DaveTN

You sighted the scope in at 100 yards, you shot a foot over a deer at 20 yards (that’s about two feet off target at 20 yards) and you know it wasn’t you. Then that’s not a scope error. Either all the components are rattling around inside the scope or the scope mounts are loose. If you are comparing Leupold and Nikon in a local store I would assume you are comparing the 3X9 VX-I Leupold to the 3X9 Nikon BuckMaster and are looking in the $200 range. Either of those scopes will work fine. I made that comparison in the store and picked the Leupold. However, I didn’t see much difference; I picked Leupold for other reasons. I have owned many scopes and have two Leupolds and a Simmons right now. You get what you pay for. Check you mounts, and don’t skimp on bases and rings when you buy your scope. If your scope moves it’s really pointless what brand you buy or how much you spend.

Oh I see. Well that’s okay then. (But he should still recognize the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> in his own state)

That’s amazing. Do you shoot professionally for a living?

Exactly. He doesn’t need to file a suit against a Mayor in another state. Get your own house in order first. The Chicago gun ban is already headed for the SCOTUS. This is a political ploy at the expense of the taxpayers. I find this every bit as appalling as the thread about St. Louis throwing away ridiculous amounts of money on badges for high ranking cops.

For your requirements just compare the .40 S&W and the .357 Sig. Keep in mind the following. Velocity doesn’t mean much without applying surface area and mass. Ideally a round will expel its energy in the body, not pass through the body.

1. J-frame S&W 2. 4†1911 3. M&P 40c We have all played this game and the first two always come out on top for concealability and quality. I just threw the M&P compact in because I would pick it over anything you have listed, but it’s about as fat as a Glock or an XD.

Don’t do it, the risk is too high. It doesn’t matter if it’s a stripper clip or a magazine; the written law only addresses ammunition. I don’t know if there is any case law. If the cop thinks it’s accessible; you can be arrested. Just get your HCP and you can carry a loaded rifle; you just can’t have a round chambered.

Forget the license and the tax; I would like to know how you think that a profit is even possible.

I don’t understand. You are saying that you think the SCOTUS is going to tell the state of Illinois and all other states that do not allow citizens to carry they are violating of the 2nd amendment? Why would they do that; it isn’t even a question in McDonald? And if you think that is what they want to do, why didn’t they do it in Heller?

The landscape isn’t going to change regardless of what the SCOTUS rules. Whether or not you can strap on a gun and walk down the street is a state right. States like Illinois, California, New York and probably even Tennessee are not going to have the Feds drive handgun carry down their throats; it just isn’t going to happen. We already fought a war over that. The SCOTUS has tried for years not hear these cases because they already know what will happen. If they rule the right to bear arms is an individual right; states will just refuse to comply. If they rule it is not a right they open the door for states like California to totally outlaw guns. Neither scenario is good. The best they can hope for is to rule that you have a right to own guns, but you don’t have a right to carry them. That keeps the 2nd alive but also recognizes States Rights. If you are referring to the Chicago (McDonald) case, I suspect they will address the city handgun ban and the 14th amendment question. I don’t think they will specifically address the individual right to bear arms. But I don’t see anything changing. Maybe you would to elaborate on that.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. They shouldn’t have any more protection than those other stores you named. If the state wants to allow carry in a business they should give businesses exemptions from civil liability. They tried to do it with us, but stopped short. We can sue to recover expenses if we are sued in a good shoot, but a judgment doesn’t pay the bills if the person doesn’t have the money. A judge should have to have a hearing before we have to hire legal counsel and before a civil action can even be filed. We don’t have a Justice system, we have a legal system. While it is basically a good system it is still broke. I don’t look for it to change anytime soon because most of the people that allow it to be broke are lawyers and they make the laws.

I guess you missed Heller. You have a right to keep arms; you do not have a right to bear arms. The regulating of carrying was left up to state and local law. Regulating carry or use is state right; not an individual right.

As someone that moved here from Illinois 11 years ago I can only say… are you serious? I can carry a gun in my car, I can carry gun on me in most places. I was arrested in Illinois for no crime other than having a gun in my car. I am supposed to risk all we have because someone wants to carry a gun where liquor is sold? No way. So go ahead…. Vote out all the politicians that have given us the privileges we can purchase. But keep in mind that in this economy gun control is way down on the list of issues that voters care about. The worse the economy gets the more liberal democrats will be elected; that is no good for us. But keep in mind I have absolutely no misconceptions about my rights, where they come from, or how the state of Tennessee feels about them. The state does not recognize the 2nd as an individual right to bear arms and now the SCOTUS has also ruled that way. However…. Buying a privilege is better than the alternative. Memphis will be the downfall of gun issues in Tennessee just as Chicago is in Illinois.

Add the words “THE OWNER OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY†and now it is substantially similar. “Substantially similar†will be determined in this order… the responding Officer, the DA, a Judge or jury. I choose not to play that game. I don’t think we have found a single person that has been arrested anywhere in the state for carrying past a sign, legal or not. So this whole discussion dragging on for thread after thread after thread…. Really just gives us something to discuss when things are slow. And I think unless the state gives them immunity they are faced with making a business decision. This isn’t about guns; it’s about money. They are the only ones with any rights in this situation. We are HCP holders, we bought a privilege from the state that citizens do not have as a right; no rights involved for us. If you had a right to carry we would not be having this discussion. Well certainly you would. But that’s an emotional response and one I doubt you would truly give to someone that could care less about guns or who carries them.

