DaveTN

No.

Sure, I’ll donate to the cause. But all kidding aside… After you put together this dream team of attorneys.. The first thing I would say that they are going to tell you is that if you lose; you are looking at going to prison. Possibly for as long as 10 years. Now, you can get on this forum and say you will run that risk; but when the time comes will you?

I expect to find a big thread about this, but I don’t see anything…. I heard this on the way to work this morning. McNair's Murder Prompts Look At Gun Laws - NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee -

You guys need both a manufacturer and a dealer that doesn’t want their Federal licenses anymore; and that is willing to go to jail with you. The state can't protect you from the Feds and wouldn’t on gun charges if they could. I have already been to court on gun charges and I’m not going again. But I’ll come to court and support you guys.

I haven’t been there except to drive past. But if it is a controlled bar area where they check you for guns; why were juveniles allowed in?

As the prices start to come back down I’m thinking about building a .223 and will be watching for a deal on a lower. I picked the S&W and the DPMS because they are well respected names and because the S&W would match my M&P handguns or the DPMS would match my .308 Panther. That sounds like a woman doesn’t it? I know, that’s not a good reason, but it’s a start. Anything I should know about the quality of one over the other? It is my understanding that neither S&W nor DPMS make these. So who makes them?

The scenario is not likely (the part where he tells you to go piss up a rope) but I’ll play along. When I see him in my car I am approaching him with my gun in my hand and pointed at him. I am not going “hands on†with anyone while I am armed. My wife has told the cops I have him a gun point. That means they are responding lights and Siren. I am 2 miles from the Rutherford County Sherriff’s office so this is not going to last long. If he continues working on stealing my stuff he will be in custody. If he comes at me he will be shot. If he turns and runs I will simply observe where he goes and let the cops handle it. As for a dog… When I go outside my Doberman will be in the yard, but I will not let him get to the perp. If the perp pulls a gun he will be shot. I don’t care whether he is going to shoot me or the dog and I’m not waiting to find out. I can’t think of a better case for the use of deadly force. Would I shoot if he runs? No. Am I going to physically engage him when I have no idea what he has in that car with him? No. I wouldn’t have done that when I was a cop and I was young, 10 feet tall and bullet proof then; I’m not anymore. I have always said I would not shoot anyone to protect property, but in this case if he comes at me or pulls a gun; it’s not about property anymore.

Here is what the Attorney General had to say about it. Keep in mind an AG opinion is not law. His opinion leaves this wide open and up to the responding Officer. I have never heard of anyone being arrested for this.

Texas law did not allow concealed carry at the time. Her right to defend herself was denied by the state. The woman you are thinking of is Suzanna Gratia Hupp. I don’t know if anyone sued the restaurant or not. If they did and won it would give credence to restaurant owners concerns about liability.

I’m saying what action will you take once you have found that your kid has picked up a firearm and pulled the trigger?

Point instinct shooting saved my life. I am not an expert or a trainer but I will offer what worked for me. I shot on the PD pistol team. My Sergeant was our Range Officer and team leader. He always said that target shooting is a game and that is all it is. Defensive shooting is totally different; the two require different mindsets. Target shooting obviously involves using sights, light, and no one shooting, or attempting to shoot back at you. I enjoy it and that is about all I do anymore. But I do not practice it thinking that it will help in a deadly force confrontation. Point instinct shooting prepares you for the real world scenario. I did not have the time or the light to use sights. Point instinct shooting is for very close distances; like 20 feet or less. Any farther than that and you probably have other options; like cover. Your goal is to place your rounds in center body mass without missing the suspect and hitting innocent bystanders (that you may not even be able to see). I do not think that dry firing will help you any. Sorry, but this whole concept is about eye/hand coordination and where your rounds go. Practice it in the daylight. Keep both eyes open and on the target. You will be able to see where your rounds hit and adjust accordingly. The more you practice this the better you will get at it. Then, should you find yourself in a shooting situation, in the dark, with the adrenalin pumping like you have never experienced before; you might have a chance. The stuff about balancing all kinds of stuff on your gun will help you with trigger pull, but you have already been doing that if you can hit what you want while target shooting. When the price of ammo jumped up I even bought a full size .22 so that in addition to shooting my carry guns I could shoot hundreds of rounds without going broke. It’s all about practice and mindset. I remember that after a shooting I was surprised that I didn’t even think about the mechanics of drawing my weapon and firing; I did exactly as I practiced. Good Luck.

