We have to fix it. And I don’t mean years down the road I mean now. Obama wasn’t in office a week before he was backing up and saying that there will be change but it won’t come for years or maybe even during his administration. This loser either doesn’t have a plan or he doesn’t understand the problem. For those that want a “Global Economy†we are on track for that to happen; all system are go. But wait…. You want a global economy AND you want your lifestyle to stay the same or get better? Can’t happen. Global economy is “spread the wealthâ€. Your kids and grandkids will not enjoy the lifestyle you had; they will be lucky to be able to own their own home.

The SCOTUS has ruled. The 2nd gives you the right to own guns; but does not give you the right to bear them. Regardless of what any court rules that will never change; it’s States Rights. Some states are really fighting trying to get the privilege to carry and we are fighting here because we can’t carry where liquor by the drink is sold. People interested in “Pro Gun Legislation†are a very small group. If that is a concern to you; find those politicians that support your ideas and vote for them. No one except some tin foils hats is suggesting taking my guns away. Until that happens I am more interested to know what a politician will do to bring jobs back here. Protectionism is exactly what we need right now and Obama is warning Congress against it. We can only hope that they are smarter than he is. And it is that simple… Without the government getting involved; we start buying products that are manufactured here. We get our manufacturing base back and people go back to work. If the government is involved it could get ugly. You already have Canada and France whining that the “U.S. manufactured†language in some of the stimulus legislation could cost them jobs. Duhhhhh… that is exactly what we need. GM’s and Ford are built in the U.S. where they should be; not in Canada or Mexico. But if buyers will tell the dealers that when they open the doors of those cars they need to see a U.S. city or origin, or they won’t buy them; things will change. Money talks and BS walks; where a product is manufactured can be controlled by the buyers.

CMP is an organization created by Congress. They do not play by the same rules FFL dealers do. You can pick it up or they will ship to any state (including CA). As stated you don’t need a C&R; it will just help with one of the requirements. CMP has its own discussion forum if you want to check it out. http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/

I would like to see more of these…. .

Good God man… It seems like about once a week we see a thread by someone wanting to take up arms against our government. The government is not going to “aggressively go after our gunsâ€. Who is it you want to fight? You are suggesting killing cops and our military. If you want so badly to kill someone or want to test your battle skills (seeing how you are suggesting engaging a group that will without a doubt leave you dead) why are you not in Iraq or Afghanistan? Sorry… but our government didn’t get us in the economic disaster we are in now. The American people did. And we have to get out of it by ourselves. If you need a cause; there it is. Take it up and do something about it. Because this economic problem is as real a danger to our country and our Constitution as enemy boots on U.S. soil.