DaveTN

If you have to draw and fire and you are justified… you are home free; signs do not matter.

I don’t think they are all as pro gun as you may think. Do you think a “Gun Nut†as you called them would just waltz out there and slap a “No weapons†sign on the door without finding out if he was required to do it? He’s doing it for the same reason the rest of them are doing it; he’s a business man. Allowing guns in a bar is just asking to lose business. If it is concealed there is no issue; if it is carried openly, that’s another story. With his sign the way it is he can let the concealed people carry and stop the open people at the door. It may also help a little if someone is shot in his place and he ends up the target of a lawsuit.

He answered that in post #63.

A man with a gun call is always going to get a response. Any cop in his right mind is not going to stand around and tell the caller he doesn’t have cause to approach the gunman. It’s just not going to happen. <O:p</O:p The Judge in this case just didn’t like the search. I don’t think he is trying to send a message to leave people that are open carrying alone. <O:p</O:p In Tennessee open carrying is illegal; so a cop can stop you and ask to see your HCP if he so chooses. <O:p</O:p You don’t ever walk around a cop that is talking to you and “Enjoy your freedomâ€. If you do it may be short lived. You have no idea why he is stopping you. You ask “Am I free to leave?†and go from there.

No, I was saying that knowingly carrying a loaded gun in the state of Tennessee is illegal unless you pay for that privilege. I am making no statements about carrying unloaded guns…. Period. <O:p</O:p You seem to be alluding to the fact that there may be some problem proving intent. Sure, the kid that was recently arrested for having a gun at school under the seat of his truck that his father left there may have a shot. Because if you believe him he had no knowledge of the gun and therefore no intent. Anyone could try that in court. “That’s not mine Officer! I have no idea how that gun/dope/booze got in my car.†Is not a defense I would want to try.

No, you aren’t missing anything. I looked at it also and I don’t think you can save a dime. As a matter of fact unless you shoot several thousand rounds a month I doubt you could break even. You need to do it because you like to reload or because you want special loads. Neither of which applied to me. The price of copper, the war, and Obama are driving up the prices right now, and that applies even if you reload.

I have a Don Hume Agent 9 (H717) that I am pretty happy with. It pulls in tight and has a thumb break. I also like it because I can use it for either the M&P compact or full size. I picked it up a Hero Gear.

Intent is an element of most crimes, nothing special about this one. The “trick bag” I refer to is thinking that because the word “intent” is used in the language there is some special requirement to prove, or some special loophole that will get you off when charged with carrying without a permit; there is not. Or more importantly that some here think there is a requirement to have some special devious intent other than carrying a gun for protection without getting an HCP. It is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in the state of Tennessee. <O:p</O:p I am not now, nor have I been addressing carrying an unloaded firearm: I specifically stated a loaded firearm. Carrying an unloaded firearm in your vehicle is legal in Tennessee, I haven’t cared enough to check to see if carrying an unloaded firearm on your person is legal or not. I would assume it is legal. <O:p</O:p I agree the AG is just another lawyer. His opinion is just that; an opinion. It is a guide for those that want clarification. If the cops or a prosecutor don’t like his opinion they are not bound by it. <O:p</O:p So… you are talking about unloaded guns and I am talking about loaded guns. We are not in disagreement about anything.

I would recommend the M&P 40 in either the full size or compact. (I own both) The good… It’s made in America by Americans. It’s a Smith & Wesson. Quality, warranty and support are second to none. It comes in many different options. It is quickly making a move to become the top choice of Cops. It has adjustable grips. It is in your price range. The bad… It’s a little fat, and it’s a Tuperware gun.

The person doing the training is far more important than the firearm. I would stick with a bolt or a lever simply because you don’t have as much chance of an AD during the learning curve.

Terry’s is probably underwater. Man, I would be tempted to snatch up that .223 if I thought I could transfer my scope back and forth.