Let’s go ahead and skip to the part where your kid picks up a gun and pulls the trigger. What do you do then? Whatever your answer is you might want to do that first and skip this silliness.

Conversation. Checking you for DUI, taking a look in your car. The gun just offered a topic. Just doing his job. It went well and you left happy.

I think it would come down to the fact that you can choose to enter or not. Also it has been ruled that law enforcement can’t he held liable for your protection, so I doubt a business would be. I would guess that there have been people that have lost family members in places where guns are banned that have tried to file suit. But since those are civil cases and not criminal they may be hard for us to find. IMHO the biggest single issue we should be addressing (concerning where we can carry) is totally removing any liability that a business owner would have in the case of a shooting, simply because it was in their building.

No, but it doesn’t require any permanent modifications to the rifle. (no drilling or tapping)

Check your monitor cable; I think you may have in on backwards.

I don’t have a Scout rifle, but I have a Scout scope set-up on a Garand.

The “Caliber wars†There are hundreds of threads on the topic here. I would stay away from the .380 and the .45 both for now if this is a carry gun. A .380 is one step above a straw and a spitball and a .45 will cost a bunch if you want a quality one small enough for carry. 9mm and .40S&W will be the most common. If it’s a “range gun†or for “home protection†you really don’t need the small size of a .380, and you probably won’t like the cost of shooting a .45. Any quality used handgun is going to approach $500. You can buy a new M&P for that and have a lifetime warranty. I was going to suggest where you could go see them all in one place; but holy crap it would be a long drive from Albany, NY

Even if it’s public I doubt it matters. As long as they check everyone. (DUI check points). Many airports are owned by cities and are public; but you still are searched prior to entering the gates. However…. I’m not an attorney and didn’t play one on TV. I just wondered if they had arrested or cited anyone for carrying there. So basically they are doing no more than a business that uses bouncers at the door… if you are carrying they just refuse you entry, if they find you carrying past the barricades they escort you out????

Just don’t buy Chinese made stuff and don’t shop at stores like Wal-Mart that peddle it. The Chinese laugh at copyrights and patents, they copy name brand items and ship them here to sell. Those items should be banned and the people that accept shipment of them arrested; but it doesn’t happen. ? I’m not going to go research that, but it doesn’t sound credible. Maybe you would like to offer an example. No it isn’t; it isn’t rocket science and you don’t need a degree in economics to understand it. When your college educated grandkids can barely be able to afford to buy a house they won’t listen to a bunch of rhetoric about how the system is broken…. They will look you in the eye and ask how you could have been so stupid. Everyone has their own idea about what a Patriot is…. As long as they are included in that description. It also depends on what the threat is at the time. An economic crisis can destroy a country just the same as a war can. In an economic crisis a person working to help the economy is as important as a solder on the battlefield. Keeping high paying manufacturing jobs with benefits in the country is key right now. That’s preposterous. I don’t know where you are buying your guns, but it appears you have spent way too much time discussing political issues and not enough time in the other forums. Don’t let the fact that you see them used in the for sale section with prices higher than new fool you. I have owned four M&P’s. I recently bought two from Hero Gear (full size and compact). I don’t remember what the exact prices were but both were under $500. ($489 maybe?) No one pays MSRP unless a firearm just came out on the market. MSRP is just so your dealer can give you a warm fuzzy felling when you buy. “Street Price†is advertised everywhere and there is very little difference in price between an M&P, Glock, and XD. What other polymer pistols… the Sigma?