No one can post any facts either way. Fallguy, let’s say that you are an attorney and you are meeting with a client that owns a restaurant. You are discussing slip and fall liability and all that BS, employee issues, etc. Then your client says the following…. What about this gun carrying business in Tennessee? I really don’t have any strong feelings one way or the other about people carrying guns, but is there something I should do to help limit my liability in case someone gets shot in my restaurant? Now… this is no longer a gun control issue. Your client has no strong feelings about it, he isn’t paying you for your personal feelings on it, and he just wants to know what he should do. Your advice could ultimately determine if this guy losses his business or not. How would you respond?

Corn....

Do you understand the intent sign when you see it? When you see a sign that says “No Trespassing” do you need a team of lawyers to explain it to you? Other than some people desperately grasping for some way to do away with a law they don’t agree with; is this even an issue? Has anyone been charged for carrying past a sign? Intent, both in the law itself and in the intent of the person is very important in criminal law, as is state of mind and other factors. You can’t just pitch them aside when reading the written law; you must interpret its intent. If you don’t understand what the sign says or its intent, you can argue that in court. But I wouldn’t want to be the one telling the Judge the wording was not substantially similar and therefore the sign isn’t a legal posting. You may very well win, and then we may have case law on what a legal sign is. But until that happens it could be a costly undertaking carrying past a sign. I mean let’s face it no one here is saying they don’t understand the signs. There is an AG opinion on this, why do you need another one? An AG opinion is not law and will not settle anything. Civil liability is the driving factor on signs. Sure, some may post because of their feelings on guns, but I believe the majority do it to give them some support when they are sued civilly because a shooting took place in their business. We need some legislation that makes business owners exempt from liability, and not like that lame azz exception we have; something with some teeth. Has carrying past a sign ever been to court? Depends. If you get in a fight and the cop decides to charge you with assault and your weapon is seen; you could be charged with aggravated assault, a felony. I’m not getting in a fight with anyone while I’m armed. It’s reckless and puts you and everyone around you in danger.

ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

I’m not missing your point; I’m pointing out that no one in a law school cares what your feelings are. Your grades are important; a debate on the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> in law school is not. Mcurrier is right; it’s about procedure and thought process. They have heard every imaginable argument about the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment as have all of us here. If a Professor wanted me to debate the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment, I would ask him which side he wants me to take because I can do an excellent job with either. I don’t think too many Professors are going to grade a paper based on your opinion. But you seem poised to dispute your grade or call for the firing of a professor if they do. Good luck with that.

Then don’t go into law. You will be required to defend or enforce laws that you do not agree with. Right now it’s about GPA, if someone wants your views they will ask. Making 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment arguments have to be based on law and fact; not your feelings about guns.

If you have the proper barrel, it’s just some minor mods. I wouldn’t do it to a Garand, but then I don’t know what your reasons are for the change. The CMP forum is a great resource. CMP Forums - Powered by vBulletin

The paragraph you quoted pretty much sums it up, I don’t understand what you think is missing. Other than the heated arguments and personal opinions; case law and history is all that would be left. If you believe you have some rights under the 2<SUP>nd</SUP>, you should take the course.

Is this going to be a Remington made here by Remington or just another cheap import with a big name stamped on it?

Restaurants are in the food business, not the business of politics. There are no “Rights†involved here. The state of Tennessee does not recognize HCP as a “Rightâ€. The overwhelming majority of Tennessee residents don’t carry into a restaurant because it is a crime for them to do so. Federal law also does not recognize you being able to carry a gun as a “Rightâ€. They (The Supreme Court) have left it up to the Federal districts and the individual states to determine when, where, and if you can carry. You may not like that, but it is the law and it is not going to change. Only the state of Tennessee can recognize 2nd amendment rights; and they have chosen not to. The SCOTUS has ruled that you have a right to own guns but you do not have a right to bear arms; that determination will be made by the individual states. It’s called States Rights and it is in direct conflict with any other interpretation of the 2nd amendment. We fought a war over states rights; we will never fight a war over the right to bear arms. As long as there is no anti gun signs on the front door, I assume that they support carry. I do not need to see a sign with their support for carrying guns. I also do not need to see signs on their door about their stand on Abortion, the economy, gay rights, the death penalty or the war. I will change my stance on this issue when the state of Tennessee does away with HCP permits and acknowledges carrying a gun as a “Right†for all citizens of the state.

That’s not true. What is being suggested here is a thug mentality. I absolutely refuse to take action against business owners that support us. I also hope that any of those business owners reading this will see that this action will go nowhere and the owner of this forum has stated that he does not support it. This is an emotional reaction to the court ruling the other day that now has some members so upset they can’t tell the good guys from the bad (or don’t care) and are ready to spray and pray with total disregard for any damage they may do.