Same thing. <O:p</O:p Don’t fall into the “intent to go armed†trick bag. In the opinion of the AG that merely means “Readily accessible and available for use in the carrying out of purposes either offensive or defensive.†<O:p</O:p If the gun is inaccessible or unavailable for use; you could make an argument. But carrying a loaded firearm (or one that could be loaded quickly) is a crime in Tennessee. <O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p

Certainly. You can be charged with aggravated assault. That is why if you ever have to do that you need to call the Police right then and wait on them to arrive. Many times I have seen people arrested simply because the responding Officer only had one side of the story. Since the other person left; they were arrested later. If the cops are only going to hear one side; make sure it is yours. <O:p</O:p

Help me out.…I admit I didn’t carefully read all 16 pages of the decision. I must have missed the part where the Judge chastised the Officers for acting as agents of the theater, or that they weren’t asked to get the guy out. Can you point that out for me? <O:p</O:p You can’t make judgments based on what a reporter writes. <O:p</O:p From the court records…. Apparently the author of that article thought the manager just wanted to show the cops what a nice gun the guy had.

Generally speaking (in states that have those laws), brandishing is letting someone see the weapon without making an outright threat. Like pulling your jacket back or pulling your shirt up to expose a weapon. It is usually a misdemeanor. It could be a felony if you make an outright threat when you do it. <O:p</O:p On the other hand, pulling a weapon out and waving it around or making threats will (in most states) get you charged with aggravated assault; a felony. I think this would be the case in Tennessee if you make any threat with a gun; I don’t think Tennessee even addresses brandishing. <O:p</O:p However…. You would have to check each states laws to know for sure. </O:p

It’s not confidence it’s complacency. If you don’t trust a weapon with a round chambered; don’t buy it.

You can always be sued. If the court determines that you were justified in using force against the person that is suing you; the court can order them to pay your costs. Good luck collecting that. But even if you are justified in using deadly force you are never released from liability for injury to an innocent bystander. (Either criminally or civilly.)

If that is true his frames are cast.

They are suppose to go as far as talking to the guy and determine that it is legal for him to carry and he isn’t intoxicated or have other problems. It is unlawful to carry in NM in businesses that are posted or ask you to leave. Since the manager called, we can assume he didn’t want the guy there. If the Manager doesn’t want to approach Rambo while he is open carrying; so be it, call the cops. <O:p</O:p If these cops had told the manger that there wasn’t anything they could do (Which would not be true) and this guy went back in the theater and opened fire, killing a bunch of people; there would be a bunch of people calling for those Cops’ heads. <O:p</O:p Dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. I would error on the side of caution. Being a cop isn’t a job for someone that is worried about being sued anyway. I don’t know why they chose to search this guy; I don’t know why they chose to disarm him. I can only guess that the Manger didn’t want him carrying since he let him back in after he put the gun in his car. It sounds to me that they are one in the same. I briefly read that a business can post or ask you to leave. I don’t care enough to research it any farther; do you know something different? They are supposed to do their jobs when called. Is this about guns or bubble gum?

The good Judge is grandstanding; I suspect his decision will be overturned. These cops didn’t stop a guy on the street and harass him; they were called by a citizen that had concerns and wanted them to respond.

The same as it is off your property; fear of death of great bodily harm.

I think you probably found out why there is a price difference between a Taurus and a Kimber.

There is no real issue here of any importance. The only issue here is people taking guns to the Police Department for storage. There isn’t anything we can do about that except tell them not to do it.

I own a PLR-16 and it is a ball to shoot. Plus you have a SBR with no ATF involved. But I won’t shoot Wolf in anything I own.

I don’t know, I can name two or three 1911’s that should be sub $200 guns but some folks are paying $400-$500 for them. A couple of years ago when a friend of mine looked for Hi-Point he couldn’t even buy one at MSRP; the dealers wouldn’t sell them that cheap. If you are going to buy cheap; at least buy American made cheap.