Take in what products we make? Sorry, but that’s just isn’t true. U.S. manufactures are competing with foreign manufacturers while paying much higher salaries and have costs the foreign manufacturers do not have (OSHA, EPA, Health Care, Unemployment insurance, Workman’s Comp, 401K’s, etc, etc etc. Expecting them to do that AND maintain a lower price is ridiculous. Government assistance? Are you talking about the group of voters that set at home watching Oprah while getting a paycheck that we pay? That group was just tapped to elect our president. I’m not sure we can put that Genie back in the bottle. If we give citizenship to all the illegal’s (as is being suggest by some) the Hispanic’s just passed the blacks as the biggest minority. The president after that happens is Latino no matter what he stands for. We need the people to vote on a President based on what he can do for the country instead of what minority he/she is. You are possibly right. But I have always said that I don’t think it will change until it touches most Americans. That time is here. People are willing to sell out the futures of their children and grandchildren to save a buck on a car, gun or refrigerator. I like to believe that we will have some Patriots come forward that will explain to the American people that we must protect our own and how to do so. Otherwise, I think you are right; we are doomed to be on the same economic level as other countries. If we put America first all of this will be moot. The Federal government doesn’t control what we buy or who we buy it from (Generally speaking). If we want cars made here and that is what we buy; GM and Ford will quit building plants in Canada and Mexico and build them here. If we buy M&P’s instead of XD’s and Glocks; the money and the jobs stay here. These three guns are arguably the same quality and cost the same. There aren’t any American manufacturers of TV’s or most electronics right now, but if someone saw that the market was there; they may return.

And what happens when they find a HCP holder carrying?

I haven’t read through this whole thread so if this has already been asked I apologize. Is there a fee or buying a plate requirement to attend? Who do the proceeds from the food go to?

Absolutely. Giving people jobs that are not the best qualified for the job hurts all of us, whether it is in the workplace or in government. I have witnessed the written tests for Police and Fire “dumbed down†because minorities could not pass them. The physical agility tests were changed because women could not pass them. Those were the claims anyway. What was the truth? The truth was that there were minorities passing the written tests and there were women passing the physical tests. But just like for white people the percentage of those that apply compared to the percentage that can make the cut is small. In government our leaders should be the best that we have to offer; not elected or appointed because they are a minority. But now I have a watched a presidential election that was a race to see if we could elect the first black or woman as president. Who cares if they can do the job?

The government can’t be involved. The Chinese would see that as an act of war. The Japanese saw Roosevelt’s oil embargo as an act of war. The result was Pearl Harbor. However, the American people can do something about it. Not having as big a market is not the same as having it limited by a government. We can’t expect the government to do our dirty work. We want less government intervention everywhere, but all of a sudden when it comes to us being responsible for what we buy; we want the government to step in and save the day. You have people like Hillary Clinton running around and telling people that we don’t need manufacturing for a stable economy. That is ignorant at face value but the sheeple are more than willing to buy that because they don’t like the alternative. Manufacturing pays the bills; they always have. We are seeing now what is going to happen when our manufacturing base is gone. Fire, Police, Big Government; who pays for it? As the manufacturing companies leave so do the massive amounts of money they put into the local infrastructure. As the economy gets worse the need for government services increase. Without manufacturing to pay for those services in the form of American jobs we are left to pay for those services through increases in sales tax, income tax and property taxes. On gun forums we see a lot of talk about what our founding fathers would have done what they would have wanted, or what great revolutionaries they were. If our economy fails we are done. Do you think they would have bought into the whole “we will all live happily ever after with a global economy†idea. No, they would have had the vision to see where it was headed. The American people control our economy; not the government. Don’t cry that they aren’t doing their part if you aren’t doing yours.